Fanblogs.com: BCS hearing at the Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights
Cougar_Fan
· 5 months ago
Ok I'm a BYU/MWC fan, but this hole Capitol Hill hearings business is embarrassing. Let the MWC have a chance to be consistently great over a few more seasons before you start pulling out all the heavy artillery in DC.
laplajo1
· 5 months ago
Since the advent of the BCS, southern teams are dominating the national championship picture. That's the only reason congress wants to investigate the BCS. Funny how congress did not have a problem under the old system when deserving southern teams were denied the national championship in favor of teams that played for a tie, didn't go to bowls to defend their number one ranking, didn't play anybody, etc.
fosterkeats
· 5 months ago
What a bunch of complete CRAP!!!
Look at the final regular season coaches' poll, NONE of the coaches in the MOUNTAIN WEST CONFERENCE votede Utah higher than 5th, even the Utes' coach voted HIS OWN TEAM 4th...
The same whining and crying came from the Georgia State Legislature 2 season ago, but did you hear a peep out of them after Florida beat their precious Dawgs by 40???
So just drop it...
Zac
· 4 months ago
IF our government has determined there are legal grounds to investigating the BCS over alleged Anti Trust Law violations, AND IF said investigation reveals the BCS is guilty of having violated Anti Trust Laws, that's one thing, and is all well and good.
HOWEVER, IF our government intends to investigate the BCS with regards to how teams in a given conference are determined BCS Bowl worthy, OR intends to impose the criteria with which teams and their conferences are determined to be BCS Bowl worthy, OR intends to impose a Div-1 play-off system, WE DO NOT WANT IT!!!
Hear me! This is not the type of legislation with which we want our government involved, at least not if you're hoping to wake up in Russia some day (or a reasonable facsimile there-of). I've said it at least a dozen times in other threads. IF our government gets involved with this kind of legislation, there's no legislation from which you can keep them. They WILL get involved in every aspect of our lives, until a Big Brother state is finally established. I'm with Foster on this one, except we also need to tell this "Congressional Committee" to DROP IT NOW!!!
Regan
· 4 months ago
I would rather have a 64-team playoff than to have politicians legislating who does what in CFB. Yes, you heard correctly.
Zac
· 4 months ago
In both agreement & contrast to you, Regan, I'd rather scrap the BCS and not have any play-off at all, as opposed to having our government run college football. They don't belong there. Besides, there are far more important things for them to be worrying about than which teams play in what bowl, or how they're ranked. When Congress shows me they can shore up the economy, balance the budget, quell the rising costs of health care, fuel prices, & education; not to mention, treat our veterans much better than they have, maybe then will I consider them worthy of messing with college football. AND at that, it's a BIG "MAYBE!!!"
fosterkeats
· 4 months ago
Danny Noonan: "I've gotta go to college, I've just gotta..." Ty Webb: "Oh, Danny, this isn't Russia............. This isn't Russia is it???" Danny: "No..." Ty: "Good..."
Not that I am not interested in a new college football postseason format, but is now a really good time (if there ever is one) for the SENATE to be looking into this?
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
Technically the senate did not, it was a subcommittee of the judiciary committee on anti-trust. This makes far more sense than the house hearing.
With only one senator of the 10 person committee present their was not a quorum to even make an official recommendation.
JB
· 4 months ago
Ok, thanks for clearing it up. I thought it was the whole Senate, i just scanned the article
SouthernSecond
· 4 months ago
I don't know if everyone here is pro-BCS or anti-government (or both), but it looks like I'm the only one who is glad that Congress is looking into this. I think sometimes it takes action like this to draw attention to an issue. For example, did MLB do anything about the use of performance enhancing drugs before the congressional hearings?
The BCS consistently picks the wrong #2 team. I welcome anything that can make the system better (cough, cough - playoffs).
JB
· 4 months ago
Would the 'wrong number 2' be Florida in 06 or LSU in 07? because i think they were both the right team to be there, dont you?
Regan
· 4 months ago
Well Said...
SouthernSecond
· 4 months ago
Hey, I'm not saying the BCS always gets it wrong, but consistently enough to make it a system in need of change. Texas vs. USC was one of the best games I've ever seen. But for every one of those, there's a USC vs. Oklahoma and a Miami vs. Nebraska. And any system that's touted to pick a single #1 and still results in two #1's is flawed.
Regan
· 4 months ago
The BCS was implemented solely for one thing: to have the top two teams playing each other for the NC. It certainly hasn't been up to the task in most years (as you pointed out), but it certainly doesn't make things worse than they were prior to 1998. The notion of subjectivity is also difficult to overcome.
Could things be better? Of course. Could they be worse? You have no idea...
ksuwild
· 4 months ago
2006... Maybe, but I don't think Florida (or Ohio St.) were head and shoulders above the other teams who finished in the top 7 that year.
