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Re: A Brief History of the Big East

lowellbrowning — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:55:04 -0000

Couldn't tell ya about WC, lol.

I do know I heard a little smack in the past about UF playing Troy and FSU, from some WVU fans elsewhere.
After Troy winning nine games and Cincy getting owned by the Gators, as well as the FSU team that early on a lot of WVU fans chatted-up about UF playing them in a 'weak' OOC...well, I guess FSU was a better quality opponent than...say, Liberty, LMAO!!!!

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

lowellbrowning — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:47:41 -0000

Nooo, this is not a WVPreps mess and I won't act like the butt here.
This is a great site and there are a lot of thinking sports fans here.

Zac, I can show you several sites where I am the one leading the way for WVU posts, supporting their efforts to upgrade their slate and improve the facilities in Morgantown.
As long as folks would not bash by Gators, I'd show the support that I do have for WVU over on that site, too.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Zac — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:06:18 -0000

OH NOOOO!!!! Mr Bill, I don't think I'm gonna like this. OOOOOOOOO!!!!

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Zac — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:03:45 -0000

Actually, Mr. Browning, the last time WVU played UCF, it wasn't even close, and that wasn't a particularly fantastic year for WVU. What I find interesting is that the Big East was originally interested in UCF; not USF. But, it was USF who stepped forward and showed their commitment to football, and thus won the day.

I think UCF would still be a good choice. They're improving their program, showing more commitment towards it, and would make a solid geographical rivalry for USF. But, that's a subject for another debate.

With regards to the previous post, when was the last time WVU scheduled W Carolina? I think you'll find that a couple of SEC schools have done that.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

lowellbrowning — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:41:30 -0000

Hey Zac,
I read today that the Ohio State vs Marshall game has been moved to a Thursday night.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

lowellbrowning — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:39:19 -0000

Heck, Maybe WVU can beat UCF.
After having lost to USF and FSU, if the powerful Mountaineers can't beat the Knights maybe the can schedule FAM or Bethune-Cookman, lol.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

lowellbrowning — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:36:02 -0000

No Zac.
The lesser-talented teams need the better teams and to get them on the schedule then the lessers, lol, have to travel.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

aVoiceInSC — Thu, 14 May 2009 21:02:31 -0000

Your final statement loses any credibility you may have had prior. Miami likened to a community college or less? That's just absurd, and unfounded. Not to mention for some reason you think that the behavioral antics of the football players has anything to do with the institution's academic reputation and standards. Put down the pipe, and show me some quantifiable proof with actual numbers from a reputable publication like I did. Until then, you're just blowing smoke.

What does Rutgers have to do with any of this? I am glad that you are proud of the State University of New Jersey, and kudos to them for their accomplishment.

I am speaking of conferences and their academic standards. Rutgers is but one single piece of the Big East that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the ACC or its expansion. WVU was considered, but because of its academic reputation, was not extended an offer. I'm not sure if you're trying to pitch the idea of Rutgers being worthy of a target for another conference's expansion, but we're fine without them. Thanks anyway.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Doug Boninsegna — Thu, 14 May 2009 19:47:30 -0000

Clemson_Joe

"Get a grip on reality!"

You must be on another planet or you are grossly prejudicial toward the ACC, but the ACC academic standards as a whole are no where near as high as you claim they are.

Some other ACC fan made the statement that based on the latest US World News rankings, all the ACC schools rank in the top tier. By making that statement, they do a great diservice to the ACC. THEY DID NOT PERFORM A THOROUGH RESEARCH OF THE REORT!!

If you read the fine print of the report on the top schools, that is the methodology the US News used; accademics had very little to do with their rankings. Among other things, their rankings took into consideration the cost of tuition, the number of applicants, even the nightlife among other factors. NONE OF THESE CRITERIA HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ACADEMIC STANDARDS!!

If you want an honest, truthful, and totally objective assesment of the top Universities in Division 1-A, there is only 1 in the entire country. That is the NCAA's APR. I cannot speak for all the schools in the Big East, but, in the three years since using the APR as "THE STANDARD" of all schools participating in Division 1-A athletics, Rutgers has finished in the top ten every year. In fact, their lowest ranking was 6th (2007). Only 1 school in the ACC can make that claim. That is Duke. Not even Vanderbilt has equaled that accomplishment.

In fact, Rutgers is the only state university in the country to finish in the top 50 in 2008. (They finished 4th, tied with Duke.) In 2006, they finished 3rd.

In the past 5 years, Rutgers has had 3 finalists for the Draddy Award. That is the Heisman Trophy for Academics, given to the top college football player, based on academics, community service and performance on the field. One of those 3 finalists won the award, Brian Leonard.

