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Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

Zac — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:22:24 -0000

You're absolutely right, TC; I'm right there with ya. I even put to rest VA Tech ever coming back. The scenario above is more like a "perfect world/best geographic fit" than being realistic. I fully admit that. I honestly think the Big East could work something out with ND & the Big Televen over Penn St. The reason it won't happen is the history between Penn St & Pitt. As long as Joe Pa's alive (May God grant him looong life.), it ain't happn'n, and by the time it might make a difference, it probably won't happen.

Sadly, despite geographic common sense, Marshal ain't happn'n neither. The admins between them & WVU have been at odds for years, even before Pastilong was AD. There's no TV market advantage, given WVU is already the State's flag-ship university and has a strong showing in Huntington. So, it is unlikely the Big East would extend the invite to Marshall, and even less likely that WVU would sponsor it.

Do you remember the rumors about the Big East possibly inviting TCU? While that would be a great addition, the frogs are just too far. The TV market benefits would be off-set by the travel costs. That's why even Memphis, Troy, or UAB would be a stretch, literally.

ECU belongs there. They've been playing Big East teams for years. Either Army &/or Navy brings in lucrative TV markets, plus huge fan bases. The Big East was originally interested in C FL before they picked S FL. While the Bulls already give the Big East a piece of the FL market, C FL would still make a perfect local rivalry for them.

Thing is, you & I and the rest of our buds on here can speculate all we want. The Big Televen & the Big East will do what they're gonna do…or not. I just have this sinking feeling, if the Big Televen makes a move, it'll not only involve the Big East, but it'll put a hurt'n on em.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

1Tomcat — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:37:19 -0000

Zac Thats all good, but in reality nobody is going to leave the ACC or B-10/11 to go to the BE. I would like to see the B-E pick up a few more as was suggested and become a 12 team conference. I'm afraid that the Big E will have to pick up a few from C-USA,Sunbelt or MAC- The military schools would be a good inclusion-seems like everybody wants to see ECU move up and Marshal fits georaphically- I just don't see BC or VTech or PSU for that matter leaving were they are.
If the B-E was to raid C-USA as they did with Louis & Cinni then perhaps C-USa could pick up a couple of Sunbelts or something because they are already a 12 team conference- Troy always has a good program

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

U.of S.C.1978 — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:30:14 -0000

Thank you Zac.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

Zac — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:54:17 -0000

You got some interesting ideas there, pckj. I think I would tend to agree with you, in general, but some tweaking would be necessary. For example, Temple: This is a sad story, in my opinion. It's a great school; it's not without some sports tradition (especially basketball), but where football is concerned, it's arguably the worst fan base going. Too few are at all interested. Year after year, Temple consistently failed to meet the average Big East home game attendance criterion. And, you know as well as I; money is what it's all about.

As an alternative, I would opt for Villanova making the jump back to what is now the BCS level. It's a comparable school in size, academics, fan-base, and they're already a member.

VA Tech: Though I miss the Black Diamond Trophy, Tech had been canvassing to join the ACC for many years prior to the Big East having been founded. Now that they're in, there's no going back for them. Maryland: BB HC, Lefty Driesell, was actually interested in MD joining the Big East. I don't know of a HC, AD, or President prior to that, or since then, who has felt the same way.

This is where BC, Penn St, or both come in. BC is arguably the better choice, given there are already rumblings among a few of the ACC schools to get rid of them in favor of...God knows who.

If Penn St joined, this would be a great addition, and would open up the Big Televen's options for picking up IA St & ND. However, as already stated, a certain individual would have to leave Happy Valley before that happened. Not to mention, ND & the Big Televen would have to come to some accord over revenue sharring.

Memphis: This school has a lot going for it; size, tradition, fan-base, money, etc. Location is the only issue. It's effectively as far removed as USF; not to mention, from USF. If you're gonna get outta the south and stick to the north east, Army has to be part of the equation.