2007 was not clear cut by any means and the fact that LSU beat Ohio St. in the NC does not mean they were the best team in the nation that year IMO.
2007 final BCS standings:
1. LSU (60) 12-2 1,620 2. Georgia (3) 11-2 1,515 3. USC (1) 11-2 1,500 4. Missouri 12-2 1,347 (before the B12 Championship 12-1) 5. Ohio State 11-2 1,346 6. West Virginia 11-2 1,342 7. Kansas (1) 12-1 1,303
JB
· 4 months ago
I agree, my point was simply that two of te last three nationa championship games (idk about last year) were won by the #2 team in the game
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
Technically it is 3 of the last 3, wasn't Oklahoma #1 and Florida #2?
Three of the last three #2 teams beat the #1 team. non-BCS teams are 3-1 all time in BCS bowls.
The premises of the BCS are flawed.
JB
· 4 months ago
I wasnt sure about this past season as far as the BCS seedings. But i agree, we dont necessarily need a playoff but the BCS sucks
Regan
· 4 months ago
ksuwild, if you remember, 2006 was the year where OHST and MICH went undefeated down to their #1 vs. #2 matchup, with "Game of the Century" hype, etc. An unusually large number of people thought a rematch was in order because those were the 'best two teams', etc. The issues with 2006 circled around the notion of a Conference Championship - The Big Ten had 3x teams in the Top 6, and the SEC had 2x teams in the Top 4.
I'd have to say you're right (in retrospect) about the top 7 in 2006, but I think that it was the Conference Championship notion that won out over all.
As far as 2007 goes, there is only one word that can properly convey how bizarre it was; it begins with cluster....
Once more, the Conference Championship notion carried the day, although I am still disgusted at the idea of a 2-loss national champion...
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
I totally agree with the last few lines of your post. Cluster... and the notion of a two loss Champion- giving the parity some sort of champioship bowl series would have been in order- notice I tryed to avoid the other word-LOL
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
My submitted proposal avoids the "P" word unless I am quoting a coach.
We definitely need an improved championship system with an improved game structure, whatever that may turn out to be.
SouthernSecond
· 4 months ago
Also, I should have been more clear. I didn't necessarily mean the #2 team going into the game. I meant to say that the BCS consistently fails to find the two best teams for the title game (as evidenced by the fact that the two teams in the title game finished #1 and #2 in both polls only three times in eleven tries). Most of the time, the BCS finds the best team (#1 or #2 going into the game), but it hardly ever finds the second best team.
JB
· 4 months ago
ahhhh, i see, much better said
Regan
· 4 months ago
Well, without going into political issues, a government that wants to control Health Care, the Financial Sector, the Auto Sector, and virtually every other aspect of daily life disturbs me greatly.
Trusting such a government with our beloved greatest sport in the history of civilization? Not even at gunpoint.
And once more, Playoffs would ruin College Football.
thebuckstopshere
· 4 months ago
Right.....
I mean what in the hell would we do if we couldn’t argue about SOS, conference superiority, and the like? Half the crap we talk about would become irrelevant with a playoff system. I love all the controversy that's what makes it so compelling, even in the middle of the off season. If you enjoy Fanblogs year around then say NO to playoffs.
Ramblin' Gator
· 4 months ago
Right...
Because all those other sports in the world that have playoff systems garner no debate or interest of any kind.
thebuckstopshere
· 4 months ago
I’m sure they do, obviously. However my point is this; playoffs, if forced upon college football, would ultimately lead to less discussion and debate as a result of less controversy. At least that's my opinion.
I'm a big NBA fan but as soon as the Finals are over there's not much to talk about. Need proof? The biggest thing being talked about on B-ball blogs is Slam Gate. That league has to rely on scandals in the off season to hold fans interest......
By the way LeBron is not a crook....
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
Wait...
How would a playoff ruin SOS and conference superiority discussions?
I could see how recent performances might suggest it would put the BIG 10 at a disadvantage, but not ruin the conversation.
thebuckstopshere
· 4 months ago
Of course this would depend on the system, but I feel any traditional playoff system would be hard pressed to have SOS and conference superiority be larger factors than they are NOW, when it comes to seeding teams….. If you WERE to make these factors a main component.... then I fail to see how any real change has been accomplished. The results would still be based in PERCEPTION.
Regan
· 4 months ago
Regansaywha? Are we doing this? Now? A Playoff Throwdown in July? It's a bit late in the year, but I can go to the arsenal if we need to...
Somewhere, I sense that ksuwild is thinking the same thing.... :)
Ramblin' Gator
· 4 months ago
Well stated. Though I'm not sure that the fans of schools that didn't get a title shot (e.g. Utah, Auburn) would agree that the value of controversy and debate outweighs the value of a well-earned chance at the championship.
