Fanblogs.com: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now
1Tomcat
· 7 months ago
Good link in thread- Pitt or ND would be the best for generating revenue and ND has had a lot of history playing against B-10/11 schools- Joe Pa is right and Delany should listen. Iowa St and Cinn fit geographically, but just don't have the history that Pitt & ND do.
Regan
· 7 months ago
What about Missouri?
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 7 months ago
Missouri would be a good fit, but I think there are some traditional rivalries that would be hard for the Tiger fans to lose.
"BC"
· 7 months ago
i don't like the idea of ruining another conference with 12 schools.
isn't it the point to get ALL BCS conferences to 12 schools with a championship game?
i mean the best way to do it would be like soccer in England.
the bottom two teams in every BCS conference get relegated to a non-BCS conference at the end of every season. then the top two non-BCS schools go to a BCS conference.
it would also take care of the problem of overlooking non-BCS schools. for example, Utah and Fresno State would already be in the Pac10 replacing Washington and Washington State. then if Utah could've remained unbeaten in Pac 10 play, they would've been playing Florida for the NC.
and it gets BETTER! we could have five BCS conferences (SEC, Big 12, Pac 12, ACC, Big Ten(12)) and each conference could be assigned 10 states in which to draw teams from.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 7 months ago
I would think most playoff advocates would want BCS conferences to install conference championship games, no?
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 7 months ago
Yes! It's called step one...
Ben Prather
· 7 months ago
The radical football season idea:
The BCS is great because it maintains the value of the regular season. So why not maximise the value of the regular season?
Let the tradition conferences stand, but have them allow thier top teams to represent them in three 12 team geographical supper conference. The conferences split the generated revenue based on the number of teams they have representing them in the super conferences.
The super conferences would play a full round robin with one game reserved to host a non super conference team of their choice. The champions of the three regions and the previous national champion would form a four team playoff. If the previous national champion wins their region, the #2 team from that region would participate.
A full round robin allows head to head tie breakers to be used. In the even of a three way tie for a division, the MOV among the games involving the three teams would be used.
The defending region would visit for the fiorst round and host the championship. The Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl and Orange Bowl could be used for these games.
The remaining 32 super conference teams would be the designated home team for the remaining bowls and be seeded against the top performing non super conference teams that year. The bowl game winners are next year's super conference members. This significantly increases the meaning of the bowls, and thus their value.
The regions are determined by state, not conference alignments. To seed the system we will use the average ranking in the 6 BCS computers over the last 4 years, throwing out the highest and lowest rankings each year.
South: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, Louisianna, Kentucky, (Maryland, UM), North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia
Florida, LSU, Virginia Tech, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, Miami (FL), Clemson, Wake Forest
North: Connecticut, Deleware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, (Maryland, Navy), Massachusetes, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hamphsire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington DC, West Virginia, Wisconsin
Ohio State, Penn State, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Michigan, Boston College, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Rutgers, Northwestern, Michigan State, Pittsburgh
West (20): Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Idaho, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
6 teams: SEC, ACC, Big 10 5 teams: Big East, Big 12 3 teams: PAC 10, MWC 1 team: WAC, Independents
The regular season is amplified, not reduced, and bowls are given a reinvigorated meaning while maintaing conference identities.
NMLSooner
· 7 months ago
"Let the tradition conferences stand, but have them allow thier top teams to represent them in three 12 team geographical supper conference." I agree, and since meat is the main course in just about every supper, let's call the conferences Ham, Chicken, and Beef! : )
Ben Prather
· 7 months ago
Not kosher.
Lamb, Chicken and Beef? Still not vegan...
facebook-1036805166
· 7 months ago
Interesting post but I don't really understand how the Big Ten needs ND more than ND needs the Big Ten. I see ND as a has-been football program with a failed football "plan." All they do is add to the mediocrity that has been plaguing the Big Ten for the last few years.
4cornerz
· 7 months ago
Well this is a warning, The Big East better watch out. I can see the Big 10 going after a Big East or Big 12 school more likely a Big East school. I can see Pitt, WVA or Syracuse and in the Big 12 Missouri or Texas going to the Big 10
OU_Ron
· 7 months ago
I could see Missouri going, but what possible reason for Texas ??.......distance alone would be a negative..
Clemson_Joe
· 7 months ago
Yeah, I really can't see Texas going anywhere. No matter how you look at it, it just doesn't make sense.
Ben Prather
· 7 months ago
Suppose one thinks the worst of the BCS...
How would a true cartel respond to an up and comming conference threatening to bust thier little club? They would steal their top teams and leave said conference laying on the side of the road, all while saying they where simply tring to advance thier own leagues.
In this scenario the PAC 10 would take Utah and BYU and the Big 10 would take Iowa State so the Big 12 could get TCU. The MWC problem is solved. Boise State is still floating around, but a cindarella is good for the system.
Notre Dame
I have been enjoying ND's demise the past two years and have been optomistic that they would fall to a point where NBC fails to extent their contract. Only then are they likely to select a conference to join. They will have their pick and I can't say if they would choose the Big 10 or Big East. The Big 10 might descide to not wait, forcing Notre Dame, eventually, to the Big East.
I really think ND is past its low and a 9-3 result is my expectation for them this year, delaying the reduction of TV value. In a down year they sold out the Hawaii Bowl.
Personally I think West Virginia would be the best football value for the Big 10. The Big East should then leave room for Notre Dame and take Navy and Army. This would reinforce the conference's image as historic football powers. With two spots left they could take East Carolina and Memphis to bring in some fresh blood and another strong basketball program.
Only likely expansion I will be greatly disappointed if the MWC does not announce plans to include Boise State starting in 2010 on June 6th.
fosterkeats
· 7 months ago
F*ck Notre Dame... if they don't want to be in a conference and play by the same rules as everyone else, the hell with them...
Leave them out and their only option would be to go play in 1AA with Northern Iowa, Montana & James F*cking Madison...
jake
· 7 months ago
I want to address each team mentioned.
Pitt - a likely target, no questions asked.
Miami (OH) - being a private school, and therefore lacking substantial funding, not a likely target. However, if the Big 10 pulls a team from the BE, then the BE would likely target Miami.
Notre Dame - I disagree with "the Big 10 needs ND more" statement. ND is hurting and, while it has its NBC contract and unlimited funding, Charlie isn't getting the Irish into a BCS game anytime soon. Being an Independent, getting into a BCS game is statistically more difficult. Since the Irish play a Big 10 schedule on steroids (with USC, etc.), then joining the Big 10 certainly would benefit the Irish.
Cinci - is in Ohio. What is the largest state university there? Enough said. Ohio is Buckeye country. It might make sense only for lack of other options.
WVU - a solid program but the academics are and always will be too inferior for Big 10 standards.
Iowa State - No. ISU should be happy the Big 12 still wants it. However, the Big 10 would ask ISU before Kansas State.
OTHER CONSIDERATIONS: Rutgers/Syracuse - Same argument: both in a highly lucrative television market. 'Cuse has tradition, and unlike the Miami argument, tradition brings in money, even for this private school. Rutgers may not have tradition, but who needs tradition when you have tons of money and you are THE state school. Thanks to PSU, the geographics appears to fit.
