Fanblogs.com - Latest Comments in BCS Complaint Department

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Ben Prather — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:50:13 -0000

Replying to this comment in a place it can be read.

I have greatly expanded the original concept hashed out be Regan and I to be a significant BCS reform.

My expanded idea would be to make the BCS the governing body for the bowls, charged with assigning prestige to the bowls and conferences and increasing the consensus of the national champion, instead of an agreement between the bowls. The bowls have proven they can't govern themselves and the NCAA refuses to make a stand.

I like the three criteria used to measure the conferences. I would propose establishing three tiers of conferences, elite, automatic qualifier and at large. The cutoffs for each would by 0.75 and 0.5 respectively using values like these.

Whether a conference is elite or if an at large conference warrants an automatic qualificatrion would be evaluated every year. Automatic qualifications would be evaluted every time a conference's BCS Bowl tie in hosted the national title. This way if a conference earns BCS status they know they have it at least until their BCS tie in comes around again.

This also allows for BCS bowls to be determined. They are the ones with tie ins to the conferences with automatic qualifications. Every time a BCS bowl hosts the NCG its conference tie ins would be evaluated for BCS automatic qualifications and if it no longer has a tie in with an automatic qualifying conference the bowl would lose its BCS status (becoming a premier bowl). If a conference without a BCS Bowl tie in earned a BCS automatic qualification its premier bowl would become a BCS bowl and that bowl would be added to the end of the current national championship cycle.

This would provide an incentive for the bowls to compete for the tie ins with the stronger conferences. It also allowes the conferences and bowls to work out their tie ins in their mutual best interest, no rules forcing any bowls to take any teams they don't want. The complaints that the at large conferences need to be included in the revenue sharing is handled by their participation in the championship system, not by shoe horning them into a BCS bowl.

If this was done, the Big 12 could, for example, simply change its tie in to the Cotton Bowl and the Cotton Bowl would then become a BCS bowl (after the tie in has been used once without BCS status). The Fiesta Bowl would remain a BCS bowl until the next time it hosted the national championship game, when it would lose its BCS status unless it securred a tie in with an automatic qualifying conference.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

oldenglish — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:42:33 -0000

No offense, but trying to decipher these plans some people devise, with their ratios, fractions, plus ones, etc. frankly gives me a headache.

I think the first thing that needs to be done, is to eliminate the "elite" conferences as decision-making entities as to whom gets the privilege of playing in the big-money bowl games or for the "title".

Second, eliminate automatic conference bids - and especially, eliminate Notre Dame's "special" status.

Next, no polls - including pre-season polls, which are no more than beauty contests - until week 5 of the season. You see the same names at the top of the pre-season rankings year after year. All it accomplishes is that it sets an unfair pecking order based on absolutely nothing relevant to the current season. It also makes it impossible for surprise teams to climb to the top. One team was undefeated this year - Utah. Do you suppose had Utah been ranked, oh, let's say #5 in pre-season (rather than Wisconsin, who finished 7-6) that pre-season #28 Utah might have been ranked higher than #7 after an undefeated season, and could only climb to #2 after thrashing Alabama?
I say week 5 for the first poll, because that's the week teams generally have finished beating up on cupcakes, and start their conference schedules. I would penalize teams for playing lower division teams, so there's no way a Florida State enters week 3 ranked #24 after outscoring two D-1AA teams (who ended up a combined 4-20) by 115-7.

Just like giving high school players five, four or however many stars, pre-season rankings based on what you did last year and who you are, are meaningless. UM signed the #1 offensive player - Kyle Wright - and the #1 defensive player - Willie Williams - several years back. Anybody know where they are today? Meanwhile, this kid could be the 1st pick this year, and certainly top 5. Notice the "NR" next to his position rank?

http://miami.scout.com/a.z?...

You say: "Im just adamantly against a True Playoff because of what it would mean to the Regular Season."

I'm guessing you're going to use the argument that playoffs make the regular season "meaningless"? Nothing could be further from the truth. A team still would need to finish in the top 16 to make the playoffs, which means you still have to try to win all your games, which - last time I played - was what we did every week anyway, regardless of where it might have placed us in the rankings. One thing is still pretty consistent, if you lose games, you usually drop in the rankings; to move up, you have to keep winning.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Porcine — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:14:12 -0000

I have seen both blobs.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Cougar_Fan — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:26:07 -0000

Fair enough. I can accept that.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:36:37 -0000

I'm only 29 (never wanted to turn 30; been 29 for a few years now), but I remember the Blob.

