Delaney is most likely the biggest obstacle for any progression in the Big Ten although when there is big money involved that will bring a lot of heads together in the "back room". Nothing will happen until they all can agree on something. IMO it's a no brainer and would be great for the conference. As for who we should be asking to dance, that's a bit trickier. I say NO to ND but if they decide to join before another decision is made then we all know they'll be let in. I've seen Cincinnati brought up on postings with another site and on paper that may be nice but it doesn't bring anything to the table that the conference doesn't already have. The same goes for Pitt and Iowa State. Both markets are already covered within our viewing area. I love the idea of Missouri which increases our boundaries and stays within our region, brings in two new media markets (St. Louis and K.C.), and is the large research institution that the conference requires. That said, I'm not sure what incentive Missouri would have to make that move unless the money generated by the Big Ten is that much larger than what they currently receive from the Big 12. Rutgers makes no sense geographically and Syracuse would only be marginally better.
ksuwild
· 6 months ago
Or they could drop Northwestern (good academics and all) and actually be the Big TEN again.
North Minnesota Wisconsin Michigan Michigan State Iowa
South Illinois Purdue Indiana Ohio State Penn State
Good post WEA
jake
· 6 months ago
No chance. The Big 10 claims to be the best academic major conference. Plus, NU was a founding member of the Big 10.
Additionally, NU football is decent almost every year and occasionally has a (relatively) great year. I would drop Indiana football before NU if we're talking about dropping anyone.
ksuwild
· 6 months ago
Indiana is a powerhouse in basketball so I think they are out of the equation. But that's just my opinion.
I'm not too sure Northwestern is a powerhouse in anything... except academics. It'll probably never happen anyway but they would be my vote to be removed so the academically prestigious Big Ten could once again get their math right.
Wardboy3
· 6 months ago
I'm not too sure Northwestern is a powerhouse in anything... NW is a powerhouse in womens LAX. I think they have 5 straight national championships. Just sayin'
ksuwild
· 5 months ago
You got me there Wardboy3!
Ben Prather
· 6 months ago
So they are going to drop Northwestern and keep the University of Chicago, who dropped athletics entirely in the 1930's?
ksuwild
· 6 months ago
Yep
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
I'm just the conduit. Clemson Joe is the man!
Josh
· 5 months ago
I love this idea and would have no issues with being 10 teams again. They would definitely need to go round-robin like the Pac 10 has done though. But, as Jake has mentioned, they were founding members and is also the institution that is located in the same city as the conference headquarters. Asking them to leave would be difficult so they will just have to continue to take their lumps in sports and be nearly outnumbered in their own arenas during games.
KM405
· 6 months ago
How about Penn State and ND joining the Big East instead? Both conferences go to a more balanced/idealistic 9-game conference schedule w/o a CCG, the Big East is more legit, the Big 10 as snobby as ever, Pitt-Penn State is restored, etc.
Now if the Big 12/SEC would drop two schools and do the same, and 2 more 10-team regional conferences are formed from the leftovers, then you could have 8 conference champs in a playoff (I would add 4-8 at large teams to cover highly-ranked 2nd/3rd-place teams).
The remaining 40 bottom-feeders could then move to FCS, form/reform SunBelt-like conferences, and schedule paycheck games.
[alarm goes off...dream ends]
jake
· 6 months ago
Your proposal is not entirely unrealistic. Since the Big 10 shunned JoePa's comment regarding expansion, I imagine PSU is irritated. If I were the BE, I would extend an offer to PSU with the stipulation that JoePa, as well as the other BE coaches, can recommend expansion options. As long as the BE guarantees an expansion to 12, I believe that would be a fairly attractive offer for PSU. After all, it would get to renew its rivalry with Pitt, gets access to the talent-lucrative NY/NJ recruiting market, and can basically dominate its way to a BCS birth every year.
Of course, I don't think the BE has the balls to make such a move.
KM405
· 6 months ago
If the BE did grow a pair and got NBC to be the Big East Network (featuring ND to keep them happy), then maybe that combo would actually be enough for ND and PSU to make a move.
Maybe the current BE members feel that they can build on their success from the last couple of years (we'll see) and don't want to add 2 major obstacles (regardless of ND/PSU's recent ups and downs) to their own glory.
Even so, they would be greatly improving the chances of increasing the league's shared bowl money (not to mention what NBC would be throwing in) even if they faced a tougher road to the BCS.
jake
· 6 months ago
Unfortunately I don't think NBC would agree with the BE and ND would not allow it. NBC makes way too much money from featuring ND alone and I doubt ND wants to share the spotlight. The BE doesn't really have a bargaining chip in that situation.
jake
· 6 months ago
I like the Great Lakes Conference. The GLC has a nice ring to it. Also, I agree the Big 10 should grab Pitt because it brings solid football and great basketball. SU and Rutgers are (for now) 1-sport schools. If Pitt jumped ship, the Big East would then be forced to get 12 teams even if those teams are not as prestigious as in other conferences. In that situation, the Big 10, BE, and CFB as a whole wins.
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
I completely agree, and that's what I'd love to see happen. Not only would everyone else win, but Notre Dame loses because of it (unless they join the Big East).
The_Central_Scrutinizer
· 6 months ago
GLC is a respectable idea and would only temporarily disturb our sensibilities as when the SWC disbanded in favor of the Big 2(Li'l 6). We seem to have gotten over it.
But I would take issue with the idea of giving ND the rhetorical pass by calling them "the lone independent". I think the desired term is "the lone outcast".
Josh
· 5 months ago
If they move to 12 teams then I agree, I think this would be a great new name. As for Pitt, even if they do appear competetive in sports I don't believe they qualify academically as an institution.
jake
· 5 months ago
Out of curiosity, in what way(s) do you believe Pitt does not qualify academically for Big 10 acceptance?