Kansas State - welcome mediocrity. No thanks.
Memphis - could make it happen but wouldn't be a top choice. Like Cinci in Ohio, the Tigers live in a sea of Orange.
Louisville - no one is really considering the Cardinals but they should be! Yes, it's on a down year in football, but it went to and won the Orange Bowl only a few years back. Decent TV market AND it borders traditional Big Ten country (the midwest). U of L's academics are rapidly on the rise and tons of money is being pumped into its athletic and academic facilities.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 7 months ago
Great insights. Very well thought out.
I would caution you at looking too closely at just 1) football program and 2) only recent history. Some of the programs that you're not as excited about bring greater strengths than just their football programs.
junk_junkerson
· 6 months ago
Miami is definitely not a private school.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
You are wrong.
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
I believe he is referring to jake's statement, "Miami (OH) - being a private school...".
If so, he is correct that Miami (OH) is not a private school.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
I guess I should have read the back threads...
As you were!
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
Actually, I was typing the same response that you wrote when I happened to read jake's post. That's really the only reason that I know. So, I was guilty as well. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.
NMLSooner
· 7 months ago
I always base any of these changes on keeping long time traditions, past success and attendance in football and men's basketball. They are the money sports at most schools. I KNOW THAT THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS AT ALMOST EVERY UNIVERSITY. By in large, these are the money makers, and therefore the decision makers as well. Also, I know this will never happen. Big Ten: add Notre Dame and Cincinnati. Lose: Penn State. Adding Cincy has more to do with basketball 2 NC's and very good attendance. ND is pretty obvious. Big East: add Penn State, Boston College, Army, Navy, Maryland, East Carolina, Marshall. Lose: South Florida, Louisville, Cincinnati. Penn State has always fit better in this conference. Army and Navy are not what they used to be but great tradition and good attendance. I know Maryland used to be part of the south, but I don't think so any more. They can play Duke in nonconference bb. ECU has a great fan base. Marshall would be a good fit for 12. ACC: add South Florida and South Carolina. Lose: Maryland, Boston College Better geographical fits. SEC: add Louisville, Memphis. Lose: South Carolina, Vanderbilt. Both would bring a huge basketball base and good football base. Pac 10: add Utah and BYU Big 12: add UTEP. Lose: Baylor. good bb tradition and great potential. only game in town or within 500 miles! Baylor can fight with Vandy for the C-USA crown. MWAC: combine what's left of the Mountain West and Western Athletic minus TCU. Drop Idaho and Utah State or San Jose State. C-USA: add TCU again, Vanderbilt, Baylor. Lose: Memphis, Marshall, East Carolina. I've got this stuff at home probably left someone out.
Ben Prather
· 7 months ago
Swap UTEP and TCU maybe? Perhapse have LA Tech in C-USA instead of UTEP?
MWAC: Boise State, Hawaii, Nevada, Fresno State, Air Force, New Mexico, San Jose State, CSU, UNLV, Wyoming, SDSU, NW State.
Sun Belt: Add Utah State, again, and Idaho.
NMLSooner
· 7 months ago
The reasons I chose UTEP are that they already average more in attendance in football and basketball than TCU. Imagine what their averages would be if Big XII competition is coming to town instead of C-USA. Absolutely no pro or other major university competition. El Paso is actually closer to Phoenix than Houston or Dallas. I think they could better compete because they are a public university. They have a NC in basketball, and a very famous one at that. TCU could work. The Dal.-FW area is HUGE and still growing, but it is a pro city. If they want major college they drive to Austin or College Station or watch one of the growing number of games moving to the area. I think New Mexico could work and their tallies and population growth are right there with UTEP. I just wonder if their ties to the teams in the mountain west are a little to long to make up. Plus do you want your states flagship university trying to compete with the Big XII South?
fosterkeats
· 7 months ago
Yuck... asking the SEC to take Louisville & Memphis is like asking the Big 12 to take Tulane or Houston or Rice or Tulsa... never in million years would any of them take those 2nd tier schools.
NMLSooner
· 7 months ago
In football they are second tier. So is Vandy, and have you ever checked out the illustrious history of Gamecock football? I mean change the nickname to "Chickens" already. Memphis is still a college football town. No Titans in town like Vandy deals with, and the Grizzlies have not hurt Memphis attendance in bb. There attendance would shoot up to capacity with an SEC schedule. Louisville is a premier bb program with 2 NC and the fifth best home attendance average and would only trail Kentucky (No.1 in attendance)in the SEC. As far as the Big XII, I'm saying I would take UTEP over Baylor. UTEP is in the same conference as the four schools you mentioned.
1Tomcat
· 7 months ago
UTEP is probably a better fit in MWC geographically Check this out Iowa St goes to B-10/11 then move OU to B-12 north include TCU in B-12 south-right now seems like the toughest teams are in the south- with OU,Neb,Colo,KU,Missu,KSU in the north UT,TTech,TCU,OK St,A&M,BU in the south-it would strengthen the conference as a whole and perhaps the two best teams would face off in the CCG game If TCU was in the B-12 they would get a lot of the recruits that now go to OU and UT. TCU has beaten OU,TTech and BU in recent years and would be a great addition to the conference.
fosterkeats
· 7 months ago
You can't seperate Ou from Texas & Okkie State, they wouldn't play each other every year...
BrushpileBill
· 7 months ago
1 Tomcat, realigment has a lot more to do with TV sets than rivalries. Adding TCU would not add a single new TV set to the B12
I didn't enjoy it, but I have always acknowledged here that our past is far from glorious on the gridiron. Can you see now why I think it takes a real know nothing fan to suggest that Mr. Spurrier should be replaced?
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
No, not really. I remember fans just like you are now when Sparky Woods, Brad Scott, and Lou Holtz were all in charge, and those 3 certainly did not need to be the head coach in Columbia. I can respect your opinion that you like the guy, and I'm not trying to say that he deserves to go yet. The lofty hopes that he brought into town with him have not panned out, and he has all of his own players now, so it's time to produce something. Four straight non-losing seasons is certainly not a downgrade, but he's yet to better Lou Holtz (see 2001), and he was definitely expected to do that.
All that I'm saying is that if he goes 6-6 in Columbia this year, there's going to be some crowing. I already hear it almost daily. Like I said before, best of luck to him, and I'll be there for a few of them.
By the way, read my post a few posts down. I'm sure you'll agree with that.
The guy's entitled to his opinion. We have had too many coaching changes in Columbia, that's part of the problem. He's also a homer because he maintains that THE University of South Carolina is the number 2 school in the state.
Carnegie recognition South Carolina is one of only 23 public universities--and the only one in the state--the Carnegie Foundation has recognized for "very high research activity" and "curricular engagement, outreach, and partnerships."
The University's Columbia campus enrollment in fall 2008 was 27,488, including 19,765 undergraduates.
Campuses: 8
Enrollment: More than 41,518 (all campuses, fall 2008)
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
So you actually believe that the guy is in some way a homer because he agrees with most everyone else, including US News and the Princeton College Review? Apparently everyone else is a homer too, huh? That's just laughable.
Disagree with him about his opinion on football, or Spurrier if you want, but he actually has numbers and facts to back up his statement about it being #2 in the state.