The only other school I can comment about is the ACC's own University of Miami. As far as academic standards, they blow your claim out of the water. Miami has a reputation up and down the east coast, as fielding a team of county jail inmates. As far as their academic standards, Miami is on par with a community college, and that may even be considered an insult to community colleges.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

1Tomcat — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:08:33 -0000

Zac Sept 19 time TBA tickets are not a problem. I look for BU to go bowling next season.They have Wake Forest on the road. Kent state,UConn and Northwestern St at home. They could make a good run next season they have some of their toughest opponents at home Neb, OK st and TTech. The games against OU and ISU both on the road and other than the game @ Norman, their schedule looks pretty good. They embarrassed A&M last year, but Kyle Feild aint a easy place to win at even when the Aggies are down. Other than the Horns & Sooners the Bears could possibly end up winning a few more than in previuos seasons, realistically 7 perhaps 8 wins, which would beat the heck outa 4-8.
BTW the Texas Tech @ Texas game is the same day at 7;00pm CST it will be broadcast nationally on ABC- I'm not going to miss that one payback time

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Zac — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:04:34 -0000

If it's in Sept, get me the exact date (not to mention, the tickets), and I'm there!!!

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

aVoiceInSC — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:10:20 -0000

I agree completely. Penn State should definitely be in the Big East.

However, with that weird half football, half basketball membership thing they've going on, I don't know if that's plausible anymore. Unless of course, they shake up the membership even more and ditch that half an half thing.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

aVoiceInSC — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:03:20 -0000

"Nice! Tier 1 schools--I wonder how many criteria you had to go through before you found a common denominator that fit all the members..."
Really the entire research period consisted of a URL command of "g rankings national universities", <enter>, then 2 clicks. It really took me about 12 seconds. I don't think that's very much criteria to go through. Besides it's been well known for years that all member schools of the ACC fit that criteria, so inherently it wouldn't be difficult to find.

I don't know why there isn't a tier 2. Maybe they think there's enough of a gap there to warrant skipping it. Who knows?

"My point stands though; the academic reputations of the member schools are not in any way shape or form, impacted by the other members' reps."
You're exactly right. They don't. However, for whatever reason, the ACC took academic reputation into account when expanding. When we first started to expand, a lot of students at Clemson, myself included, wanted to know why we weren't considering West Virginia and Louisville. We pounded the president and AD with emails, and they responded by telling us that those 2 schools didn't meet the "all around" criteria that the ACC was looking for, and that included academics. Duke was cited as being one of the major opponents to adding WVU or Louisville in the email. That was a long time ago, and I do not still have the email, so I cannot show you. I do remember it well, however, as it was a common topic for conversation around the bars at school during the offseason.

"...or the "top tier", as you conveniently re-phrased it"
The site itself links to it with "Top Schools". Is "top tier" that far off on a tiered ranking system?

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

TampaGator — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:09:06 -0000

Nice! Tier 1 schools--I wonder how many criteria you had to go through before you found a common denominator that fit all the members...

Couldn't help but notice that there isn't even a Tier 2 though. 130 schools in Tier 1 (or the "top tier", as you conveniently re-phrased it), then straight to Tier 3--quite a disctinction.

That said, ok, perhaps "...who do NOT command any respect whatsoever..." was bit harsh--even inaccurate.

My point stands though; the academic reputations of the member schools are not in any way shape or form, impacted by the other members' reps.

b/t/w: ALL of the SEC schools are members of an even more elite group than the 130 member "Tier 1" criterium you mentioned: They are all members of Division I (n/k/a FBS division)--comprised of a slightly more selective 119 members. ;)

GO GATORS!!

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

aVoiceInSC — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:11:25 -0000

First I'd like to start with a breakdown of the conference in natonal rankings. Feel free to check my reference here.
8. Duke (private)
23. Virginia
28. Wake Forest (private)
30. North Carolina
34. Boston College (private)
35. Georgia Tech
51. Miami (private)
53. Maryland
61. Clemson
71. Virginia Tech
83. NC State
102. Florida State

Every single one of our schools rank in the top tier in the national university rankings. There is only one other top conference that can claim that. However, West Virginia does not. Your opinion isn't really relevant here because the ACC would not consider WVU or any other school not in the top tier for that reason. At the time it was well documented around our campuses. On that same note, the Big Televen is often mentioned by pundits for expanding, and I know they will not expand unless it means adding one more top tier school. Both conferences take great pride in the fact that all of their member institutions rank very well nationally.

"...you oughtn't flatter yourself to think that Clemson is on par academically with Duke/WF/BC..., simply because they play one another in hoops, FB, etc."
Like it or not, Clemson is the 22nd ranked national public university in the country.
"...with the likes of Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Virginia Tech, who do NOT command any respect whatsoever, academically? " I'm sorry if you think that equates to commanding no respect whatsoever academically, but you may be alone with that opinion.

By the way, I never said that Clemson was on par with Duke, Wake Forest, or Boston College. Clemson isn't far behind them, but then again, it's tough to find many public institutions that can outrank strong private institutions such as the ones you mentioned.