According to the US News rankings of Top National Universities, Pitt is ranked at #58 of Tier 1 schools. In terms of ranking, Pitt trails behind only Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Illinois, Penn State, and Ohio State; yet, ranks above Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, and Iowa. Academically, Pitt seems like a perfect fit (imo).
Josh
· 5 months ago
"I believe" was stated in respect to another post I have read concerning that matter. I think it had to do with being a research institutionn but I will try and find that post and copy it into here. As for what you are saying in their behalf, it appears that they would be eligible which is great. I don't believe that the Big 10 would be interested in them and I really don't know that Paterno would be interested in them either. Given the fact that we now how four ocg each season he hasn't made much of an attempt to get that rivalry back on track. Besides, he has the advantage of the Big 10 conference all to himself when recruiting PA. On a side note, another interesting post I read had BYU not qualifying for the PAC 10 either. All interesting info.........
jake
· 5 months ago
I read a recent article about how PSU dominates even the Pitt market in recruiting. The fans are calling for the renewed Pitt-PSU rivalry, so I doubt JoePa cares all that much.
What were the details of the BYU news you read?
Josh
· 5 months ago
Hey Jake, It sure took me a while but I found the two posts pertaining to the BYU details you inquited about. Here is a copy and paste of the first one. I have a second one coming. Still looking for the details on the Pitt quote though.
The Pac-10 would not take BYU over Utah. First of all, BYU doesn't play any kind of athletics on Sunday. While this is not a big deal with football, it could be an issue with basketball and other sports. When the MWC was formed, one of the directives was to help support BYU in this policy. I doubt that the Pac-10 would be so accommodating. BYU has also be criticized for not being a strong 'research' university, such as Utah. There have also been issues with bringing in a private religous college, with extreme conservative values, into the more liberal Pac-10 group. I am not saying that I agree with all of these, but they are issues. Ideally, I would like to see both Utah and BYU invited to the Pac-10, but I don't think that Boise State would have a prayer getting into the Pac-10 simply on academics and their other sports
Josh
· 5 months ago
And here's a copy of the second quote. Stayed tuned for Pitt...
What seems to be ignored by the majority of posters and surely the authors is that their are more requirements than playing football to join a conference. The Pac 10 requires participation in at least 11 different NCAA sports and a minimum GPA for admittance. Neither Utah nor BSU meet either of these requirements. In fact, much of the Big 12 and SEC would not be eligible either. It took years for UofA and ASU to raise their programs for admittance to the then PAC 8
Clemson_Joe
· 5 months ago
Source those please. It's tough to back up claims without a source. Someone is bound to attack this. You might as well make a preemptive strike and cut that off at the pass.
Josh
· 5 months ago
I should've qualified this post to begin with. Sorry. These were taken from a similar thread that was ran on SI.com. I can't vouch for how true it may be but thought it was an interesting post and relative to this discussion. There was a good point made about Pitt (again, how true?) joing the Big 10 but I can't seem to find that one to post it here.
Josh
· 5 months ago
Although I can't find the original post pertaining to Pitt, here is a more recent post that states that Pitt soes qualify, as you mentioned before. Another interesting post IMO...This is also from a thread on SI.com that approached this same subject on expansion.
I just wanted to comment on the discussion about academic quality as a factor in conference expansion.
1) It matters very, very much to the Big Ten that the next member be a member of the American Assoc. of Universities, an elite group of 70 major researh schools who can join by invitation only. The B10 and the Ivy League are the only NCAA conferences who have all members in the AAU. Notre Dame isn't in the AAU yet is one of America's 20 best schools, so the Big Ten would make an exception for them and only them. (BTW, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Syracuse are AAU members. Memphis and West Virginia are not, and do not appear likely to join anytime soon.)
2) The Pac-10's emphasis on academics is slightly exaggerated. Most of its schools are rock-solid, but a few of them have fairly open admissions, which isn't a sign of a truly elite group. I'm not suggesting that the Pac 10 would invite anyone just for athletics, but it may be less strict in inviting new members than the Big Ten or the ACC, which leads to my third point.
3) Contrary to what popular opinion seems to be, the ACC can stand toe-to-toe with anyone when it comes to academics. You can bet your bottom dollar that every member, especially Duke, UNC, Wake, and UVa, would have had no part with BC, VT, or Miami if they didn't feel the new schools would enhance the ACC's academic reputation. Each ACC school is a US News Tier 1 university; among FBS conferences, only the Big Ten can claim the same.
jake
· 5 months ago
Very interesting thread about academics. I knew the Big10 and ACC are academically solid, and I assumed the the Pac10 is as well, but after looking at the AAU and US News rankings, the Pac10 evidently exaggerates its academic rep.
Ramblin' Gator
· 6 months ago
Unless I missed something, I really don't see any scenario in which ND joins a conference any time soon. It would require a major collapse of their fan base and their exclusive contracts before I would forecast them joining up.
Pitt would be the optimal expansion choice, IMO.
Why does the conference need a new name? They've been quite happy with their mathematically challenged handle for several years now. Does the incremental inclusion of a greater degree of error provide sufficient motivation for a name change? Those who love the Big-10 seem to defend the numeric error or ignore the criticism. Personally, I'd be embarrassed. Imagine if we changed the name of the SEC to the Southwest Conference - that makes about the same amount of sense.
Thanks Delany and others ought to listen to the PSU coach, he knows that his league would gain respect if a 12th member was added and a Champ game would generate revenue. They don't want to hear his side of the argument, they just hope he fades away, because the powers are resistant to any changes. Iowa St would be my preference freeing up the B-12 for TCU and moving OU to the north- most of the strength of the 12 is in the south- OU,OK St & Texas will all be top ten next season- BU will be much improved and those pesky Red Raiders will always pull off a few upsets. Whoever emerges from the north as champion will play-H against the south champ
burnss10
· 6 months ago
I've said it before...All conferences realign ONE FINAL TIME...it would be great if it were to work out this way.