Clemson has a higher average GPA for incoming freshmen, along with being more selective, and having a higher average SAT score. South Carolina does not outrank Clemson in any of the categories involving the accepted classes. They haven't in my lifetime either.
US News and World Report: Clemson - overall 61 - rating of 49 - 50.2% accept. USC - overall 108 - rating of 38 - 59.4% accept.
This isn't a secret. Everyone seems to know this, except you apparently. USC has a great graduate business program. Hang your hat on that if you want, but don't try to reach for something that isn't there.
Getting back to football, my point in showing you that article is just to show you that opinion isn't rare anymore. Mark it down: 6-6 isn't going to work this season, and if it happens, the crowing is going to be very, very loud in Columbia. Eric Hyman did a lot for his job security by hiring Horn, but there will be pressure on him as well if the football team doesn't show improvements. High recruiting rankings are great and all, but when the schools that rank lower than you every year are the same ones beating you year in and year out, there's a problem in coaching the product on the field.
Heck, I don't even know why I'm arguing this with you. I don't even care if you keep him. It's better for us if you keep him anyway. The guy is really doing well against the Tigers, isn't he? Man, that game in November was really close wasn't it? Bottom line is, this guy has a LONG list of players arrested and in trouble, had a mass exodus of players transferring and leaving early for the NFL, has lost quite a few coaches to other programs, and isn't producing on the field. What indication is there that there will be any actual improvement?
Out of curiosity, what do you think the Gamecocks record will be this year?
By the way, I'd like to sincerely wish the best of luck to the South Carolina baseball team in the SEC tournament this week. I'd like to see both Clemson and South Carolina get regionals, and South Carolina needs to light it up in the SEC tourney to make this happen.
U.of S.C.1978
· 6 months ago
If it wasn't a rivalry, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Size matters, ask a woman.
Good luck to your club as well in the Acc tourney.
As an eternal fan and an optimist, I am predicting an undefeated season this year.
Zac
· 4 months ago
In honor of your optimism, best of luck.
U.of S.C.1978
· 4 months ago
Thank you Zac.
gatorhippy
· 7 months ago
Dude, the SEC doesn't need any...
We're all stocked up on Bad Ass down here...
NMLSooner
· 7 months ago
Moving USC and Vandy out and Memphis and Louisville in I don't think constitutes the movement of any BA : )
gatorhippy
· 7 months ago
Vandy owns a winning record against both the Cards and BBQ U...
SoCar while going .500 against BBQ U has never played Louisville...
But at least they had an ACC Championship and a Heisman winner before stepping in the ring with the Big Boys...
NMLSooner
· 7 months ago
I believe Clemson_Joe answers the South Carolina question and since in that same piece Vanderbilt seems to be the constant whipping boy of USC, I think it answers them too. Memphis would not be good in the beginning, but they could be down the road. Louisville is even closer.
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
To some extent, I'm almost required to take shots at S.Carolina when set up for them. With that said, even though Vanderbilt and South Carolina may not have the history of the other SEC schools, they are certainly more qualified than Memphis or Louisville. The culture, especially at South Carolina, is that of an SEC school. Louisville and Memphis simply cannot compete with that. Not to mention, I believe South Carolina and Vanderbilt would beat Memphis and Louisville on the field, especially if the games were held at the SEC schools' home fields.
Honestly, I'm shocked you've even brought Memphis into this. Their football team is a mediocre second tier program, and their one shining star, the basketball program, just lost its leader. It's yet to be seen if they'll even continue that recent streak of winning in basketball. Without that, they're just an ugly school with good food and a good party (Beale Street Music Festival).
1Tomcat
· 7 months ago
You probably want Baylor out of the B-12 because they are improving and yall have to play them every year- Okay write this down- BU will be in a bowl this upcoming year and will pull a few upsets in the B-12- seen too many close ones slip away like Neb and TTech last year. Sicem-Bears
NMLSooner
· 7 months ago
They are improving Griffin is awesome and may help Baylor beat OU for the first time since joining the conference. I like their coach too. But I based it on the items I mentioned above. UTEP has a higher home attendance average than Baylor even though they are bringing in lower tier teams (except Texas last year). Meanwhile, Baylor gets a boost from two games a year that are virtual sellouts not because of their fanbase, but because Texas, OU, O-State, and A&M bring a bunch of fans when they play there. The Oklahoman did an article on OU fans enjoying the games at Waco because of how cheap and easy the tickets are.
1Tomcat
· 7 months ago
I agree with you. BU is in the B-12 for one important political reason. During the formation of the B-12 Ann Richards was the Gov of Texas and she had a lot of pull in the decesion being a BU alum. A lot of folks have argued that TCU should have been included instead of BU. TCU has had a lot more success than BU mainly because of a WAC,C-USA or MWC schedule. Patterson and Francione are both proven winners, but if TCU had been included in the B12 the competetion alone would have a huge impact upon the program and its record over the last 11 yrs. I agree with you on home games at BU, we usually try to attend at least one every year and getting tickets is no problem at all. I'm glad they have Art Briles as head coach and Robert Griffin is an amazing world class atheletee. The big problem with attendance at BU has really been their record, more folks would show up and will in the future, but its kind of hard to sellout games with a 3-9 or 4-8 record. If they were in C-USA or WAC they would be competing for Conf champs, however when you face a schedule like they have Nebraska, Oklahoma,Wake Forest,Texas Tech, OK state and Texas every week is a real big challenge. I look for them to beat UConn this year and Texas Tech, they have Wake on the road. The B-12 south is indeed a scary place. Hookem-Horns Sicem-Bears
burnss
· 7 months ago
South Carolina left the ACC in the 70s. South Carolina would never leave the mighty SEC. That is the only thing going for them - playing in the SEC gives them pride, although they will never be able to play with the big boys.
South Carolina would fit much better in the ACC and could possibly win. Their lone conference championship was in the ACC in 1969. They should go back, but it will just not happen.
It would be better for Clemson and South Carolina to both be in the ACC because Clemson gains nothing from playing South Carolina OOC every year.
Personally (and I know that this is far from likely), I would love to see Clemson, FSU, and GT in the SEC instead of the ACC.
Let Missouri go to the Big 10, Arkansas to the Big 12 to replace them. Kentucky and Vandy out of the SEC to make room for Clemson, FSU and GT.
New SEC divisions (with cross-division rivals) WEST:----------EAST: Bama-----------Clemson Auburn----------UGA Ole Miss--------SoCar Miss St----------GT LSU--------------Florida Tenn-------------FSU
See the traditional instate rivals in both divisions? In the East, it would make room for each team to open up another OOC game
Clemson has ties to SoCar, FSU, GT, and UGA - would be a great fit and I would love to see Clemson/Florida or Clemson/Bama...even Clemson/Auburn rivalries start up
The New ACC could look like: North: BC, UMd, UVa, VT, Syracuse (or WVU) , Vandy (better fit academically) South: Miami, USF, UNC, Duke, Wake, NC St
This would be strong for basketball (especially with Syracuse or WVU coming in). Football wouldn't be bad either as the "Old ACC" teams are getting stronger and adding USF would help. This would be a nice fit and very competitive.