I agree that the BCS is flawed, skewed, and in need of change. Im just adamantly against a True Playoff because of what it would mean to the Regular Season.

Ben Prather and I have a decent plan up on one of these threads, check it out if you're interested.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

oldenglish — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:42:45 -0000

Thanks...no harm, no foul. I just don't see the current BCS setup as being in anybody's best interest other than the six "elite" conferences and Notre Dame. And with the obscene amounts of money ESPN and Fox throw at it, it's too late - even if there was the desire - to stop it. It's like the "Blob" if you're old enough to remember that movie.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:46:43 -0000

Not trying to be pompous. The issues are very complex, much moreso than I had a clue before I actually read up on how many "powers that be" there are.

Besides, it is always in everyones' best interests to truly understand the issues, right? That's all I'm saying.

On a political note, I liked GWB, and still do. That's a whole different bird, however.

You are right about your opinions, and I apologize if you got the impression I was attacking you personally for not sharing mine. I tend to be sarcastic sometimes.

I'll join you on the Miami cheers, though...

Re: BCS Complaint Department

oldenglish — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:24:26 -0000

Why is it that some human beings are so presumptuous as to pompously assume that because someone disagrees with his point of view, that that person is uninformed, and needs to "familiarize yourself with the issues at hand"?

Confidence and self-assuredness are wonderful traits. But when they cross the line into out-of-hand dismissal of others as having no intelligence or credibility, simply because they don't agree with your view, they smack of haughty arrogance.

We just suffered through eight years of a president/self-proclaimed decider, who dismissed (and fired) everybody who didn't agree with him. I argued (on the issues at hand) that he was wrong for eight years. Some insist to this day - as does he - that he was never wrong. All I know for sure is that this country is in far worse shape after eight years of him telling us he knew what was best for us all, than it was before he was appointed.

But back to the point. I don't know if I'm right in my opinion of the BCS, but I know it's my opinion. And as someone who has been a fan of college football for about 50 years, I believe my opinion that the BCS is unfair, corrupt and discriminatory is well thought out. But I'm also not foolish enough to think that my opinion matters a hill of beans to the self-anointed "elites" who devised and run the BCS. All I can do is pull for WVU and the Miami Hurricanes, hope they do well, and hope that they get a fair shake if ever they find themselves in position to contend for the title at the end of the season.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

War_Eagle_Atlanta — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:18:36 -0000

Only a little thing called the Sherman Anti-Trust Act...

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:24:10 -0000

True Capitalism is as dangerous as True Communism.

Wal-Mart, by definition, is an American success story, just like Microsoft.

In a True Capitalism, though, nothing would stop Wal-Mart from cornering the market and causing massive Barriers to Entry, which leads inexorably to Monopolistic behavior.

If Wal-Mart wasn't so aggressive in running other industries wholesale out of business, there would be no problem.

In concept, you're spot on. Due to the circumstances, however...

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:19:55 -0000

Fair enough. Just familiarize yourself with the issues at hand before going after others' points. Things are the way they are for a reason, and simply attacking them without a basis for reference isn't helpful.

We all want changes to the system, I want to ensure that changes are positive...

Re: BCS Complaint Department

oldenglish — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:58:03 -0000

And you don't know me.

You have your opinion, Stewart Mandel has his, I have mine. I assure you, mine will not be swayed by anything you or Stewart Mandel pontificate about the wisdom and correctness of the BCS. That's just the way it is. Doesn't mean I'm right, doesn't mean you're right. So don't try to be cute in attacking me for having MY opinion - one that doesn't jive with yours.

But if you choose to attack me personally for having a strong opinion that runs counter to yours - which you did - don't be surprised when I fire back.

Since you asked, I have only written two books, neither of which, I'm near certain, would appeal to you. They're not chock full of statistics, winning percentages and numbers, and are not geared to the shallow-minded, jock-sniffing type, Not saying that's what you are, just making a general observation. So you're no doubt correct in your opinion about Stewart Mandel being much more accomplished than I - at least for your taste and your mentality. As I said, college football is not that important to me any more, and - for me - that is due in large measure to the BCS and it's pig-headed defenders.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:18:38 -0000

oldenglish, you do not know me. Making insinuations of my "needing to get a life" because I disagree with you is not...constructive.