I certainly hope LeBron is not a crook - he's the most exciting roundballer on the court today.
Zac
· 4 months ago
He's not a crook; he's a cheater. Just ask the little doll on those Mt Dew (or is it Sprite) commercials. Maybe it's 7-Up...
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
This has been hashed out on here many times Using the current BCS rankings-or whatever to determine the teams Top 8 teams only- now you still have debates and contraversy Now we can all argue over who' 8 and who's 9 everybody is happy and everybody gets a legit shot at a true champoinship as opposed to the Mythical National champion-which is what exist today-will teams still be left out-Yes-will it be fair- probably not 100%- no- but it would be a lot better than the current system-Yes The BCS was formed as an improvement over the old system. I'm not in favor of any goverenment intervention, but lets face the facts- Not all teams have a fair shot and millions of dollars are at stake. Look no further than 2008 were FL & OU the two best teams? Maybe the folks at ESPN convinced yall, but they didn't convince me, there's a lot of room for doubt. What if the 08 game featured USC vs Utah ? well why not? or a Texas vs Florida Take the top 8 teams= 4 big bowls= Huge revenue The season does not need to be extended-that arguement dosn't wash next round two huge bowls= Huge revenue One Big true Champ game= Nat Champ-biggest game in history Those other 112 teams that didn't make it- can participate in the other remaining bowl games With this system described- I'm just adding two extra games Many teams have a 6 or 7 week break between the last game and their bowl-like B-10/11 or Pac-10 teams
Ramblin' Gator
· 4 months ago
Wow! For not going into political issues, you got pretty political, Regan!
If I were going to start a totalitarian regime, I would take control of the most successful businesses and organizations in the country. I certainly wouldn't pay money to acquire a controlling stake of the .03% of GDP businesses that are currently failing and would drag the economy further down if they failed, but that's just me!
Whether we like it or not, the BCS is a monopoly. Contrary to popular opinion, monopolies are not illegal, but they do draw the scrutiny of government regulators and they are well within their rights to examine the BCS to determine if any anti-trust laws have been broken. As far as I know, the BCS has not done anything to prevent a competing organization or structure to evolve and replace it, so the BCS has violated no laws, IMO.*
*I am not an attorney, but I play one on TV.
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
You probably stayed at Holiday Inn
Ramblin' Gator
· 4 months ago
LOL - thanks, that line works better!
Regan
· 4 months ago
Guilty. Sorry, I get almost as cantankerous about what is happening in Washington nowadays as I do about CFB's post-season, but I've always tried to not go into all that with yall; I come here to talk about CFB and escape having to think about what's been happening in Congress, etc.
I'm an Economics guy; I can't help it...
I disagree with the notion that the BCS is a monopoly, although I do agree with everything else you mentioned about it. The BCS isn't even really an organization. The quickest (yet flawed) comparison is to equate the BCS with a measurement system agreed upon by all parties that sign it.
I think what you're focusing on is the "Barriers to Entry" aspect of a Monopoly; if that's the case, you're spot on as things stand now on practical grounds, because we all know the Big Ten and Pac-10 could ignore the rest of the nation and do their own thing. They have the power to do so, but practically, they wouldn't.
Ramblin' Gator
· 4 months ago
Likewise, mea culpa. I should set up a parallel blog site for political debate as a destination when it starts here: polblogs.com.
I see what you mean about the BCS being a measurement system, but I still feel that the BCS is a monopoly. Is there an alternative "measurement system" FBS teams can utilize to reach a championship game? Does the BCS require contracts with schools and conferences assuring they don't jump to an alternative measurement system inside of term?
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
I disagree that Playoffs would ruin College Football.
I agree that government mandated playoffs would bankrupt the sport.
Regan
· 4 months ago
Yeah, that's just my default response to the word "Playoffs" when it is used alone and thus, expressed in very generalized terms. I guess the reason is that I want to see whether someone actually cares enough to look at the situation genuinely or is just casually spouting off about Playoffs because CFB is different from the other sports and they don't understand why.
And government doing anything would bankrupt anything right now. Dadgummit, RG called me on politics once already...sorry...
fosterkeats
· 4 months ago
So if TCU goes 12-0 and can only play Southern Cal in the Fiesta Bowl, how long will it take the state of Texas legislature to start the now-yearly "Whine About the BCS" bullsh*t???
Oh, wait, no one in Texas outside of suburban Dalles gives a f*ck about TCU...
Which team will feel disrespected by the BCS this season, and which idiot congressman from the state that school is in will start WHINING again???
Nothing is going to change, so why does everyone have to constantly bring this up???