Do away with the Big Least as a BCS conference and make it only 5 conferences with the conference finishing worst in the BCS standings biting their nails for an At Large bid. The Top 4 conferences get an automatic bid to one of the 4 major bowls (Orange, Sugar, Rose, Fiesta)
Clemson_Joe
· 7 months ago
Interesting idea.
My main issue with it is that WVU will never be asked to join the ACC unless they tremendously increase their national standing academically.
The whole thing is highly unlikely, but an interesting and well thought out concept nonetheless.
Also, I think Clemson - Tennessee, FSU - Alabama makes more sense than the opposite.
Zac
· 6 months ago
By virtue of a WV State Statute, WVU will never improve academically as a school. By state law, any WV resident, who graduates from their high school with a 2.0 or better, and applies to WVU (or any WV State college or university) has to be accepted.
They may have painted themselves into a corner, but oddly enough, it's worked out. You see, WVU's sports programs still meet or exceed NCAA standards for average GPA and Graduation Rate. So, while on one hand, as an academic hot bed, WVU barely smolders, on the other hand it is a school whoes sports programs will help keep the conference GPA up. WVU would fit anywhere.
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
It's not about the academics in the athletics department though. It's about the academics for the entire institution. You've proved why WVU is where they are academically, and I'd love to have them for their athletics, but it's just the way it is. I personally believe that they fit better athletically than Boston College, whatever that's worth.
I guess WVU will just have to remain the king of the Big East instead.
colreb
· 7 months ago
No team is leaving the SEC, Big 12, PAC, B10 or ACC. Too much money. Teams like Baylor, Vandy, Wake Forrest and Northwestern are coveted by conferences for their academics. They are going nowhere. Memphis averages around 15,000 for a football game, they are not anywhere on the SEC's radar, nor is Louisville. The only team the SEC would consider would be a FSU or Clemson, and that would be if Arkansas jumped to the Big 12, which they won't because the money in the SEC is too big.
Here's how I see it if you want 6 power conferences with 12 teams-
Big 10- Pitt. A natural rival for Penn St and good tradition. Pac- Utah and San Diego St. Utah brings in the Utah/SLC television market and San Diego St. brings in more SoCal viewsers. In addition, SDSU is a research institution with better academics than a Fresno St or Boise St, something that is a huge draw for the Pac 10. Big LEast- Memphis, East Carolina, Buffalo, UAB. With ECU you get a great fanbase and a decent team. Buffalo gives Syracuse an in state rival and puts the Big LEast in western NY. If the Bill's take off for Toronto, even more reason to try and move in. Memphis and UAB are urban schools that want to join the big time. Take them both and you continue a rivalry and give Louisville and Cincinnati two other urban schools in the southern region.
Just my 2 cents.
mrjrebel
· 7 months ago
I think if somehow a slot were open in the SEC, the conference would certainly consider more than Clemson. What about Texas? That's big money for the SEC, and access to lucrative media markets and fertile recruiting grounds.
But in the interest of what-if scenarios that won't ever happen, but could be fun to think about.... Suppose South Carolina leaves for the ACC and Kentucky for the Big East/Big 10. They could be replaced with Texas and A&M. Imagine this for a divisional lineup.
West
Texas A&M Arkansas LSU Ole Miss State
East
Bama Auburn Georgia Florida Tennessee Vandy
I like this, actually. All the major rivalries are accounted for in the proper division: Georgia-Auburn, Bama-Tennessee. And the Arkansas-Texas rivalry is now in-conference.
colreb
· 7 months ago
I think the top candidates for SEC expansion, if you were to add just one team, would have to be FSU, Clemson or Georgia Tech. Texas would want to bring a buddy so as to have a natural rival.
mrjrebel
· 7 months ago
I agree Colreb if the SEC were to just add 1 more team. In that event, I think Clemson makes the most sense, to give SC a true rival.
I was what-if'ing though about the conference expanding to 14 teams. Unthinkable, I'll admit, but then again.... Texas and A&M would bring a lot to the conference.... lots of tradition, championships, huge media markets, and recruiting grounds. And both schools certainly fit culturally with the SEC, as would Clemson, FSU, or Ga Tech.
BrushpileBill
· 7 months ago
My favorite new alignment would be for Mizzou or Iowa State to go with the Big 10 followed by Colorado jumping to PAC 10. Then you'd have 12 teams in the Big 10 and 10 teams in the Big 12
1Tomcat
· 7 months ago
Brushpile its al in fun, given your senerio that would free up the B-12 for TCU, and Arkansas replacements, then move OU & OK St to the north
North
Neb Missu OU OK st KSU KU South Arkansas Texas Tech Texas Tex A&M Baylor TCU
the B-12 south would resemble the old SWC without SMU,Houston & Rice
mrjrebel
· 7 months ago
I'd like to see Boise State and Utah join the Pac10 to give them 12, so they could add a championship as well.
Or... what about a 7th BCS conference including... Boise State, Utah, BYU, Fresno St, Colorado State, TCU, SMU, UTEP, Rice, Houston, Tulsa, and somebody else, maybe Wyoming. A couple of good teams and a bunch of decent ones. It'd be stronger than the Big East, perhaps.
Give them an automatic bid to the Fiesta to satisfy their demands. Elevate the Cotton Bowl to BCS and let the Big 12 champ go there.
4cornerz
· 6 months ago
Once the BCS see how nice the New Cotton Bowl Stadium is and how much money they can pimp the Cotton Bowl, mark my words The Cotton Bowl will be apart of the BCS line up starting 2015
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 6 months ago
What makes you think there will be a BCS in 2015? :)
Zac
· 6 months ago
Geographically & academically, the best fits for the Big Televen are IA St & ND. Of course, that means the Big Televen would have to induct ND and receive no share of their TV revenues. The Big Televen won't allow that, which means ND would have to be willing to give up a share of its TV revenues, and since ND won't allow that...
The next four for consideration (one of which would join IA St in the Big Televen) are Akron, Cincinnati, Miami (OH), & Mizzu. Akron has a decent fan base & a respectable endowment. The school would have to be willing to commit to sports a little harder is all. Cincinnati, without question, has the academics, the endowment, and (more recently) sports respectability in more than just basketball. Miami would not be my 1st pick of this group (I'd lean toward Cinci.). About the same size as BC, they have a good fan base, good academics, and boast an endowment exceeding $300 M. Not to mention, they have had decent football teams in the past. Mizzu, though on the SW fringe, is hardly far removed; a good fit all around.
It would really break my heart to see the Big East lose Pitt. However, it wouldn't surprise me, should a Big Televen school sponsor Pitt's application, to see another PA school push to vote against them. (It was bad enough when the Big East lost VA Tech to ACC expansion.)
I'm personally flattered some of you, including K-Hue, considered WVU, despite its over-all academic woes. Given the BS which revolved around Rich Rodriguez having left WVU for MI, and all the rhetoric about honor, I have to wonder what WVU's Admin would do, if offered a spot in the Big Televen. (It would sure make for an interesting rival with MI.)