So, looking at what you've suggested and tweaking it a bit, consider the following:

Big East - East Div: Army, BC, Navy, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn

Big East - West Div: Cinci, L'ville, Marshall, Penn St, Pitt, WVU

Now, this is a bit unbalanced, which is why I would opt for leaving USF in there, and picking up C FL, along with Navy & ECU, in favor of Army to set up a North/South format as you have. That is, if neither BC nor Penn St would cooperate, and the Big East feigned inviting Marshall, as I expect they would. So, the possibilities are out there, if only...

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

Zac — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:41:35 -0000

In honor of your optimism, best of luck.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

Cards House — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:24:25 -0000

First off, the Big East needs to be more in the Big East market area. Forget this talk of expanding into Texas. That would not go well travel wise and the TV market is tapped out already with Texas, Tex.Tech, Baylor and other Big 12 schools. At the same time you never know what will happen. IMO in order to gain more respect the Big East has to play for a conference championship. The SEC, Big 12 and ACC get the most respect because they play for a conference title. Here is my shake up.

NORTH SOUTH

1. PITT 1. WVU
2. CIN 2. Lville
3. Syracuse 3. Navy
4. Rutgers 4. Marshall
5. Uconn 5. ECU
6. Temple 6. Vir.Tech or Maryland in trade for USF
if not opt for Memphis over USF.

This may need some tweaking but I think TV wise and travel wise it would benefit everyone most. The Big East title game could be played in Wash. DC, Baltimore or Charlotte. And as far as an ACC/BE trade I think it would work. You could throw Boston College in the mix but that would change the north south dynamics. And lets not forget Notre Dame. I think the Irish would benefit by joining the BE football but that's another story. I think with this setup the BE would grow more than people think.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

U.of S.C.1978 — Thu, 21 May 2009 08:41:51 -0000

If it wasn't a rivalry, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Size matters, ask a woman.

Good luck to your club as well in the Acc tourney.

As an eternal fan and an optimist, I am predicting an undefeated season this year.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

aVoiceInSC — Wed, 20 May 2009 09:59:24 -0000

It's not about the academics in the athletics department though. It's about the academics for the entire institution. You've proved why WVU is where they are academically, and I'd love to have them for their athletics, but it's just the way it is. I personally believe that they fit better athletically than Boston College, whatever that's worth.

I guess WVU will just have to remain the king of the Big East instead.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

aVoiceInSC — Wed, 20 May 2009 09:54:59 -0000

So you actually believe that the guy is in some way a homer because he agrees with most everyone else, including US News and the Princeton College Review? Apparently everyone else is a homer too, huh? That's just laughable.

Disagree with him about his opinion on football, or Spurrier if you want, but he actually has numbers and facts to back up his statement about it being #2 in the state.

Clemson has a higher average GPA for incoming freshmen, along with being more selective, and having a higher average SAT score. South Carolina does not outrank Clemson in any of the categories involving the accepted classes. They haven't in my lifetime either.

US News and World Report:
Clemson - overall 61 - rating of 49 - 50.2% accept.
USC - overall 108 - rating of 38 - 59.4% accept.

This isn't a secret. Everyone seems to know this, except you apparently. USC has a great graduate business program. Hang your hat on that if you want, but don't try to reach for something that isn't there.

Getting back to football, my point in showing you that article is just to show you that opinion isn't rare anymore. Mark it down: 6-6 isn't going to work this season, and if it happens, the crowing is going to be very, very loud in Columbia. Eric Hyman did a lot for his job security by hiring Horn, but there will be pressure on him as well if the football team doesn't show improvements. High recruiting rankings are great and all, but when the schools that rank lower than you every year are the same ones beating you year in and year out, there's a problem in coaching the product on the field.

Heck, I don't even know why I'm arguing this with you. I don't even care if you keep him. It's better for us if you keep him anyway. The guy is really doing well against the Tigers, isn't he? Man, that game in November was really close wasn't it? Bottom line is, this guy has a LONG list of players arrested and in trouble, had a mass exodus of players transferring and leaving early for the NFL, has lost quite a few coaches to other programs, and isn't producing on the field. What indication is there that there will be any actual improvement?

Out of curiosity, what do you think the Gamecocks record will be this year?