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
Foster-your last statement-that nothings going to change-is incorrect- everything is changing and things will not stay the same-that's the way it is. We are living in the future-tell you how I know-read it in the papers 15 years ago. We're are riding rocket ships and taking with our minds-wearing torquose jewely and standing in soup lines. Change is inevitable-those who are against change are just helping to delay the progress of something thats going to happen. This Blog is a vehicle for which the many different opinions can be expressed and in its part may help with the changes that are happening. You must be happy with the status quo- and that's okay, but when some call for improvements to a flawed system, then these improvements should be considered. Go Frogs
Regan
· 4 months ago
When AUB could go undefeated and sit there watching SCAL hang 55 on OU in the NCG, the overwhelming majority of us realize that the status quo needs a shake-up.
Change in and of itself is not a good thing. It can be; often is - but so long as different people have different visions of the future, "change" will remain an intangible concept in the eyes of most people. I just don't put much stock in inevitability.
I do agree 100% with your last statement though, calls for improvement should always be allowed a forum for voicing ideas, etc., especially in an environment based on mutual respect for individuals and viewpoints.
...and stuff...
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
Thanks Regan 04 was a perfect example of a system needing fixing OU beat Texas that year 12-0 That probably boosted them over AU for a shot at the title-would USC whup AU or Utah as bad-we will never know- I agree that we all have different visions and ideas and thats one of the things I personnally enjoy on this forum. I honestly believe that those individuals who serve in the government should have more pressing issues to discuss than football, but I can also understand why some powerful people are being pressed to bring issues to the forefront forced upon them by their political contributers most of whom are alumi of institutions from the state that they represent. Its the old back scratching type of thing that has always existed. We as voters or football fans have very little to do with the actual decisions being made other than voice our opinions on the subject and make our message heard like Mr. Prather.
fosterkeats
· 4 months ago
Actually, I'm not happy with the status quo, but I've seen the progression from just playing the bowls and voting, to the "Bowl Coalition" to the "Bowl Alliance" and now the "BCS"...
Only 1 team since 1945 that was NOT in a current BCS conference or named Notre Dame has won the National Championship, BYU in 1984...
Would Utah have beaten Florida or Oklahoma last year if given the chance??? Who knows... But the old format before all the above "BS" plans would have let the voters & the coaches decide if they would be given the chance, and all signs point to YES...
Clemson in '81 was barely ranked but won all their games and moved up and took it. Being in the ACC really didn't matter then. Tulane in 1998 was in the same boat but wasn't in a Bowl Alliance conference and had to play in the Liberty Bowl and finished #7 at 12-0, behind 10-2 Forida and 11-2 Florida St... why??? This keeps happening b/c of RATINGS. Who cares about ratings??? ESPN, ABC... Why??? B/c if there was a playoff and somehow a team like Utah or Boise makes it thru to the final, the "Joe Six Packs" of this country won't watch. So that makes ratings go down, which makes advertising $$$ go down. And who does advertising focus on??? Who is gullible enough to buy whatever they see on TV for no reason??? The "Joe Six Packs", the "undecided" voters, the people who vote for "The People's Choice Awards", the idiots, the morons, the people who called in sick so they could watch the Michael Jackson funeral, the people who had to call the FCC when their TV finally stopped working last month even though they have had 2 f*cking years to get it done...
A playoff risks putting an unpopular team in, and there is too much $$$ tied up and depended on by greedy SOBs to even allow the opportunity to happen. Unfortunately, it's a fact of life in these United States...
We AREN'T using our minds, we're using a sport that people throw their money at to make money. That's the American Way...
I'm well aware what this blog is for, I am just tired of all the endless debate on a situation that will NEVER become what the majority of football fans want. Whining & endless analysis & government hearings won't do a damn thing to change it.
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
Thanks Foster Glad your not happy with the status quo I honestly believe that had a true championship series been played that that joe-six-pack guy that you refered too would watch, whether its Utah,TCU, Boise st whatever- the ratings might not be as high as a OU vs FL game-I dunno about that- The BCS games get huge ratings and in a true championship format and the addition of two games the ratings would actually increase. I will agree that certain teams tOSU,Tex,USC etc etc have bigger fanbases and generally get a lot higher ratings than others, although in a championship game series chances are a lot of those high profile teams would be featured against some of those others mentioned. The talking with our minds thing came from a song in the seventies, it was just a joke. I know that you are tied of the endless debate and I respect your opinion. Adios Tomcat
fosterkeats
· 4 months ago
I got your John Prine reference, I dig it...
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
cool= Like your photo-Ya I memorized a lot of song lyrics over the years
fosterkeats
· 4 months ago
Crack that whip Give the past the slip Step on a crack Break your Momma's back
When a problem comes along You must whip it Before the cream sits out too long You must whip it When something's goin' wrong You must whip it
Now whip it Into shape Shape it up Get straight Go forward Move ahead Try to detect it It's not too late To whip it Whip it good!!!