Now, if the Big Televen really wanted to piss off WVU, instead of taking Pitt, take Marshall. This is a private school, rich in tradition, rich in academics, and just plain rich. They haven't done badly in sports, either. Though, admittedly, the football program has never been the same since the plane crash. (Fan base is a little small, but not bad.)
The long shots are precisely that: a loooooong ways away. Imagine if IA St joined and had to play Rutgers. OK, it's not quite as bad as Miami (FL) playing BC, but you get the picture.
Of course, a lot of this would hinge upon Penn St joining the Big East, which would bring the Big Televen back to Ten, and would allow them to explore new options. But, that won't happen either; at least not till Joe Pa dies. (Don't know about any of you, but I'm in no hurry for that.)
I agree with one thing: The Big East had better wise up and soon. There are opportunities out there in teams like ECU, Central FL, Marshall, Memphis, and Navy, just to name a few. I've even shown in previous threads how the Big East could add to their megaplex and not lose a thing. But, they haven't listened. But why should anyone be surprised. After all, neither has, or will, the Big Televen.
Cards House
· 4 months ago
First off, the Big East needs to be more in the Big East market area. Forget this talk of expanding into Texas. That would not go well travel wise and the TV market is tapped out already with Texas, Tex.Tech, Baylor and other Big 12 schools. At the same time you never know what will happen. IMO in order to gain more respect the Big East has to play for a conference championship. The SEC, Big 12 and ACC get the most respect because they play for a conference title. Here is my shake up.
NORTH SOUTH
1. PITT 1. WVU 2. CIN 2. Lville 3. Syracuse 3. Navy 4. Rutgers 4. Marshall 5. Uconn 5. ECU 6. Temple 6. Vir.Tech or Maryland in trade for USF if not opt for Memphis over USF.
This may need some tweaking but I think TV wise and travel wise it would benefit everyone most. The Big East title game could be played in Wash. DC, Baltimore or Charlotte. And as far as an ACC/BE trade I think it would work. You could throw Boston College in the mix but that would change the north south dynamics. And lets not forget Notre Dame. I think the Irish would benefit by joining the BE football but that's another story. I think with this setup the BE would grow more than people think.
Zac
· 4 months ago
You got some interesting ideas there, pckj. I think I would tend to agree with you, in general, but some tweaking would be necessary. For example, Temple: This is a sad story, in my opinion. It's a great school; it's not without some sports tradition (especially basketball), but where football is concerned, it's arguably the worst fan base going. Too few are at all interested. Year after year, Temple consistently failed to meet the average Big East home game attendance criterion. And, you know as well as I; money is what it's all about.
As an alternative, I would opt for Villanova making the jump back to what is now the BCS level. It's a comparable school in size, academics, fan-base, and they're already a member.
VA Tech: Though I miss the Black Diamond Trophy, Tech had been canvassing to join the ACC for many years prior to the Big East having been founded. Now that they're in, there's no going back for them. Maryland: BB HC, Lefty Driesell, was actually interested in MD joining the Big East. I don't know of a HC, AD, or President prior to that, or since then, who has felt the same way.
This is where BC, Penn St, or both come in. BC is arguably the better choice, given there are already rumblings among a few of the ACC schools to get rid of them in favor of...God knows who.
If Penn St joined, this would be a great addition, and would open up the Big Televen's options for picking up IA St & ND. However, as already stated, a certain individual would have to leave Happy Valley before that happened. Not to mention, ND & the Big Televen would have to come to some accord over revenue sharring.
Memphis: This school has a lot going for it; size, tradition, fan-base, money, etc. Location is the only issue. It's effectively as far removed as USF; not to mention, from USF. If you're gonna get outta the south and stick to the north east, Army has to be part of the equation.
So, looking at what you've suggested and tweaking it a bit, consider the following:
Big East - East Div: Army, BC, Navy, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn
Big East - West Div: Cinci, L'ville, Marshall, Penn St, Pitt, WVU
Now, this is a bit unbalanced, which is why I would opt for leaving USF in there, and picking up C FL, along with Navy & ECU, in favor of Army to set up a North/South format as you have. That is, if neither BC nor Penn St would cooperate, and the Big East feigned inviting Marshall, as I expect they would. So, the possibilities are out there, if only...
1Tomcat
· 4 months ago
Zac Thats all good, but in reality nobody is going to leave the ACC or B-10/11 to go to the BE. I would like to see the B-E pick up a few more as was suggested and become a 12 team conference. I'm afraid that the Big E will have to pick up a few from C-USA,Sunbelt or MAC- The military schools would be a good inclusion-seems like everybody wants to see ECU move up and Marshal fits georaphically- I just don't see BC or VTech or PSU for that matter leaving were they are. If the B-E was to raid C-USA as they did with Louis & Cinni then perhaps C-USa could pick up a couple of Sunbelts or something because they are already a 12 team conference- Troy always has a good program
Zac
· 4 months ago
You're absolutely right, TC; I'm right there with ya. I even put to rest VA Tech ever coming back. The scenario above is more like a "perfect world/best geographic fit" than being realistic. I fully admit that. I honestly think the Big East could work something out with ND & the Big Televen over Penn St. The reason it won't happen is the history between Penn St & Pitt. As long as Joe Pa's alive (May God grant him looong life.), it ain't happn'n, and by the time it might make a difference, it probably won't happen.
Sadly, despite geographic common sense, Marshal ain't happn'n neither. The admins between them & WVU have been at odds for years, even before Pastilong was AD. There's no TV market advantage, given WVU is already the State's flag-ship university and has a strong showing in Huntington. So, it is unlikely the Big East would extend the invite to Marshall, and even less likely that WVU would sponsor it.
Do you remember the rumors about the Big East possibly inviting TCU? While that would be a great addition, the frogs are just too far. The TV market benefits would be off-set by the travel costs. That's why even Memphis, Troy, or UAB would be a stretch, literally.
ECU belongs there. They've been playing Big East teams for years. Either Army &/or Navy brings in lucrative TV markets, plus huge fan bases. The Big East was originally interested in C FL before they picked S FL. While the Bulls already give the Big East a piece of the FL market, C FL would still make a perfect local rivalry for them.
Thing is, you & I and the rest of our buds on here can speculate all we want. The Big Televen & the Big East will do what they're gonna do…or not. I just have this sinking feeling, if the Big Televen makes a move, it'll not only involve the Big East, but it'll put a hurt'n on em.
All Comments
isn't it the point to get ALL BCS conferences to 12 schools with a championship game?
i mean the best way to do it would be like soccer in England.
the bottom two teams in every BCS conference get relegated to a non-BCS conference at the end of every season. then the top two non-BCS schools go to a BCS conference.
it would also take care of the problem of overlooking non-BCS schools.
for example, Utah and Fresno State would already be in the Pac10 replacing Washington and Washington State.
then if Utah could've remained unbeaten in Pac 10 play, they would've been playing Florida for the NC.
and it gets BETTER!
we could have five BCS conferences (SEC, Big 12, Pac 12, ACC, Big Ten(12))
and each conference could be assigned 10 states in which to draw teams from.
The BCS is great because it maintains the value of the regular season. So why not maximise the value of the regular season?
Let the tradition conferences stand, but have them allow thier top teams to represent them in three 12 team geographical supper conference. The conferences split the generated revenue based on the number of teams they have representing them in the super conferences.