Missouri to Big 10
NORTH Minnesota Wisconsin Michigan Michigan State Northwestern Iowa
SOUTH Illinois Purdue Indiana Ohio State Penn State Missouri
Arkansas replaces Missouri in the Big 12 because of its ties to the old Southwestern Conference
NORTH Oklahoma Ok St. Kansas Kansas St. Nebraska Iowa St
SOUTH Texas Texas A&M Texas Tech Arkansas Colorado Baylor (or maybe even TCU)
Vandy, Syracuse, USF to ACC
NORTH Syracuse BC Virginia Virginia Tech Maryland Vandy (academics)
SOUTH UNC Duke Wake NCSt Miami USF
(great for football, basketball, and academics)
SEC picks up Clemson, FSU, GT to replace Arkansas and Vandy (Kentucky moves to Big East)
New SEC (with cross-division rivals) WEST.........EAST Alabama.....FSU Auburn.......Georgia Ole Miss.....South Carolina Miss St.......Georgia Tech LSU............Florida Tenn..........Clemson
(or Florida/Tenn and Clemson/LSU...Clemson/LSU would guarantee a matchup in Death Valley every year)
The SEC would be perfect this way...all traditional football schools, unmatched rivalries (each school in the East would free up another OOC game each year by not having to schedule their in-state rival as it would now be a conference game)
Kentcuky moves to the Big East (not that it matters). The Kentucky/Louisville matchup is now a conference game. Big East also picks up East Carolina to get back to 8 teams in football.
PAC 10 picks up BYU and Utah
NORTH Washington Washington St Oregon Oregon St BYU Utah
SOUTH Arizona Arizona St USC UCLA Cal Stanford
Every conference (aside from the Big East) would have 12 teams and a championship game.
Just a thought...but everything seems to work out nicely IMO.
ksuwild
· 6 months ago
Interesting thoughts... What would Missouri have to gain by moving from the Big XII to the Big 10?
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
In my opinion, absolutely nothing at all.
I'm quite eager to hear the answer to this one.
Ben Prather
· 6 months ago
The MWC board of directors met. No word of any talk of expansion. Maybe next year ...
I can still hope that it was agreed to extend an offer to Boise State secretly and they are waiting to make a formal announcement.
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
I'm hoping you're right. It's due time to get that deal done.
Ben Prather
· 6 months ago
Actually I have recently found a sound reason why next year is THE year to add Boise State.
The BCS criteria will next be applied using the data from 2008 through 2011 to determine the automatic qualifications for 2012 & 2013.
The conference membership of 2011 will be where each team's figures for the entire 4 years will count.
If the MWC expanded this year Boise State would be in the MW for 2010 and 2011. By waiting until next year Boise State would only be in the MWC for 2011.
The difference is that in 2010 Boise State would have numbers that count for the MWC but padded by playing in the WAC. This saves TCU, Utah, BYU and Boise State from garnering extra head to head losses in 2010 for the consideration of automatic qualification for 2012 and 2013.
The MWC may be playing the system. Then again, the BCS may be planning to rip them apart by expanding.
Is conference realignment a part of EA sports? "If its in the game, its in the game" right?
Josh
· 5 months ago
As I stated in another blog, possibly the Big 10 income per school is greater than what the Big 12 can offer. With their new TV network that has to be generating some income now as well. Hey Joe, what do you think of the idea of joining the SEC as mentioned above?
burnss10
· 6 months ago
haha, I mean, other than the rivalry with Illinois, nothing. But Missouri is the only team in the Big XII from the state and they have nothing in common with the Big XII. They would fit better in the Big 10 for the Big 10 network. The St. Louis market is huge.
All of the teams I mentioned would fit better with the rivalries in the conferences.
I just did this as fun, and I think it would be very fun to see the conferences realigned like this. College football would be awesome to watch with these new conferences, but other than that...I know none of this would ever happen.
ksuwild
· 6 months ago
"But Missouri is the only team in the Big XII from the state and they have nothing in common with the Big XII."
You're kidding right? They have EVERYTHING in common with the Big XII.
Have you ever heard of the Border War between Missouri and Kansas?
The Missouri-Kansas football series is the second-most-played rivalry in college football history. The teams first matched up in football on October 31, 1891. Both KU and Big 12 record books list the series all-time as 55-53-9 with KU leading, however MU record books list the series as tied 54-54-9. There have been 9 ties in the 117 games played.
This goes waaayyyy back. The only FBS rivals who have met more times on the field than Mizzou v Kansas are Minnesota v Wisconsin and it could easily be argued that the Mizzou v Kansas rivalry far outshines that rivalry in many aspects.
Not to mention Missouri was a founding member of the Big 6 / Big 7 / Big 8 / Big 12.
Why would they fit better in the Big 10 network? Because the St. Louis market is huge??? Why wouldn't that be just as good for the Big 12 as it is for the Big 10?
Read the links I posted please. You were right about one thing... none of this would ever happen... at least when it comes to Missouri leaving the Big XII anyway.
Regan
· 6 months ago
Hey....we do agree on something, ksuwild! :)
ksuwild
· 6 months ago
Roger that!
Bevo_Boy
· 6 months ago
I think it would be better if Iowa St. switched with Missouri, but that's just my opinion. They have a rivalry with Iowa and don't have Missouri's history in the Big XII
ksuwild
· 5 months ago
I agree Bevo_Boy... Iowa St. would definitely work better in that scenario than Missouri.
fosterkeats
· 6 months ago
I would like to participate in whatever you're smoking...