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
I worked the rigs from three to midnight On the Corpus Christi Bay we'd get off and drink till daylight sleep the morning away I'd planned to take my wages leave the rigs behind for good but this life it is contagious and it gets down in you blood If I lived my life all over it wouldn't matter anyway cause I never could stay sober on the Corpus Christi Bay
fosterkeats
· 4 months ago
I saw him a few months ago here in Atlanta, great show... he played that song...
(For those of you wanting to know, we're talking about Robert Earl Keen)
He's playing at that Cross Canadian Ragweed Red Dirt Roundup on 9/6, but I'm sure you already know that, lol...
Regan
· 4 months ago
Holy crap, I am actually starting to like Foster...
Devo Rocks...
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
Would Utah have beaten Florida or Oklahoma last year if given the chance??? Who knows... But the old format before all the above "BS" plans would have let the voters & the coaches decide if they would be given the chance, and all signs point to YES...
This actually touches on how the BCS helps teams like Utah. Utah got most of their credibility from their win over Alabama. Without the BCS they would not have had that game and would not have had the credibility that we all now attest to.
If one treats the standard deviations found in the poll votes as a measure of the measurement error of the polling process then one can estimate the percent chance that a random voter would have selected Utah over the top ranked team.
Prior to the Sugar Bowl Utah had raised the question of just over 9% of the people (actually computers, as I used Massey's Football Ranking Comparison for these numbers). After the Sugar Bowl this jumped to almost 18%. Thus the BCS almost doubled Utah's claim to the title.
Who cares about ratings??? ESPN, ABC... Why??? B/c if there was a playoff and somehow a team like Utah or Boise makes it thru to the final, the "Joe Six Packs" of this country won't watch.
I am pretty sure Fresno State in the college World Series did not hurt the baseball championship games last year. That is the only year I know who won the title in baseball.
gatorhippy
· 4 months ago
Utah got most of their credibility from their win over Alabama...
I would say that the Utes received any and all of their credibility from that win...
Which leads to the premise that their overall "body of work" from the regular season just simply didn't lead to the justification of their placement in the BCS CG...
And even after it was all said and done, even though Utah received the 18% you are looking at...
It's still falls well short of the overall popular opinion when looking at all the post-season rankings overall...
Which, unfortunately for Kyle & company, is really what counts...
Popular opinion...
Which Utah decisively didn't gain with the exception of a few voters in polls that have zero to do with the system they and their conference mates signed up for...
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
Utah's presidents testimony would have had far more weight if Utah and the MWC had not executed their exit clause to get out of the Liberty Bowl after 2004.
Utah would have played a far better Southern Miss team then they got in Pittsburgh, and the Liberty Bowl would still feature the MWC vs. C-USA champions today. With the growth of the mid majors the Liberty Bowl would have grown along side of them.
In 2008 the MWC presented a proposal that would cross them into the elite, but leave the rest of the outsiders were they are.
Twice now the MWC has taken the stand that they will not stand by the side of the other outsiders when their own interests can be advanced.
Without that united stand, of teams bringing 25% of the ticket buying fans (based on regular season average attendance figures) but receiving less than 12% of the BCS revenue, the complaints echo a bit hallow. The MWC can blame no one but themselves for this.
Regan
· 4 months ago
I respectfully disagree on the Sugar Bowl being the Utes' only major claim for credibility.
Simply put, the MWC was pretty good up top last year, specifically referring to TCU and BYU. UTAH also got ORST out of the Pac-10, and the Beavers almost won the conference.
Just imagine how that schedule might have looked had MICH been as good as they normally are?
fosterkeats
· 4 months ago
Too bad that credibility came AFTER the season was over... I thought they would be a top 10 team at the onset of the season, due to returning starters, schedule, etc... Too bad the majority of the "Poll People" are idiots and don't research or keep up with teams outside of their region, yadda yadda yadda...
If we were in 1978(man that would be sweet...), an undefeated Utah would have climbed to #1 b/c they were the only undefeated team, no one payed attention to "strength of schedule" or "non-conference opponents", and MOST IMPORTANTLY, there was NO ESPN...
THIS year's CWS ratings were up 36%... why??? Perhaps b/c popular bandwagon teams like Texas & LSU were playing... The Championship series itself was up 24%... I was almost ambushed by some UGA red necks while rooting for Fresno last season...
Ben Prather
· 4 months ago
So what I get is that the ratings were up 36%, but only 24% when you take Fresno State out of the championship game.
Part of that 36% was a good share of Utah that usually doesn't give a flip about baseball, but actually had a team in this year.
I'll admit this is the first year I have EVER watched a college baseball game. Wasn't really convinced to rush to watch another. I would rather watch spring football or follow the football political machine work (using the term work loosely).