By the way, I'd like to sincerely wish the best of luck to the South Carolina baseball team in the SEC tournament this week. I'd like to see both Clemson and South Carolina get regionals, and South Carolina needs to light it up in the SEC tourney to make this happen.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

U.of S.C.1978 — Tue, 19 May 2009 22:11:47 -0000

The guy's entitled to his opinion. We have had too many coaching changes in Columbia, that's part of the problem. He's also a homer because he maintains that THE University of South Carolina is the number 2 school in the state.

Carnegie recognition
South Carolina is one of only 23 public universities--and the only one in the state--the Carnegie Foundation has recognized for "very high research activity" and "curricular engagement, outreach, and partnerships."

The University's Columbia campus enrollment in fall 2008 was 27,488, including 19,765 undergraduates.

Campuses: 8

Enrollment: More than 41,518 (all campuses, fall 2008)

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

aVoiceInSC — Tue, 19 May 2009 15:06:10 -0000

An article stating that South Carolina should fire Steve Spurrier.

Interesting read, if nothing else.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

aVoiceInSC — Tue, 19 May 2009 08:34:24 -0000

No, not really. I remember fans just like you are now when Sparky Woods, Brad Scott, and Lou Holtz were all in charge, and those 3 certainly did not need to be the head coach in Columbia. I can respect your opinion that you like the guy, and I'm not trying to say that he deserves to go yet. The lofty hopes that he brought into town with him have not panned out, and he has all of his own players now, so it's time to produce something. Four straight non-losing seasons is certainly not a downgrade, but he's yet to better Lou Holtz (see 2001), and he was definitely expected to do that.

All that I'm saying is that if he goes 6-6 in Columbia this year, there's going to be some crowing. I already hear it almost daily. Like I said before, best of luck to him, and I'll be there for a few of them.

By the way, read my post a few posts down. I'm sure you'll agree with that.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

Zac — Mon, 18 May 2009 22:44:27 -0000

Geographically & academically, the best fits for the Big Televen are IA St & ND. Of course, that means the Big Televen would have to induct ND and receive no share of their TV revenues. The Big Televen won't allow that, which means ND would have to be willing to give up a share of its TV revenues, and since ND won't allow that...

The next four for consideration (one of which would join IA St in the Big Televen) are Akron, Cincinnati, Miami (OH), & Mizzu. Akron has a decent fan base & a respectable endowment. The school would have to be willing to commit to sports a little harder is all. Cincinnati, without question, has the academics, the endowment, and (more recently) sports respectability in more than just basketball. Miami would not be my 1st pick of this group (I'd lean toward Cinci.). About the same size as BC, they have a good fan base, good academics, and boast an endowment exceeding $300 M. Not to mention, they have had decent football teams in the past. Mizzu, though on the SW fringe, is hardly far removed; a good fit all around.

It would really break my heart to see the Big East lose Pitt. However, it wouldn't surprise me, should a Big Televen school sponsor Pitt's application, to see another PA school push to vote against them. (It was bad enough when the Big East lost VA Tech to ACC expansion.)

I'm personally flattered some of you, including K-Hue, considered WVU, despite its over-all academic woes. Given the BS which revolved around Rich Rodriguez having left WVU for MI, and all the rhetoric about honor, I have to wonder what WVU's Admin would do, if offered a spot in the Big Televen. (It would sure make for an interesting rival with MI.)

Now, if the Big Televen really wanted to piss off WVU, instead of taking Pitt, take Marshall. This is a private school, rich in tradition, rich in academics, and just plain rich. They haven't done badly in sports, either. Though, admittedly, the football program has never been the same since the plane crash. (Fan base is a little small, but not bad.)

The long shots are precisely that: a loooooong ways away. Imagine if IA St joined and had to play Rutgers. OK, it's not quite as bad as Miami (FL) playing BC, but you get the picture.

Of course, a lot of this would hinge upon Penn St joining the Big East, which would bring the Big Televen back to Ten, and would allow them to explore new options. But, that won't happen either; at least not till Joe Pa dies. (Don't know about any of you, but I'm in no hurry for that.)