Not a bad scenario, but Kentucky would never leave(or be allowed to leave) the SEC...
Porcine
· 6 months ago
I personally prefer round-robin play, but those days are gone. Missouri would make a good East-West split. Then again they may want to go ACC style and screw it up. The 11 maybe too uppity to let the snake eaters in, but I think West Virginia would be a great fit. Whatever it was that kept them from entering the ACC may have to be changed. Maybe the old Pitt would have been a good fit. One school no one mentions is Nebraska, who has the the fanbase, history, and facilities that might prove worthy. They are no more out of the way than Rutgers or Syracuse, but IMO add more to the pie. Notre dame may not be pushed, but they can be left behind.
Huxley Hofmann
· 6 months ago
Hello, dead horse!
Meet my stick...
Whack, whack, whack...
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
Kinda like Florida players being arrested, huh?
gatorhippy
· 6 months ago
Well...
Sorta...
Conference realignment talk is alot like dragons, elves, and Bobby Bowden's retirement...
Fantasy...
Gators getting arrested is a harsh reality...
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
You got me with the the third thing on that fantasy list...
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
All too true.
vtmechE
· 6 months ago
i'll keep this GLC related, i have tons to talk about expansion
any BE school would be stupid to leave the basketball haven of the big east, the tourney alone made far more money than the big 10 tourney did, and had far more exposure
competitively, missourri or notre dame
geographically, iowa st and notre dame make good choices, as 2 do all the mac schools, missourri extends the big10 borders, however, it should be noted, from columbia, its a short 4 hr drive to each big 12 north school, except colorado
size (fan and school), notre dame fits the bill hands down, iowa st and missourri to a lesser extent
tradition, notre dame, except notre dame also has a big east tradition
market, notre dame, missourri maybe
most to gain: iowa st, the competition has sucked recently, since seneca wallace graduated, lack of tv exposure, other sports lacking, could use a change, make the iowa rivalry relevant, mac schools, i shouldn't have to explain this one
most to lose: notre dame, tv contracts and all
my pick: iowa state, mac school (western michigan, has top notch facilities), either choice would work for the incoming school, iowa state also would bring its world renown wrestling program, as well
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
I just really don't see anyone trying to cherry pick Iowa State to join their conference. I don't even see the MAC doing it.
fosterkeats
· 6 months ago
No matter what happens, I think we can all agree on one thing:
F*CK NOTRE DAME!!!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
Second that.
WarEagleFan
· 6 months ago
The motion as been seconded all in favor say ..I ,opposed ... the motion has passed
Ramblin' Gator
· 6 months ago
Why not? That's pretty much what Notre Dame says to the rest of college football.
Regan
· 6 months ago
RG, you're just mad that Rudy sacked yall's QB...
[LOL, really sorry, bud...I just had to...] :)
Ramblin' Gator
· 6 months ago
I'll never forgive that SOB!!
gatorhippy
· 6 months ago
LMAO!
When I saw your comment in the "Recent Comments" section I thought you were responding to Keats' 'Zooker comment...
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
It did make for quite the dramatic movie ending, though.
Not nearly as dramatic as those scenes in the semi-biographical Forrest Gump, though...
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
Absolutely. Where do we sign up for the anti-fan club?
Josh
· 5 months ago
Count me in!
Clemson_Joe
· 5 months ago
Let me be the first to welcome you to fanblogs. Stick around. The season gets very interesting here.
Could I interest you in adding an avatar, and perhaps (gasp!) revealing your affiliation? You don't have to, but it certainly makes your posts easier to locate.
Josh
· 5 months ago
Hey Joe, I appreciate the welcome. I've added the avatar per your request and that should give you some insight into my affiliation. Let me say that although I do follow the Buckeyes I love the Big 10 conference and college football in general. I hate to wish away the summer but September can never get here soon enough for me. I follow all of the conferences as if I was studying for a Masters Degree <g>.
Clemson_Joe
· 5 months ago
Sorry for the delay in replying.
I think we can safely say that you are in the same group with everyone else here wishing away the summer. September 3rd can't get here fast enough. Coincidentally I have an obligation and that I don't care for at all that ends on August 31st, so I really can't wait for football season to get here.
I wish someone reputable did offer a Master's degree on college football. That might be the only thing that would truly inspire me to get one.
Anyway, stick out the summer. The regular season is a great time here. We also do a "pick'em" during the season for craps and laughs that is quite entertaining.
jake
· 6 months ago
Considering how many Notre Dame fans exist, I don't recall ever seeing a Notre Dame fan post on this or any other thread on fanblogs. Do they know that everyone else hates them?
WarEagleFan
· 6 months ago
There was one here a few years ago JTirish but he left about the same time ND tanked
Ben Prather
· 6 months ago
Let them have a good year. They will magically appear like the Alabama fans did this year.
gatorhippy
· 6 months ago
That's the great thing about Gator fans...
Even in thin times, we're still around and ridiculously obnoxious...
Ben Prather
· 6 months ago
I don't remember any 3-9 or 6-6 thin times in recent Florida history.
fosterkeats
· 6 months ago
(with my hand over my mouth while coughing) "HrrrrRonzook" "KaaaaGalenhall"
Every school has Bandwagon fans, as well as the "Dirt Road Alumni", those people who have only been on campus during sporting events...
When Brian-Dennehy Staduim expands to 102k, we'll have/need a lot more...
gatorhippy
· 6 months ago
At Florida, single digit win seasons are counted as thin...
Understandable you wouldn't realize this as 8 & 9 wins at schools of those on the outside looking in are the norm and to be celebrated as moral victories...