All Comments
Look at the final regular season coaches' poll, NONE of the coaches in the MOUNTAIN WEST CONFERENCE votede Utah higher than 5th, even the Utes' coach voted HIS OWN TEAM 4th...
The same whining and crying came from the Georgia State Legislature 2 season ago, but did you hear a peep out of them after Florida beat their precious Dawgs by 40???
So just drop it...
HOWEVER, IF our government intends to investigate the BCS with regards to how teams in a given conference are determined BCS Bowl worthy, OR intends to impose the criteria with which teams and their conferences are determined to be BCS Bowl worthy, OR intends to impose a Div-1 play-off system, WE DO NOT WANT IT!!!
Hear me! This is not the type of legislation with which we want our government involved, at least not if you're hoping to wake up in Russia some day (or a reasonable facsimile there-of). I've said it at least a dozen times in other threads. IF our government gets involved with this kind of legislation, there's no legislation from which you can keep them. They WILL get involved in every aspect of our lives, until a Big Brother state is finally established. I'm with Foster on this one, except we also need to tell this "Congressional Committee" to DROP IT NOW!!!
Ty Webb: "Oh, Danny, this isn't Russia............. This isn't Russia is it???"
Danny: "No..."
Ty: "Good..."
With only one senator of the 10 person committee present their was not a quorum to even make an official recommendation.
The BCS consistently picks the wrong #2 team. I welcome anything that can make the system better (cough, cough - playoffs).
Could things be better? Of course. Could they be worse? You have no idea...
2007 was not clear cut by any means and the fact that LSU beat Ohio St. in the NC does not mean they were the best team in the nation that year IMO.
2007 final BCS standings:
1. LSU (60) 12-2 1,620
2. Georgia (3) 11-2 1,515
3. USC (1) 11-2 1,500
4. Missouri 12-2 1,347 (before the B12 Championship 12-1)
5. Ohio State 11-2 1,346
6. West Virginia 11-2 1,342
7. Kansas (1) 12-1 1,303
Three of the last three #2 teams beat the #1 team.
non-BCS teams are 3-1 all time in BCS bowls.
The premises of the BCS are flawed.
I'd have to say you're right (in retrospect) about the top 7 in 2006, but I think that it was the Conference Championship notion that won out over all.
As far as 2007 goes, there is only one word that can properly convey how bizarre it was; it begins with cluster....
Once more, the Conference Championship notion carried the day, although I am still disgusted at the idea of a 2-loss national champion...
We definitely need an improved championship system with an improved game structure, whatever that may turn out to be.
Trusting such a government with our beloved greatest sport in the history of civilization? Not even at gunpoint.
And once more, Playoffs would ruin College Football.
I mean what in the hell would we do if we couldn’t argue about SOS, conference superiority, and the like? Half the crap we talk about would become irrelevant with a playoff system. I love all the controversy that's what makes it so compelling, even in the middle of the off season. If you enjoy Fanblogs year around then say NO to playoffs.
Because all those other sports in the world that have playoff systems garner no debate or interest of any kind.
I'm a big NBA fan but as soon as the Finals are over there's not much to talk about. Need proof? The biggest thing being talked about on B-ball blogs is Slam Gate. That league has to rely on scandals in the off season to hold fans interest......
By the way LeBron is not a crook....
How would a playoff ruin SOS and conference superiority discussions?
I could see how recent performances might suggest it would put the BIG 10 at a disadvantage, but not ruin the conversation.
Somewhere, I sense that ksuwild is thinking the same thing.... :)
I certainly hope LeBron is not a crook - he's the most exciting roundballer on the court today.
Using the current BCS rankings-or whatever to determine the teams
Top 8 teams only- now you still have debates and contraversy
Now we can all argue over who' 8 and who's 9
everybody is happy and everybody gets a legit shot at a true champoinship as opposed to the Mythical National champion-which is what exist today-will teams still be left out-Yes-will it be fair- probably not 100%- no- but it would be a lot better than the current system-Yes
The BCS was formed as an improvement over the old system.
I'm not in favor of any goverenment intervention, but lets face the facts- Not all teams have a fair shot and millions of dollars are at stake. Look no further than 2008 were FL & OU the two best teams?
Maybe the folks at ESPN convinced yall, but they didn't convince me, there's a lot of room for doubt.
What if the 08 game featured USC vs Utah ? well why not? or a Texas vs Florida
Take the top 8 teams= 4 big bowls= Huge revenue
The season does not need to be extended-that arguement dosn't wash
next round two huge bowls= Huge revenue
One Big true Champ game= Nat Champ-biggest game in history
Those other 112 teams that didn't make it- can participate in the other remaining bowl games
With this system described- I'm just adding two extra games
Many teams have a 6 or 7 week break between the last game and their bowl-like B-10/11 or Pac-10 teams
If I were going to start a totalitarian regime, I would take control of the most successful businesses and organizations in the country. I certainly wouldn't pay money to acquire a controlling stake of the .03% of GDP businesses that are currently failing and would drag the economy further down if they failed, but that's just me!