The super conferences would play a full round robin with one game reserved to host a non super conference team of their choice. The champions of the three regions and the previous national champion would form a four team playoff. If the previous national champion wins their region, the #2 team from that region would participate.
A full round robin allows head to head tie breakers to be used. In the even of a three way tie for a division, the MOV among the games involving the three teams would be used.
The defending region would visit for the fiorst round and host the championship. The Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl and Orange Bowl could be used for these games.
The remaining 32 super conference teams would be the designated home team for the remaining bowls and be seeded against the top performing non super conference teams that year. The bowl game winners are next year's super conference members. This significantly increases the meaning of the bowls, and thus their value.
The regions are determined by state, not conference alignments. To seed the system we will use the average ranking in the 6 BCS computers over the last 4 years, throwing out the highest and lowest rankings each year.
South: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, Louisianna, Kentucky, (Maryland, UM), North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia
Florida, LSU, Virginia Tech, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, Miami (FL), Clemson, Wake Forest
North: Connecticut, Deleware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, (Maryland, Navy), Massachusetes, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hamphsire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington DC, West Virginia, Wisconsin
Ohio State, Penn State, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Michigan, Boston College, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Rutgers, Northwestern, Michigan State, Pittsburgh
West (20): Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Idaho, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
USC, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise State, Oregon, Texas Tech, Missouri, TCU, BYU, Kansas, Utah, ASU
6 teams: SEC, ACC, Big 10
5 teams: Big East, Big 12
3 teams: PAC 10, MWC
1 team: WAC, Independents
The regular season is amplified, not reduced, and bowls are given a reinvigorated meaning while maintaing conference identities.
I agree, and since meat is the main course in just about every supper, let's call the conferences Ham, Chicken, and Beef! : )
Lamb, Chicken and Beef? Still not vegan...
How would a true cartel respond to an up and comming conference threatening to bust thier little club? They would steal their top teams and leave said conference laying on the side of the road, all while saying they where simply tring to advance thier own leagues.
In this scenario the PAC 10 would take Utah and BYU and the Big 10 would take Iowa State so the Big 12 could get TCU. The MWC problem is solved. Boise State is still floating around, but a cindarella is good for the system.
Notre Dame
I have been enjoying ND's demise the past two years and have been optomistic that they would fall to a point where NBC fails to extent their contract. Only then are they likely to select a conference to join. They will have their pick and I can't say if they would choose the Big 10 or Big East. The Big 10 might descide to not wait, forcing Notre Dame, eventually, to the Big East.
I really think ND is past its low and a 9-3 result is my expectation for them this year, delaying the reduction of TV value. In a down year they sold out the Hawaii Bowl.
Personally I think West Virginia would be the best football value for the Big 10. The Big East should then leave room for Notre Dame and take Navy and Army. This would reinforce the conference's image as historic football powers. With two spots left they could take East Carolina and Memphis to bring in some fresh blood and another strong basketball program.
Only likely expansion
I will be greatly disappointed if the MWC does not announce plans to include Boise State starting in 2010 on June 6th.
Leave them out and their only option would be to go play in 1AA with Northern Iowa, Montana & James F*cking Madison...
Pitt - a likely target, no questions asked.
Miami (OH) - being a private school, and therefore lacking substantial funding, not a likely target. However, if the Big 10 pulls a team from the BE, then the BE would likely target Miami.
Notre Dame - I disagree with "the Big 10 needs ND more" statement. ND is hurting and, while it has its NBC contract and unlimited funding, Charlie isn't getting the Irish into a BCS game anytime soon. Being an Independent, getting into a BCS game is statistically more difficult. Since the Irish play a Big 10 schedule on steroids (with USC, etc.), then joining the Big 10 certainly would benefit the Irish.
Cinci - is in Ohio. What is the largest state university there? Enough said. Ohio is Buckeye country. It might make sense only for lack of other options.
WVU - a solid program but the academics are and always will be too inferior for Big 10 standards.
Iowa State - No. ISU should be happy the Big 12 still wants it. However, the Big 10 would ask ISU before Kansas State.
OTHER CONSIDERATIONS:
Rutgers/Syracuse - Same argument: both in a highly lucrative television market. 'Cuse has tradition, and unlike the Miami argument, tradition brings in money, even for this private school. Rutgers may not have tradition, but who needs tradition when you have tons of money and you are THE state school. Thanks to PSU, the geographics appears to fit.
Kansas State - welcome mediocrity. No thanks.
Memphis - could make it happen but wouldn't be a top choice. Like Cinci in Ohio, the Tigers live in a sea of Orange.
Louisville - no one is really considering the Cardinals but they should be! Yes, it's on a down year in football, but it went to and won the Orange Bowl only a few years back. Decent TV market AND it borders traditional Big Ten country (the midwest). U of L's academics are rapidly on the rise and tons of money is being pumped into its athletic and academic facilities.
I would caution you at looking too closely at just 1) football program and 2) only recent history. Some of the programs that you're not as excited about bring greater strengths than just their football programs.
If so, he is correct that Miami (OH) is not a private school.
As you were!
Big Ten: add Notre Dame and Cincinnati. Lose: Penn State. Adding Cincy has more to do with basketball 2 NC's and very good attendance. ND is pretty obvious.
Big East: add Penn State, Boston College, Army, Navy, Maryland, East Carolina, Marshall. Lose: South Florida, Louisville, Cincinnati. Penn State has always fit better in this conference. Army and Navy are not what they used to be but great tradition and good attendance. I know Maryland used to be part of the south, but I don't think so any more. They can play Duke in nonconference bb. ECU has a great fan base. Marshall would be a good fit for 12.
ACC: add South Florida and South Carolina. Lose: Maryland, Boston College Better geographical fits.
SEC: add Louisville, Memphis. Lose: South Carolina, Vanderbilt. Both would bring a huge basketball base and good football base.
Pac 10: add Utah and BYU
Big 12: add UTEP. Lose: Baylor. good bb tradition and great potential. only game in town or within 500 miles! Baylor can fight with Vandy for the C-USA crown.
MWAC: combine what's left of the Mountain West and Western Athletic minus TCU. Drop Idaho and Utah State or San Jose State.
C-USA: add TCU again, Vanderbilt, Baylor. Lose: Memphis, Marshall, East Carolina.
I've got this stuff at home probably left someone out.
MWAC: Boise State, Hawaii, Nevada, Fresno State, Air Force, New Mexico, San Jose State, CSU, UNLV, Wyoming, SDSU, NW State.
Sun Belt: Add Utah State, again, and Idaho.
Check this out Iowa St goes to B-10/11 then move OU to B-12 north
include TCU in B-12 south-right now seems like the toughest teams are in the south- with OU,Neb,Colo,KU,Missu,KSU in the north UT,TTech,TCU,OK St,A&M,BU in the south-it would strengthen the conference as a whole and perhaps the two best teams would face off in the CCG game
If TCU was in the B-12 they would get a lot of the recruits that now go to OU and UT. TCU has beaten OU,TTech and BU in recent years and would be a great addition to the conference.