1Tomcat
· 6 months ago
No don't let them have a good year-whup them into joining a conference out of desperation There are only a few teams with a winning record against Texas USC, Vanderbilt 1928------- fill in the blank
gatorhippy
· 6 months ago
BTW, Jake..
Not that it has anything to do with this thread...
But we have so few Purdue posters around (I think you might actually be the only one) that I never get to drop this little G-Hippy biographical tidbit...
I caught passes in NAIA ball from a former Purdue QB who joined our squad for one season...
jake
· 6 months ago
That is interest. Do you remember the player by chance?
I've only recently become a Purdue fan. Since I did not attend a football university but grew up in the midwest, I have always been a general fan of the Big T(elev)en. However, I recently adopted a following of Purdue because I now live in northern Indiana, my brother-in-law went to Purdue and has taken me to a few games, and I eternally hate everything Notre Dame.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
Nice try, Jake. Gatorhippy may drop passes, but he doesn't drop names...
But I think I heard at one time that the name of the QB might be Hoffman...
1Tomcat
· 6 months ago
We had a guy from this area play QB at Purdue
Bevo_Boy
· 6 months ago
That shouldn't be a surprise, though. Look at how many college qb's come from the state of Texas. They even showed it on College Gameday
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
Drew Brees?
1Tomcat
· 5 months ago
Right Joe At the begining of the season last year I posed the question as to which Texas QB would have the biggest impact on the season. After the season is over its still open for debate. Harrel @ Texas Tech Snead @ Ole Miss Johnson @ Utah McCoy @ Texas Reesing @ Kansas Stafford @ Georgia Dalton @ Texas Christian Daniel @ Missouri Clement @ Rice All these guys had outstanding winning teams and all won their bowl games the exception being Harrell-who held a lot of Texas H/S records, many of which were broken by Gilbert- fresh QB @ Texas I was most impressed by Griffin @ Baylor this guy is real exciting to watch and liked to pull upsets over Texas Tech,Nebraska and Missouri-next year I look for him and Mallet @ Arkansas to make some waves in CFB I'll also be watching McElroy @ Alabama
Huxley Hofmann
· 6 months ago
Nowhere close, bud...
But you would be correct in that I don't necessarily want to pass his name out on the "open airwaves" here...
Simply because I wouldn't want to drag out why exactly he ended up with us for his senior season of eligibility...
But I will put the name in your e-mail box, WEAtl...
Regan
· 6 months ago
I love Joe Pa to death, but he's way outside the envelope here as far as the Big Ten goes, IMHO.
I honestly don't think the Big Ten will expand for any reason, unless ND comes calling; then they will snatch them up in a heartbeat.
The Big Ten doesn't have that interest to do the 12-team superconference thing either. They love having OHST-MICH that last weekend and have no reason to change anything.
HOWEVER, having said that, I'll play:
Big Ten Expansion Candidates (no particular order):
> Notre Dame: The second the Irish offer, it's done, although it's more likely the Big Ten will have to join the Notre Dame Conference.
[ Personally, I like ND just fine as an Independent; I like unique things, and whether you love them or hate them, Notre Dame is truly unique and adds something to CFB. Everyone can hate the Irish for getting special treatment, but let's face it - the Irish bring emotions to a fever pitch - adoring, screaming fans or outraged Fanbloggers screaming for blood. C'mon, yall...would CFB be better off by taking that away? :) ]
> Pittsburgh: My pick for the #2 candidate. Everyone and their cousin wants PSU and PITT in the same conference. Save Joe Pa, if PITT fans are to be believed.
> Rutgers: I don't see this happening; RUTG is geographically isolated from the midwest, and I don't see much in terms of powerhouse-ness to see the Big Ten expand.
> Missouri: Unless the Big 12 collapses, I don't see MIZZ moving. There is no reason to jump ship from a 12-team superconference to form another 12-team superconference, especially if major longtime rivals NEB and KAN are already on your slate.
> Syracuse: I'm thinking TV market and basketball here, the CFB team doesn't bring much to the table, but if we're in the land of fantasy, ya can't discount the 'Cuse.
> West Virginia: If you're looking for a consistent and strong CFB program, it would be tough to find better than WVU; although I doubt the Big Ten would bring in WVU instead of PITT...
> Boise State/Utah: LOL, just sayin'...wow would that settle some issues.... :)
Ben Prather
· 6 months ago
What about TCU instead of Boise State/Utah?
Most figure Missouri(Or Iowa State) would be good so the Big 12 can take TCU and the PAC 10 can take two of Utah/BYU/Boise State. Why not skip the Big 12 and bring Texas into the Big 10 recruiting?
Just sayin'
badgerballer
· 6 months ago
This is a fight I've been picking for YEARS. And I, for one, wish we could add Norte Dame & split into two 6-team divisions. Although in year's past I've divided the confernce East/West, principle is still the same. The permanent rivalries that must persist are:
Mich/OSU Mich/Mich State Mich/Minn (curse that damned jug) Wisc/Minn (we OWN the axe) Purdue/Iowa
Screw the rest of 'em.
Oh, and NW has to stay. SEC has its Vandy. Pac10 has its Stanford. Big12 has its Baylor. There has to be a place for the brainy athletes to earn the degrees they want, need & seek - while still being able to compete on a top tier.
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
I was hoping you'd comment on this thread. In my North/South alignment in the original post, could you please help me assign "permanent rivals" to each team? I don't know much about the rivalries in the Big Televen, and I'd like to get that straightened out. If you don't mind doing it, of course. Thanks.
badgerballer
· 6 months ago
Sure. But the terms "assign" and "permanent rivals" tend to conflict, in my mind. Are you looking for a little history, in terms of historic rivalries that should remain intact, or to set up new ones according to the new (ficticious) alignment? If the latter, then I'd think you can do that perfectly well w/o input.