Whether we like it or not, the BCS is a monopoly. Contrary to popular opinion, monopolies are not illegal, but they do draw the scrutiny of government regulators and they are well within their rights to examine the BCS to determine if any anti-trust laws have been broken. As far as I know, the BCS has not done anything to prevent a competing organization or structure to evolve and replace it, so the BCS has violated no laws, IMO.*
*I am not an attorney, but I play one on TV.
I'm an Economics guy; I can't help it...
I disagree with the notion that the BCS is a monopoly, although I do agree with everything else you mentioned about it. The BCS isn't even really an organization. The quickest (yet flawed) comparison is to equate the BCS with a measurement system agreed upon by all parties that sign it.
I think what you're focusing on is the "Barriers to Entry" aspect of a Monopoly; if that's the case, you're spot on as things stand now on practical grounds, because we all know the Big Ten and Pac-10 could ignore the rest of the nation and do their own thing. They have the power to do so, but practically, they wouldn't.
I see what you mean about the BCS being a measurement system, but I still feel that the BCS is a monopoly. Is there an alternative "measurement system" FBS teams can utilize to reach a championship game? Does the BCS require contracts with schools and conferences assuring they don't jump to an alternative measurement system inside of term?
I agree that government mandated playoffs would bankrupt the sport.
And government doing anything would bankrupt anything right now. Dadgummit, RG called me on politics once already...sorry...
Oh, wait, no one in Texas outside of suburban Dalles gives a f*ck about TCU...
Which team will feel disrespected by the BCS this season, and which idiot congressman from the state that school is in will start WHINING again???
Nothing is going to change, so why does everyone have to constantly bring this up???
We are living in the future-tell you how I know-read it in the papers 15 years ago. We're are riding rocket ships and taking with our minds-wearing torquose jewely and standing in soup lines.
Change is inevitable-those who are against change are just helping to delay the progress of something thats going to happen. This Blog is a vehicle for which the many different opinions can be expressed and in its part may help with the changes that are happening.
You must be happy with the status quo- and that's okay, but when some call for improvements to a flawed system, then these improvements should be considered.
Go Frogs
Change in and of itself is not a good thing. It can be; often is - but so long as different people have different visions of the future, "change" will remain an intangible concept in the eyes of most people. I just don't put much stock in inevitability.
I do agree 100% with your last statement though, calls for improvement should always be allowed a forum for voicing ideas, etc., especially in an environment based on mutual respect for individuals and viewpoints.
...and stuff...
OU beat Texas that year 12-0 That probably boosted them over AU for a shot at the title-would USC whup AU or Utah as bad-we will never know- I agree that we all have different visions and ideas and thats one of the things I personnally enjoy on this forum.
I honestly believe that those individuals who serve in the government should have more pressing issues to discuss than football, but I can also understand why some powerful people are being pressed to bring issues to the forefront forced upon them by their political contributers most of whom are alumi of institutions from the state that they represent. Its the old back scratching type of thing that has always existed. We as voters or football fans have very little to do with the actual decisions being made other than voice our opinions on the subject and make our message heard like Mr. Prather.
Only 1 team since 1945 that was NOT in a current BCS conference or named Notre Dame has won the National Championship, BYU in 1984...
Would Utah have beaten Florida or Oklahoma last year if given the chance??? Who knows... But the old format before all the above "BS" plans would have let the voters & the coaches decide if they would be given the chance, and all signs point to YES...
Clemson in '81 was barely ranked but won all their games and moved up and took it. Being in the ACC really didn't matter then. Tulane in 1998 was in the same boat but wasn't in a Bowl Alliance conference and had to play in the Liberty Bowl and finished #7 at 12-0, behind 10-2 Forida and 11-2 Florida St... why??? This keeps happening b/c of RATINGS. Who cares about ratings??? ESPN, ABC... Why??? B/c if there was a playoff and somehow a team like Utah or Boise makes it thru to the final, the "Joe Six Packs" of this country won't watch. So that makes ratings go down, which makes advertising $$$ go down. And who does advertising focus on??? Who is gullible enough to buy whatever they see on TV for no reason??? The "Joe Six Packs", the "undecided" voters, the people who vote for "The People's Choice Awards", the idiots, the morons, the people who called in sick so they could watch the Michael Jackson funeral, the people who had to call the FCC when their TV finally stopped working last month even though they have had 2 f*cking years to get it done...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A playoff risks putting an unpopular team in, and there is too much $$$ tied up and depended on by greedy SOBs to even allow the opportunity to happen. Unfortunately, it's a fact of life in these United States...
We AREN'T using our minds, we're using a sport that people throw their money at to make money. That's the American Way...