All that I'm saying is that if he goes 6-6 in Columbia this year, there's going to be some crowing. I already hear it almost daily. Like I said before, best of luck to him, and I'll be there for a few of them.
By the way, read my post a few posts down. I'm sure you'll agree with that.
Interesting read, if nothing else.
Carnegie recognition
South Carolina is one of only 23 public universities--and the only one in the state--the Carnegie Foundation has recognized for "very high research activity" and "curricular engagement, outreach, and partnerships."
The University's Columbia campus enrollment in fall 2008 was 27,488, including 19,765 undergraduates.
Campuses: 8
Enrollment: More than 41,518 (all campuses, fall 2008)
Disagree with him about his opinion on football, or Spurrier if you want, but he actually has numbers and facts to back up his statement about it being #2 in the state.
Clemson has a higher average GPA for incoming freshmen, along with being more selective, and having a higher average SAT score. South Carolina does not outrank Clemson in any of the categories involving the accepted classes. They haven't in my lifetime either.
US News and World Report:
Clemson - overall 61 - rating of 49 - 50.2% accept.
USC - overall 108 - rating of 38 - 59.4% accept.
This isn't a secret. Everyone seems to know this, except you apparently. USC has a great graduate business program. Hang your hat on that if you want, but don't try to reach for something that isn't there.
Getting back to football, my point in showing you that article is just to show you that opinion isn't rare anymore. Mark it down: 6-6 isn't going to work this season, and if it happens, the crowing is going to be very, very loud in Columbia. Eric Hyman did a lot for his job security by hiring Horn, but there will be pressure on him as well if the football team doesn't show improvements. High recruiting rankings are great and all, but when the schools that rank lower than you every year are the same ones beating you year in and year out, there's a problem in coaching the product on the field.
Heck, I don't even know why I'm arguing this with you. I don't even care if you keep him. It's better for us if you keep him anyway. The guy is really doing well against the Tigers, isn't he? Man, that game in November was really close wasn't it? Bottom line is, this guy has a LONG list of players arrested and in trouble, had a mass exodus of players transferring and leaving early for the NFL, has lost quite a few coaches to other programs, and isn't producing on the field. What indication is there that there will be any actual improvement?
Out of curiosity, what do you think the Gamecocks record will be this year?
By the way, I'd like to sincerely wish the best of luck to the South Carolina baseball team in the SEC tournament this week. I'd like to see both Clemson and South Carolina get regionals, and South Carolina needs to light it up in the SEC tourney to make this happen.
Good luck to your club as well in the Acc tourney.
As an eternal fan and an optimist, I am predicting an undefeated season this year.
We're all stocked up on Bad Ass down here...
SoCar while going .500 against BBQ U has never played Louisville...
But at least they had an ACC Championship and a Heisman winner before stepping in the ring with the Big Boys...
Honestly, I'm shocked you've even brought Memphis into this. Their football team is a mediocre second tier program, and their one shining star, the basketball program, just lost its leader. It's yet to be seen if they'll even continue that recent streak of winning in basketball. Without that, they're just an ugly school with good food and a good party (Beale Street Music Festival).
Okay write this down- BU will be in a bowl this upcoming year and will pull a few upsets in the B-12- seen too many close ones slip away like Neb and TTech last year.
Sicem-Bears
I agree with you on home games at BU, we usually try to attend at least one every year and getting tickets is no problem at all. I'm glad they have Art Briles as head coach and Robert Griffin is an amazing world class atheletee. The big problem with attendance at BU has really been their record, more folks would show up and will in the future, but its kind of hard to sellout games with a 3-9 or 4-8 record. If they were in C-USA or WAC they would be competing for Conf champs, however when you face a schedule like they have Nebraska, Oklahoma,Wake Forest,Texas Tech, OK state and Texas every week is a real big challenge.
I look for them to beat UConn this year and Texas Tech, they have Wake on the road. The B-12 south is indeed a scary place.
Hookem-Horns
Sicem-Bears
South Carolina would fit much better in the ACC and could possibly win. Their lone conference championship was in the ACC in 1969. They should go back, but it will just not happen.
It would be better for Clemson and South Carolina to both be in the ACC because Clemson gains nothing from playing South Carolina OOC every year.
Personally (and I know that this is far from likely), I would love to see Clemson, FSU, and GT in the SEC instead of the ACC.
Let Missouri go to the Big 10, Arkansas to the Big 12 to replace them. Kentucky and Vandy out of the SEC to make room for Clemson, FSU and GT.
New SEC divisions (with cross-division rivals)
WEST:----------EAST:
Bama-----------Clemson
Auburn----------UGA
Ole Miss--------SoCar
Miss St----------GT
LSU--------------Florida
Tenn-------------FSU
See the traditional instate rivals in both divisions? In the East, it would make room for each team to open up another OOC game
Clemson has ties to SoCar, FSU, GT, and UGA - would be a great fit and I would love to see Clemson/Florida or Clemson/Bama...even Clemson/Auburn rivalries start up
The New ACC could look like:
North: BC, UMd, UVa, VT, Syracuse (or WVU) , Vandy (better fit academically)
South: Miami, USF, UNC, Duke, Wake, NC St
This would be strong for basketball (especially with Syracuse or WVU coming in). Football wouldn't be bad either as the "Old ACC" teams are getting stronger and adding USF would help. This would be a nice fit and very competitive.
Do away with the Big Least as a BCS conference and make it only 5 conferences with the conference finishing worst in the BCS standings biting their nails for an At Large bid. The Top 4 conferences get an automatic bid to one of the 4 major bowls (Orange, Sugar, Rose, Fiesta)
My main issue with it is that WVU will never be asked to join the ACC unless they tremendously increase their national standing academically.
The whole thing is highly unlikely, but an interesting and well thought out concept nonetheless.
Also, I think Clemson - Tennessee, FSU - Alabama makes more sense than the opposite.
They may have painted themselves into a corner, but oddly enough, it's worked out. You see, WVU's sports programs still meet or exceed NCAA standards for average GPA and Graduation Rate. So, while on one hand, as an academic hot bed, WVU barely smolders, on the other hand it is a school whoes sports programs will help keep the conference GPA up. WVU would fit anywhere.
I guess WVU will just have to remain the king of the Big East instead.
Here's how I see it if you want 6 power conferences with 12 teams-
Big 10- Pitt. A natural rival for Penn St and good tradition.
Pac- Utah and San Diego St. Utah brings in the Utah/SLC television market and San Diego St. brings in more SoCal viewsers. In addition, SDSU is a research institution with better academics than a Fresno St or Boise St, something that is a huge draw for the Pac 10.
Big LEast- Memphis, East Carolina, Buffalo, UAB. With ECU you get a great fanbase and a decent team. Buffalo gives Syracuse an in state rival and puts the Big LEast in western NY. If the Bill's take off for Toronto, even more reason to try and move in. Memphis and UAB are urban schools that want to join the big time. Take them both and you continue a rivalry and give Louisville and Cincinnati two other urban schools in the southern region.
Just my 2 cents.
But in the interest of what-if scenarios that won't ever happen, but could be fun to think about.... Suppose South Carolina leaves for the ACC and Kentucky for the Big East/Big 10. They could be replaced with Texas and A&M. Imagine this for a divisional lineup.