Also, I'm assuming that each team in each division must play every other team within its division, hence 6 games. + 3 powderpuff, errrr, ahh,...make that non-conference game, + 3 cross-divisional games each year. So a "permanent rivalry" could not consist of teams residing in different divisions b/c they would not be able to or required to play each other every single year. Does that assumption hold water?
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
You're right in the fallacy of the term "assign". What I meant is that I need help because I know virtually nothing of the already existing rivalries amongst the teams in the Big Televen. I know that Michigan - Ohio State would be one, but I know no others. Obviously with the introduction of Pitt, a new "rivalry" must be created, but I would hope that there could be a solution with either a team that doesn't have strong rivalries in the South, or a team that has a bit of history with Pitt already.
In the ACC, we play 5 divisional games (FSU, NC State, Wake, BC, Maryland) every year. Our "permanent rival", who is actually a rival, is Georgia Tech. So, we play the 5 in our division every year, and we play GT every year. Outside of that, we rotate 2 Coastal division opponents each year, and then of course we have our 4 OOC games. This is the same way that the SEC implements it as well.
So, due to my lack of knowledge of existing rivalries, I needed help in assigning the permanent rivalries to my fictitious plan for the Big Televen.
gatorhippy
· 6 months ago
The SEC interdivisional play rotation is "staggered" in biannual increments as home & home (or "offset" depending on which term you prefer) with one permanent annual assignment...
Using the Gators as an example...
Their current permanent interdivisional opponent is LSU...
Then the rest of the division is rotated as such...
2006 Bama (G-Ville) Auburn (@ Auburn)
2007 Ole Miss (@ Oxford) Auburn (Hogtown)
2008 Ole Miss (Hogtown) Arkansas (@ Fayetteville)
2009 Arkansas (Hogtown) Miss St (@ Starkville)
2010 Miss St (Hogtown) Bama (@ Tusacaloosa)
So it takes nearly 5 seasons to work through the other 5 teams in the other divisions...
Also the conference moves those games around in the order they are played when conference play begins...
While Tennessee is currently always the SEC opener for the Gators the West opponenets on rotation sometimes are back to back right after the opener...
Some years they are moved more to the middle of conference play sandwiched around the LSU game which is normally in the first two weeks of October...
I believe the league does this in order to keep the schedules "fresh" but also making an attempt at establishing a tradition when the league went to divisional play...
For example the UF/UT game being the traditional SEC opener for both or the time honored 'Third Saturday in October' for Bama and the Vols...
I thought the ACC did the same but guess I was mistaken if you're saying Clemson switches both interdivisional rotaters each year...
If that is how they do it I find it interesting and wonder why they would do it that way...
Do they move those games around in conference play in a similiar fashion as I described above or are the rotation games always in the same slots?
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
Yeah, we do it the same way. I just didn't need to go that far into detail with my hypothetical North/South model for the Big Televen. I just need someone that has some knowledge of the existing rivalries in the conference to help me select the "permanent rivals" for my model. I've yet to find anyone though.
badgerballer
· 6 months ago
Sir, I am that man. Just got ultra busy with kids & weekend commitments. These are, imho, the biggest rivalries, ranked from 1st thru 10th.
1. Ohio State/Michigan - needless to say That dirty, lie'n, good-for-nut'n, no-personality, useless, excuse of an S.O.B., Senator Tressell....grrrr!
2. Wisconsin/Minnesota - the battle for "Paul Bunyon's Axe" The longest standing football rivalry in NCAA, has been played for something like 110 years.
3. Michigan/Minnesota - "The Little Brown Jug" Like WI/MN, this isn't a game likely to decide a conf. championship or anything, but its old & full of tradition. For those that don't know, the story of the jug is a classic. Some Minnesota coach, way back when (possibly even in the 1800's) either said he didn't like Michigan so much he wouldn't even drink the water there - or - that he thought the student body was so dirty they'd try to poison him (depending on which version you subscribe to), that he told a staffer to go down to the corner store & get him a jug he could carry his own water in. The rest is history.
4. Michigan/Michigan State - "Paul Bunyon Trophy" Apparently Bunyon was big in these parts back in the day.
5. Indiana/Purdue - "Old Oaken Bucket"
6. Wisconsin/Iowa - "Heartland Trophy" Rivalry has been made all the more intense in recent years with one-time Hawkeye, Bret Bilema, making the defection to the enemy camp.
7. Michigan/Penn State - "Land Grant Trophy" I had to throw the State Penn in there, but truth is, with State Penn being a relative new-comer to the conference, they really have no historical arch rival(s)
8. Illinois/Purdue - "Purdue Cannon" Even when both teams are mediocre, or worse, this game is typically a real smash-mouth affair. When the trophy at stake is not neutral, as in this case, one side darn sure doesn't want to lose it, the other darn sure wants to take it.
9. Ohio State/Penn State No real history & no trophy on the line. Just a good matchups of traditional national power houses.
10. Minnesota/Iowa - "Floyd of Rosedale trophy" Don't ask. Just another one of those games that's been played every year since Jefferson was in office.
11. (runner up) Illinois/OSU - "Illinibuck" So that's what I'd call the top 10, in terms of fierce, mid-western, 'man I hate those guys' kind of games. How you'd like to divy them up and parcel them out as 'permanent rivalries' is up to you. But with the alignment you have it shouldn't be too tough. My guess it that you'd have to have Pitt/PSU in there, and maybe even Pitt/MSU simply by virtue of geographic proximity.
TheMayor
· 6 months ago
Uh sorry, in reference to #2...the Ducks and Beavers have played 112 times since 1894....longest rivarly west of the Mississippi in NCAA football (I think).