Some people just disagree with you. That's life. Just because I do does not mean I benefit in any way from the BCS.

If you actually look at my posts, you will see that I believe the BCS needs fixing too; I just don't want a playoff.

You can see CFB in any way you choose, but by automatically drawing conclusions about others' points and bashing them personally is neither helpful or (if I may speak for my fellow Fanbloggers) wanted.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

oldenglish — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:21:40 -0000

Those who continue to champion the corrupt BCS either work in some capacity for the self-proclaimed "elite" conferences and profit financially, or they have a vote to determine who gets to play. With you, it could be you're Stewart Mandel's mother or boyfriend.

You need to get a life instead of throwing around such profound terms as "complex issues" and "chaotically grip" and "debating logical points" to describe a game. It's really not that important to me. The greedy bastards at ESPN, Fox Sports, BCS and the "elite" conferences have ruined college football as far as I'm concerned.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:45:49 -0000

Of course it isn't - because you said so. You have written twice as many books, right? Why bother debating logical points if you can name-call and dismiss reasonable points out of hand?

How many books have you written? The guy did the research, and stated it as it is.

As far as attempting to take quotes out of context, I'd give you an A+. Mandel is on the "Plus-One" Bandwagon. While I don't believe a straight-up Plus-One is the best system, I at least can recognize that he has a grasp of the complex issues and wide range of viewpoints that chaotically grip the sport and has explained them with great detail.

It IS complicated; but feel free to stay in imaginationland....

Re: BCS Complaint Department

1Tomcat — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:23:03 -0000

I really dont understand-how did #3 team fail or #4 or #5 for that matter?
Utah,Texas and USC all won their bowls and nerver had a shot at a Champ game and the Mythical B-12 champ/chump lost theirs as usual
Hookem Horns 5 consecutive bowl wins-including 3 BCS Bowls 2 Rose 1 Feista
8 consecutive 10+ win seasons

Re: BCS Complaint Department

oldenglish — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:18:39 -0000

It's not complicated at all. I don't need to read a book written by a guy who never wore a jock-strap in his life - Stewart Mandel - but who has a vote to TELL us who the best teams are. Stewart Mandel is part of the problem. Stewart Mandel - as would most sports writers who vote to TELL us who the best teams are - is as consistent with his opinions as a fart in a windstorm. I'm sure it has nothing to do (tongue in cheek) with any special favors and treatment by the "elite" conferences and teams he's paid to cover and report on (and then vote for).

Tell me, when is the last time you heard any whining and moaning from DII or DIII coaches about the process they use to crown a true champion?

“You’ll have to forgive me if I’m in no hurry to see the Fiesta Bowl turn into the ‘NCAA Southwest Regional.’”
Stewart Mandel - Dec. 30, 2008

“Obviously, the one certain way to increase interest in such games would be the inception of a playoff.”
Stewart Mandel - Jan. 4, 2009

Re: BCS Complaint Department

grover — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:04:56 -0000

I probably went a little over the top with my post, but personally I don't want to see any expansion of the post season. 4 teams is too many for me. I did see your link. Quite well put together like all you do.

"Anytime the difference between #2 and #3 came down to a few computers the system failed." - I guess that's the core of my disagreement. In these cases the system did not fail, the number #2 and #3 teams failed.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Ben Prather — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:28:56 -0000

Maybe what we need is a stronger BCS.

And this from a Utah fan...

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Ben Prather — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:11:34 -0000

You attack like I want a large playoff. You obviously did not look at the content in my link.

Playoffs? So we can get the certainty of the NFL?

Any year a team ends the season undefeated and not the champion the BCS failed.
Anytime the difference between #2 and #3 came down to a few computers the system failed.

Given the task of setting the top 2 teams in a bowl game the BCS has done an admirable job in good faith to get that task done.

To select two teams that are decidedly #1 and #2 after the regular season the way it is scheduled is an impossible task.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:38:28 -0000

You honestly think it is that simple...

Okay...there's a book by Stewart Mandel called "Bowls, Polls, and Tattered Souls"

(http://www.amazon.com/Bowls...

Get this book, and read the first chapter, so you have an idea of how unbelievably complex the issue is...seriously...it is NOT a quick-fix....

Re: BCS Complaint Department

Regan — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:35:34 -0000

oldenglish, we have hashed out and shot down most of these things over the course of this and the previous Playoff Thread.