I agree with one thing: The Big East had better wise up and soon. There are opportunities out there in teams like ECU, Central FL, Marshall, Memphis, and Navy, just to name a few. I've even shown in previous threads how the Big East could add to their megaplex and not lose a thing. But, they haven't listened. But why should anyone be surprised. After all, neither has, or will, the Big Televen.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

Zac — Mon, 18 May 2009 21:36:23 -0000

By virtue of a WV State Statute, WVU will never improve academically as a school. By state law, any WV resident, who graduates from their high school with a 2.0 or better, and applies to WVU (or any WV State college or university) has to be accepted.

They may have painted themselves into a corner, but oddly enough, it's worked out. You see, WVU's sports programs still meet or exceed NCAA standards for average GPA and Graduation Rate. So, while on one hand, as an academic hot bed, WVU barely smolders, on the other hand it is a school whoes sports programs will help keep the conference GPA up. WVU would fit anywhere.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

U.of S.C.1978 — Mon, 18 May 2009 21:10:24 -0000

I didn't enjoy it, but I have always acknowledged here that our past is far from glorious on the gridiron. Can you see now why I think it takes a real know nothing fan to suggest that Mr. Spurrier should be replaced?

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

aVoiceInSC — Mon, 18 May 2009 19:14:12 -0000

Actually, I was typing the same response that you wrote when I happened to read jake's post. That's really the only reason that I know. So, I was guilty as well. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

War_Eagle_Atlanta — Mon, 18 May 2009 18:53:32 -0000

I guess I should have read the back threads...

As you were!

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

aVoiceInSC — Mon, 18 May 2009 18:33:26 -0000

To some extent, I'm almost required to take shots at S.Carolina when set up for them. With that said, even though Vanderbilt and South Carolina may not have the history of the other SEC schools, they are certainly more qualified than Memphis or Louisville. The culture, especially at South Carolina, is that of an SEC school. Louisville and Memphis simply cannot compete with that. Not to mention, I believe South Carolina and Vanderbilt would beat Memphis and Louisville on the field, especially if the games were held at the SEC schools' home fields.

Honestly, I'm shocked you've even brought Memphis into this. Their football team is a mediocre second tier program, and their one shining star, the basketball program, just lost its leader. It's yet to be seen if they'll even continue that recent streak of winning in basketball. Without that, they're just an ugly school with good food and a good party (Beale Street Music Festival).

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

aVoiceInSC — Mon, 18 May 2009 18:26:19 -0000

I believe he is referring to jake's statement, "Miami (OH) - being a private school...".

If so, he is correct that Miami (OH) is not a private school.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

War_Eagle_Atlanta — Mon, 18 May 2009 18:01:40 -0000

You are wrong.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

junk_junkerson — Mon, 18 May 2009 16:32:27 -0000

Miami is definitely not a private school.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

Kevin @ Fanblogs — Mon, 11 May 2009 18:26:53 -0000

What makes you think there will be a BCS in 2015? :)

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

4cornerz — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:10:18 -0000

Once the BCS see how nice the New Cotton Bowl Stadium is and how much money they can pimp the Cotton Bowl, mark my words The Cotton Bowl will be apart of the BCS line up starting 2015

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

mrjrebel — Fri, 08 May 2009 00:10:28 -0000

I'd like to see Boise State and Utah join the Pac10 to give them 12, so they could add a championship as well.

Or... what about a 7th BCS conference including... Boise State, Utah, BYU, Fresno St, Colorado State, TCU, SMU, UTEP, Rice, Houston, Tulsa, and somebody else, maybe Wyoming. A couple of good teams and a bunch of decent ones. It'd be stronger than the Big East, perhaps.

Give them an automatic bid to the Fiesta to satisfy their demands. Elevate the Cotton Bowl to BCS and let the Big 12 champ go there.

Re: Big 10 expansion not in the cards, for now

mrjrebel — Fri, 08 May 2009 00:05:42 -0000

I agree Colreb if the SEC were to just add 1 more team. In that event, I think Clemson makes the most sense, to give SC a true rival.

I was what-if'ing though about the conference expanding to 14 teams. Unthinkable, I'll admit, but then again.... Texas and A&M would bring a lot to the conference.... lots of tradition, championships, huge media markets, and recruiting grounds. And both schools certainly fit culturally with the SEC, as would Clemson, FSU, or Ga Tech.