"At 116 games and counting, the series between Minnesota and Wisconsin ranks as the longest in Division 1-A football"
Huxley Hofmann
· 6 months ago
You don't really need to be in tune with the current rivalries in order to have effective scheduling...
Assignations can blossom into full blown rivalries in a short time...
For example...
Before the current scheduling format, each SEC team was assigned two permanent interdivisional opponents in order to honor many of the exisiting rivalries...
However, the issue with that is it made the scheduling a bit unbalanced...
For example, Auburn had Florida & Georgia as their permananet IDOs...
Two very important rivalry games for the Plainsmen each year in the "old" SEC with Dawgs & Tigers games being played for a VERY long time (South's longest standing series, I believe) and UF/Auburn being competitive and had a high rate of exchange in the old days between graduate programs fueling an intense rivalry...
However, when the divisional play was revamped UF/AU was dropped in foavor of an annual UA/UGA matchup due to it's history and rightfully so...
This left UF with their assigned annual contest against LSU which before divisional play wasn't an annual contest for either even in the "old" days...
The interesting thing is that in the less than 15 years since the divisional split, this has arguably become one of the hottest rivalries in the conference...
In the end, I wouldn't be so concerned with perserving "traditional" rivalries when looking at interdivisional play...
Putting to new teams togoether annually can be a better move and develop new lore and history in a short time with just about the same level of 'hate"...
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
That's true, but the Big Televen has a ton of history as the oldest conference, and I wanted to try to preserve that with my model.
Heck, we even have a trophy for our "rivalry" with Boston College now.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 6 months ago
Yes, what a tough call for Auburn to have made. Dropping Florida from our annual schedule was hurtful, even more so than having to choose between Florida and Tennessee in 1992.
DOH!!! Didn't see this & follow the link until AFTER I'd typed up that dissertation above. Could've saved myself 10 minutes of typing.
Clemson_Joe
· 6 months ago
It's cool. I certainly appreciate what you did for me. Unfortunately those rivalries only include one match up with teams in opposite divisions in my model.
Okay, so then I'd have it like this:
North Michigan Minnesota Wisconsin Michigan State Northwestern Iowa
South Ohio State Illinois Purdue Indiana Penn State Pittsburgh
Permanent rivalries as follows: Michigan - Ohio State Michigan State - Indiana (Old Brass Spittoon) Northwestern - Illinois (Land of Lincoln Trophy) Minnesota - Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell) Iowa - Pittsburgh Wisconsin - Purdue
Josh
· 5 months ago
I suppose I could live with this setup. The South Division seems a bit more competitive but if Dantonio keeps the Spartans on track and UW and Iowa get themselves back in the right direction that division could be very competitive also.
Ryan Parker
· 6 months ago
Here is how i hope the conference alignment shakes down.
SEC/ACC remain the same
Big ten takes on Notre Dame
Pac 10 takes on BYU and Utah
Big East splits from non football schools and takes on ECU, UCF, Memphis, Temple, and Army Navy as football only members. (take on army navy for the television rights to the army navy game, which is worth $$$$$$$$$$$)
Mountain West/Wac form a semi merger to create a 12 team league
Conference USA - Does a merger with the sunbelt to keep a 12 team league, also add South Alabama and Texas State once they become full Division 1-a programs
New Southwest conference - there has been much talk about the western teams in the conference usa splitting to form there own conference, and i believe they do this with some other conference usa members and LT, new mexico and nmsu.
This is alot of change but i feel this would optomize travel cost and enhance region rivalries...Thoughts?
New Conference Alignment ACC Standings ATLANTIC Boston College Clemson Florida State Maryland North Carolina State Wake Forest COASTAL Duke Georgia Tech Miami (FL) North Carolina Virginia Virginia Tech
Big 12 Standings NORTH Colorado Iowa State Kansas Kansas State Missouri Nebraska SOUTH Baylor Oklahoma State Oklahoma Texas Texas A&M Texas Tech
Big East Standings North Navy Connecticut Pittsburgh Rutgers Syracuse West Virginia Army South East Carolina Louisville Memphis South Florida Cincinnati UCF Temple
Big Ten Standings West Illinois Michigan Michigan State Minnesota Northwestern Wisconsin East Indiana Iowa Notre Dame Ohio State Purdue Penn State
Conference USA Standings East Marshall Middle Tennessee State Arkansas State Florida Atlantic Western Kentucky Florida International West Troy North Texas Louisiana-Lafayette Louisiana-Monroe South Alabama Texas State
Mid-American Standings EAST Akron Bowling Green Buffalo Kent State Miami (OH) Ohio WEST Ball State Central Michigan Eastern Michigan Northern Illinois Toledo Western Michigan
Mountain West Standings East Air Force Boise State Colorado State Utah State Wyoming Idaho West Fresno State Hawaii Nevada San Diego State UNLV San Jose State
Pacific-10 Standings North Brigham Young Oregon Oregon State Utah Washington Washington State South Arizona Arizona State California Stanford UCLA USC
SEC Standings EAST Florida Georgia Kentucky South Carolina Tennessee Vanderbilt WEST Alabama Arkansas Auburn LSU Mississippi Mississippi State
New Southwestern Conference/WAC East Louisiana Tech Tulsa Houston Southern Miss Tulane UAB West New Mexico State TCU UTEP SMU New Mexico Rice
Ryan Parker
· 6 months ago
you could also realign the acc like this North BC Maryland UVA VT Duke UNC
Actually, I liked your post and don't see where a geography lesson would be necessary. Given your two options on the ACC lineup I think I prefer the first one on your original post. Yes, there would be many changes to get to this alignment but not nearly as bad as it could be if the Big Televen raided the Big 12.