I'm well aware what this blog is for, I am just tired of all the endless debate on a situation that will NEVER become what the majority of football fans want. Whining & endless analysis & government hearings won't do a damn thing to change it.
I honestly believe that had a true championship series been played that that joe-six-pack guy that you refered too would watch, whether its Utah,TCU, Boise st whatever- the ratings might not be as high as a OU vs FL game-I dunno about that- The BCS games get huge ratings and in a true championship format and the addition of two games the ratings would actually increase. I will agree that certain teams tOSU,Tex,USC etc etc have bigger fanbases and generally get a lot higher ratings than others, although in a championship game series chances are a lot of those high profile teams would be featured against some of those others mentioned.
The talking with our minds thing came from a song in the seventies, it was just a joke. I know that you are tied of the endless debate and I respect your opinion.
Adios Tomcat
Give the past the slip
Step on a crack
Break your Momma's back
When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sits out too long
You must whip it
When something's goin' wrong
You must whip it
Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good!!!
On the Corpus Christi Bay
we'd get off and drink till daylight
sleep the morning away
I'd planned to take my wages
leave the rigs behind for good
but this life it is contagious
and it gets down in you blood
If I lived my life all over
it wouldn't matter anyway
cause I never could stay sober
on the Corpus Christi Bay
(For those of you wanting to know, we're talking about Robert Earl Keen)
He's playing at that Cross Canadian Ragweed Red Dirt Roundup on 9/6, but I'm sure you already know that, lol...
Devo Rocks...
This actually touches on how the BCS helps teams like Utah. Utah got most of their credibility from their win over Alabama. Without the BCS they would not have had that game and would not have had the credibility that we all now attest to.
If one treats the standard deviations found in the poll votes as a measure of the measurement error of the polling process then one can estimate the percent chance that a random voter would have selected Utah over the top ranked team.
Prior to the Sugar Bowl Utah had raised the question of just over 9% of the people (actually computers, as I used Massey's Football Ranking Comparison for these numbers). After the Sugar Bowl this jumped to almost 18%. Thus the BCS almost doubled Utah's claim to the title.
Who cares about ratings??? ESPN, ABC... Why??? B/c if there was a playoff and somehow a team like Utah or Boise makes it thru to the final, the "Joe Six Packs" of this country won't watch.
I am pretty sure Fresno State in the college World Series did not hurt the baseball championship games last year. That is the only year I know who won the title in baseball.
I would say that the Utes received any and all of their credibility from that win...
Which leads to the premise that their overall "body of work" from the regular season just simply didn't lead to the justification of their placement in the BCS CG...
And even after it was all said and done, even though Utah received the 18% you are looking at...
It's still falls well short of the overall popular opinion when looking at all the post-season rankings overall...
Which, unfortunately for Kyle & company, is really what counts...
Popular opinion...
Which Utah decisively didn't gain with the exception of a few voters in polls that have zero to do with the system they and their conference mates signed up for...
Utah would have played a far better Southern Miss team then they got in Pittsburgh, and the Liberty Bowl would still feature the MWC vs. C-USA champions today. With the growth of the mid majors the Liberty Bowl would have grown along side of them.
In 2008 the MWC presented a proposal that would cross them into the elite, but leave the rest of the outsiders were they are.
Twice now the MWC has taken the stand that they will not stand by the side of the other outsiders when their own interests can be advanced.
Without that united stand, of teams bringing 25% of the ticket buying fans (based on regular season average attendance figures) but receiving less than 12% of the BCS revenue, the complaints echo a bit hallow. The MWC can blame no one but themselves for this.
Simply put, the MWC was pretty good up top last year, specifically referring to TCU and BYU. UTAH also got ORST out of the Pac-10, and the Beavers almost won the conference.
Just imagine how that schedule might have looked had MICH been as good as they normally are?
If we were in 1978(man that would be sweet...), an undefeated Utah would have climbed to #1 b/c they were the only undefeated team, no one payed attention to "strength of schedule" or "non-conference opponents", and MOST IMPORTANTLY, there was NO ESPN...
Ah, the simpler times...
In response to your ratings response to my post, check this out:
http://blog.timesunion.com/sportsmedia/espn-gid...
THIS year's CWS ratings were up 36%... why??? Perhaps b/c popular bandwagon teams like Texas & LSU were playing... The Championship series itself was up 24%... I was almost ambushed by some UGA red necks while rooting for Fresno last season...
Part of that 36% was a good share of Utah that usually doesn't give a flip about baseball, but actually had a team in this year.
I'll admit this is the first year I have EVER watched a college baseball game. Wasn't really convinced to rush to watch another. I would rather watch spring football or follow the football political machine work (using the term work loosely).
Just for fun since I've been absent for a while.
Regan needs to read this-LOL