West
Texas
A&M
Arkansas
LSU
Ole Miss
State
East
Bama
Auburn
Georgia
Florida
Tennessee
Vandy
I like this, actually. All the major rivalries are accounted for in the proper division: Georgia-Auburn, Bama-Tennessee. And the Arkansas-Texas rivalry is now in-conference.
I was what-if'ing though about the conference expanding to 14 teams. Unthinkable, I'll admit, but then again.... Texas and A&M would bring a lot to the conference.... lots of tradition, championships, huge media markets, and recruiting grounds. And both schools certainly fit culturally with the SEC, as would Clemson, FSU, or Ga Tech.
TCU, and Arkansas replacements, then move OU & OK St to the north
North
Neb
Missu
OU
OK st
KSU
KU
South
Arkansas
Texas Tech
Texas
Tex A&M
Baylor
TCU
the B-12 south would resemble the old SWC without SMU,Houston & Rice
Or... what about a 7th BCS conference including... Boise State, Utah, BYU, Fresno St, Colorado State, TCU, SMU, UTEP, Rice, Houston, Tulsa, and somebody else, maybe Wyoming. A couple of good teams and a bunch of decent ones. It'd be stronger than the Big East, perhaps.
Give them an automatic bid to the Fiesta to satisfy their demands. Elevate the Cotton Bowl to BCS and let the Big 12 champ go there.
The next four for consideration (one of which would join IA St in the Big Televen) are Akron, Cincinnati, Miami (OH), & Mizzu. Akron has a decent fan base & a respectable endowment. The school would have to be willing to commit to sports a little harder is all. Cincinnati, without question, has the academics, the endowment, and (more recently) sports respectability in more than just basketball. Miami would not be my 1st pick of this group (I'd lean toward Cinci.). About the same size as BC, they have a good fan base, good academics, and boast an endowment exceeding $300 M. Not to mention, they have had decent football teams in the past. Mizzu, though on the SW fringe, is hardly far removed; a good fit all around.
It would really break my heart to see the Big East lose Pitt. However, it wouldn't surprise me, should a Big Televen school sponsor Pitt's application, to see another PA school push to vote against them. (It was bad enough when the Big East lost VA Tech to ACC expansion.)
I'm personally flattered some of you, including K-Hue, considered WVU, despite its over-all academic woes. Given the BS which revolved around Rich Rodriguez having left WVU for MI, and all the rhetoric about honor, I have to wonder what WVU's Admin would do, if offered a spot in the Big Televen. (It would sure make for an interesting rival with MI.)
Now, if the Big Televen really wanted to piss off WVU, instead of taking Pitt, take Marshall. This is a private school, rich in tradition, rich in academics, and just plain rich. They haven't done badly in sports, either. Though, admittedly, the football program has never been the same since the plane crash. (Fan base is a little small, but not bad.)
The long shots are precisely that: a loooooong ways away. Imagine if IA St joined and had to play Rutgers. OK, it's not quite as bad as Miami (FL) playing BC, but you get the picture.
Of course, a lot of this would hinge upon Penn St joining the Big East, which would bring the Big Televen back to Ten, and would allow them to explore new options. But, that won't happen either; at least not till Joe Pa dies. (Don't know about any of you, but I'm in no hurry for that.)
I agree with one thing: The Big East had better wise up and soon. There are opportunities out there in teams like ECU, Central FL, Marshall, Memphis, and Navy, just to name a few. I've even shown in previous threads how the Big East could add to their megaplex and not lose a thing. But, they haven't listened. But why should anyone be surprised. After all, neither has, or will, the Big Televen.
NORTH SOUTH
1. PITT 1. WVU
2. CIN 2. Lville
3. Syracuse 3. Navy
4. Rutgers 4. Marshall
5. Uconn 5. ECU
6. Temple 6. Vir.Tech or Maryland in trade for USF
if not opt for Memphis over USF.
This may need some tweaking but I think TV wise and travel wise it would benefit everyone most. The Big East title game could be played in Wash. DC, Baltimore or Charlotte. And as far as an ACC/BE trade I think it would work. You could throw Boston College in the mix but that would change the north south dynamics. And lets not forget Notre Dame. I think the Irish would benefit by joining the BE football but that's another story. I think with this setup the BE would grow more than people think.
As an alternative, I would opt for Villanova making the jump back to what is now the BCS level. It's a comparable school in size, academics, fan-base, and they're already a member.
VA Tech: Though I miss the Black Diamond Trophy, Tech had been canvassing to join the ACC for many years prior to the Big East having been founded. Now that they're in, there's no going back for them. Maryland: BB HC, Lefty Driesell, was actually interested in MD joining the Big East. I don't know of a HC, AD, or President prior to that, or since then, who has felt the same way.
This is where BC, Penn St, or both come in. BC is arguably the better choice, given there are already rumblings among a few of the ACC schools to get rid of them in favor of...God knows who.
If Penn St joined, this would be a great addition, and would open up the Big Televen's options for picking up IA St & ND. However, as already stated, a certain individual would have to leave Happy Valley before that happened. Not to mention, ND & the Big Televen would have to come to some accord over revenue sharring.
Memphis: This school has a lot going for it; size, tradition, fan-base, money, etc. Location is the only issue. It's effectively as far removed as USF; not to mention, from USF. If you're gonna get outta the south and stick to the north east, Army has to be part of the equation.
So, looking at what you've suggested and tweaking it a bit, consider the following:
Big East - East Div: Army, BC, Navy, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn
Big East - West Div: Cinci, L'ville, Marshall, Penn St, Pitt, WVU
Now, this is a bit unbalanced, which is why I would opt for leaving USF in there, and picking up C FL, along with Navy & ECU, in favor of Army to set up a North/South format as you have. That is, if neither BC nor Penn St would cooperate, and the Big East feigned inviting Marshall, as I expect they would. So, the possibilities are out there, if only...
If the B-E was to raid C-USA as they did with Louis & Cinni then perhaps C-USa could pick up a couple of Sunbelts or something because they are already a 12 team conference- Troy always has a good program
Sadly, despite geographic common sense, Marshal ain't happn'n neither. The admins between them & WVU have been at odds for years, even before Pastilong was AD. There's no TV market advantage, given WVU is already the State's flag-ship university and has a strong showing in Huntington. So, it is unlikely the Big East would extend the invite to Marshall, and even less likely that WVU would sponsor it.
Do you remember the rumors about the Big East possibly inviting TCU? While that would be a great addition, the frogs are just too far. The TV market benefits would be off-set by the travel costs. That's why even Memphis, Troy, or UAB would be a stretch, literally.
ECU belongs there. They've been playing Big East teams for years. Either Army &/or Navy brings in lucrative TV markets, plus huge fan bases. The Big East was originally interested in C FL before they picked S FL. While the Bulls already give the Big East a piece of the FL market, C FL would still make a perfect local rivalry for them.
Thing is, you & I and the rest of our buds on here can speculate all we want. The Big Televen & the Big East will do what they're gonna do…or not. I just have this sinking feeling, if the Big Televen makes a move, it'll not only involve the Big East, but it'll put a hurt'n on em.