When the ACC was expanding, it was the university presidents who went and toured the potential new members' campuses, not the ADs. The presidents were looking into the academic reputations of the other schools before they placed their votes. All of the schools that were looked into had the athletic reputation to join the conference, so that was a non issue at that point. The bottom line is not all conferences only care about athletics, and the ACC and the Big Televen are 2 of them.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

1Tomcat — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:39:25 -0000

Zac Floyd Casey in Waco hasn't sold out in years after 3-9 and 4-8 seasons there are usually plenty of tickets available- Last years game between UConn & BU was televised nationally.
We attended the Texas A&M game there last year and about 45,000 in a stadium that holds 50,000- usually the A&M game has the biggest crowd.
I'm not sure of the exact date- sometime in Sept- hopefully not the same date as Texas Tech @ Texas

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Zac — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:09:21 -0000

By God, TC, if you can come up with tickets, I'll find a way to come down and join ya. So long it's before Oct 23, and isn't the same weekend of Oct 3rd, I think a visit to Waco just might be do-able. Glad you enjoyed the article, TC. Thanks!!!

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Zac — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:05:14 -0000

Thanks for the props & constructive criticism. You're right. The Big East has more or less cornered the market on the Thursday night games. I have to admit that one of my favorites was Louisville at Rutgers (2006). The Knights were down at the half, but were within reach; not only clawed their way back, and shut down one of the most potent offenses that we'd seen in the 2nd half, but as you pointed out, it was one of those Thursday night games won in the final minutes. Quite the come-back story, if you ask me.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

1Tomcat — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:04:40 -0000

Zac -Congrats on you first thread-good read and interesting imput from others. I will try to attend one BigE game next season- UConn @ BU in Waco. The Bears gave them a great game last year and this year they have them at home.These are the kind of matchups are what the fans want to see. Good luck to your Moutaineers Adios Tomcat

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

TampaGator — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:20:27 -0000

Zac:

Great article. However, I couldn't help but miss one significant omission in your coverage of the BE--where I think you kinda' short changed the BE, at least in terms of recent history--the Thursday night games (maybe upsets is more accurate)--but ESPN's Thursday night games involving the BE have made for many an "instant classic," beginning with the Pitt-WVU game you mentioned.

I'll agree, the BE is still kinda' reelin from the defections to the ACC, still kinda' lookin' for an identitiy--but those Thursday night games have pretty much been their identitiy of late. I've lost count of how many times I counted on NOT watching the thursday night game, then got sucked in because the drama of those games was irresistable.

Again, beyond the that--which admittedly isn't necessary to your article abuot BE's history (just thought it would have been a good additional)--great read!

GO GATORS!!

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

TampaGator — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:53:53 -0000

Rhetorical question: why would Duke, Wake Forest, UNC, BC and UVA, who have excellent academic reputations, risk tarnishing their respective reps by associating with the likes of Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Virginia Tech, who do NOT command any respect whatsoever, academically?

Answer: Because there is no more risk of tarnishment to those schools' reputation, than there is benefit to the schools of questionable repute, for competing in ATLETIC events against those schools.

In other words, it's pure folly to think that membership in an ATHLETIC conference will have any bearing whatsoever, on one's academic reputation. The academic reputations of members of an ATHLETIC conference have virtually ZERO effect on the academic reputations of the other members. None. Zilch...zero...NADA!!!

The ACC is an ATHLETIC conference--secondary to being a PROFITABLE VENTURE among the member institutions. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, if the ACC starts having spelling B tourneys, I may have to re-evaluate this assessment. Until then...

...you oughtn't flatter yourself to think that Clemson is on par academically with Duke/WF/BC..., simply because they play one another in hoops, FB, etc.

GO GATORS!!

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

aVoiceInSC — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:33:50 -0000

Sarcasm, buddy.

You are now contradicting your own point.

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

4cornerz — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:33:37 -0000

FSU dominated the ACC until the Big 3 came

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Porcine — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:20:13 -0000

Almost heaven . . ..

Re: A Brief History of the Big East

Zac — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:39:20 -0000

Actually, CJ, it isn't a question of entrance standards. It's a question of WV state law. A statute exists, which directs any state school to allow entry of any prospective student with a 2.0 GPA or better (4.0 scale). Only non-residents are more scrutinized, as state schools are required to maximize the non-resident portion of their student population to 30%.

West Virginia also depends a great deal upon the use and sale of coal. Well, WV has a law which places a $0.075 surcharge on every KW of electricity sold outside the state. Given WV has no nuke plants, and given all the coal fired plants they do have, have you any idea as to the impact that law has placed upon coal production; not to mention, the state's economy?

WV really is a beautiful place. It's one of this country's best kept secrets. When my wife is ready to retire (I certainly will have by that time.) we hope to move back there. Sadly, they have some stupid people running the state. Eh, ya takes da good wit da bad.