Bowls cannot effectively be worked into a 16-team playoff. It just won't won't work.

You seem convinced that the "powers that be" are intent on 'not doing the right thing', but have you taken much time to actually look at why things are the way they are?

No matter what, there are so many issues, points-of-view, and vested interests in so many strata of CFB, one simple "one-size-fits all" simply cannot and will not solve the problems.

Regardless, as has been discussed repeatedly, a Playoff will merely switch one set of gripes for another, and CFB will lose a lot in the translation.

Re: BCS Complaint Department

1Tomcat — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:45:29 -0000

Thanks Ron Na cant run for office, too many skeletons in too many closets.
I have a confession to make. Had to get my eyes checked and order eyewear before the New Year. In a town bout 21 miles away from here two eye doctors and two eye glasses places one accepts my insurance and the other is outside my network- ya you guessed it
My eyeglasses came from wallyworld made in China- no doubt, so now I can blame the big industrial mega giants for my poor eyesight on top of everything else- can't help but laugh
What made it worse was I had to come up with some outa pocket money and wait to get reinbursed- dang rip off insurance companies
God Bless America

Re: BCS Complaint Department

1Tomcat — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:26:11 -0000

Grover #1 win every game and your in the NC game- would it not be better for say an OSU to schedule N ILL or Bowling Green instead of Texas and or USC, Had OSU not scheduled that USC game,they woulda had an arguement for an appearance, same goes for Bama if the belonged to a Conference without a CCg game like Pac-10,Big E or B 10/11.
A big playoff will not happen anytime soon, no need to worry about the loss of importance of the regular season.We have seen teams go undefeated and win their bowls and not be considered and other years seen two loss teams in the MNC game, when others were just as good if not better. All conferences ought to adopt the same system for determining a Conf Champ and CCG games should be played in every conference or eliminated-period
Some conferences may have a four loss team as their champ, while others may have several good 1 loss teams as was the case this season prior to the CCG games and Bowls.
1 loss PSU
1 loss USC
1 loss Fla
1 loss OU
1 loss Tex
0 loss Utah
0 loss Bama
0 loss Bois st
1 loss TTech
that adds up to 9 so we could argue over who's # 8 or #9 instead of who's #2, or #3,
this would not diminiss the importance of the regular season and if the positions are based upon some SOS arguement will could still see some exciting OOC matchups.
With games scheduled years in advance, some of these exciting matchups are not quite what the fans or the media deemed too important, because some teams have better years than others as was the case with the Tex vs Ark game- heck before the season started that looked like a better matchup that TCU vs OU, so the trend will be Sunbelts & C-USA games during OOC games because with the current system run up the score and post big numbers and even if you drop one to an arch rival your still in the MNC game

Re: BCS Complaint Department

grover — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:48:20 -0000

Why are you all so worried about certainty? The current system works. Think about all you lose in your post. In it you lose Oklahoma - Boise St in 2006. Because it happened the way it did you will remember that game for 20 years. Also in 2006 you would include Michigan. Why bother watching / playing Ohio State - Michigan at the end of that year? You think people would give a rip if all it determined was seeding? If you had a 16 team playoff any you had OK - TX - Fla - LSU - USC all playing each other every year, then everything else in college football would fall by the wayside - none of the rest of it would matter. There would be nothing special about Ohio State and Texas playing in September. No big deal if Florida lost to Auburn - they can always make it up in the playoff.

The current system works, and has worked every year except 2004. Here is the system in a nutshell:
1a. Win every game and you are in the national title game (SEC, Big 12, Pac 10, Big 10, ACC)
1b. Win every game for 2 years and you are the title game (all other conferences)
2. Lose a game and you are at the mercy of others. Even if you make it to the NC game and win, your season is empty and meaningless in my book.

The BCS has produced some very special things - OSU-Miami in 2002, TX-USC in 2005, Boise St-OK in 2006. Odds are everyone reading this thread can recall with clarity details of Texas's 2005 season including winning a competitive game at OSU. You would not remember any of that if there was a large playoff. Ask yourself this - do you remember who won the basketball title last year? How about 2 or 5 years ago? Would you remember a Duke #1 vs UNC #2 matchup that occurred in Feb 2005? Same questions for the NFL. Odss are you remember things with a lot more clarity in college football over a longer period of time because there are less games, and when games with significance happen it is rare enough that you pay attention and you therefore keep that memory with you,

Long live the BCS!