Porcine
· 5 months ago
He used a lot of geographical divisions, yet had spread all over the place.
Do you have that image (full size) saved? I can't find it online anymore and was trying to access it the other day. If you do have it, would you be willing to email it to me? It would certainly be much appreciated.
Of course this is all fantasy, & none of it likely to happen in our life times. Why the knuckleheads running the Big10 don't wake up, see the obvious & embrace change is anyone's guess. It totally sux that our teams all have this massive 5- 7 week layoff from the final game of the regular season until their bowl game. We totally drop off the radar & gone from the discussion for over a month. A conference title game would put the Big10 right there in the nat'l spot light along with the other BCS conferences, the payday would be huge, and both the winner & the loser wouldn't be so 'gone & forgotten'.
However, if the idea of expanding were to take on some form of reality, I tend to think that a/the likely candidate might be Iowa State. There's a great natural rivalry. The Big12 is certainly doing ISU no favors. And it makes a lot more sense geographically than, say, a Rutgers. A top or even mid-tier MAC team might make sense for the same reasons. Heck, we already play the hell outta that conference every year anyway - might as well make it offical.
1Tomcat
· 5 months ago
Good post I totally agree-The CCG game would give more Nat exposure and $$. Iowa st would be a good fit. They would probably do better in the recruiting game as well and become more competative against the B-10/11 schools.
Josh
· 5 months ago
I say no to the MAC although I would imagine you said that tongue-in-cheek. They are our version of the Sun Belt Conference. We can get them as relatively easy home games without returning the home-and-home favor, although Indiana and Minnesota did decide to travel to the MAC recently. I'm also not at all enthused with the idea of Iowa State. Yes, they are in Big 10 territory and have a natural rival in the conference but they really bring no excitement or any other benefits to us. Missouri would be an awesome catch but a complete longshot.
vtmechE
· 5 months ago
dream conference scenarios aside, i would think one of the michigans would be a good fit for the big televen
hrposon
· 5 months ago
ksuwild mentioned that the Big 10 could drop Northwestern which reminds of something I remember once hearing. All the major conferences like to keep a private school in their conference because a private school doesn't have to disclose as much info as a public school. To keep things even, the public schools in a conference then agree they aren't required to disclose any more than the private school. Can anyone confirm that there is any truth to that statement?
Clemson_Joe
· 5 months ago
I don't know anything about whether or not that's true, but it certainly is an intriguing sentiment. We, in the ACC, have 4 so I think we're all covered there.
Go Blue Jeff
· 5 months ago
Personally, I'd get rid of OSU... Maybe that's the snake oil taking effect...lol...
No, but really... I'd take just about anybody that's decent. Why does it have to be a school that brings something different?? I say, as long as they are a reputable institution, academically as well as athletically....bring em on... Haven't heard anybody mention them, so I will....
Louisville would suit me just fine... Great basketball. Good football. Pitino within our conference adds another snake oil salesman to the fold...lmao...
All Comments
North
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
Michigan State
Iowa
South
Illinois
Purdue
Indiana
Ohio State
Penn State
Good post WEA
Additionally, NU football is decent almost every year and occasionally has a (relatively) great year. I would drop Indiana football before NU if we're talking about dropping anyone.
I'm not too sure Northwestern is a powerhouse in anything... except academics. It'll probably never happen anyway but they would be my vote to be removed so the academically prestigious Big Ten could once again get their math right.
NW is a powerhouse in womens LAX. I think they have 5 straight national championships. Just sayin'
Now if the Big 12/SEC would drop two schools and do the same, and 2 more 10-team regional conferences are formed from the leftovers, then you could have 8 conference champs in a playoff (I would add 4-8 at large teams to cover highly-ranked 2nd/3rd-place teams).
The remaining 40 bottom-feeders could then move to FCS, form/reform SunBelt-like conferences, and schedule paycheck games.
[alarm goes off...dream ends]
Of course, I don't think the BE has the balls to make such a move.
Maybe the current BE members feel that they can build on their success from the last couple of years (we'll see) and don't want to add 2 major obstacles (regardless of ND/PSU's recent ups and downs) to their own glory.
Even so, they would be greatly improving the chances of increasing the league's shared bowl money (not to mention what NBC would be throwing in) even if they faced a tougher road to the BCS.
But I would take issue with the idea of giving ND the rhetorical pass by calling them "the lone independent". I think the desired term is "the lone outcast".
According to the US News rankings of Top National Universities, Pitt is ranked at #58 of Tier 1 schools. In terms of ranking, Pitt trails behind only Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Illinois, Penn State, and Ohio State; yet, ranks above Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, and Iowa. Academically, Pitt seems like a perfect fit (imo).
What were the details of the BYU news you read?
The Pac-10 would not take BYU over Utah. First of all, BYU doesn't play any kind of athletics on Sunday. While this is not a big deal with football, it could be an issue with basketball and other sports. When the MWC was formed, one of the directives was to help support BYU in this policy. I doubt that the Pac-10 would be so accommodating. BYU has also be criticized for not being a strong 'research' university, such as Utah. There have also been issues with bringing in a private religous college, with extreme conservative values, into the more liberal Pac-10 group. I am not saying that I agree with all of these, but they are issues. Ideally, I would like to see both Utah and BYU invited to the Pac-10, but I don't think that Boise State would have a prayer getting into the Pac-10 simply on academics and their other sports
What seems to be ignored by the majority of posters and surely the authors is that their are more requirements than playing football to join a conference. The Pac 10 requires participation in at least 11 different NCAA sports and a minimum GPA for admittance. Neither Utah nor BSU meet either of these requirements. In fact, much of the Big 12 and SEC would not be eligible either. It took years for UofA and ASU to raise their programs for admittance to the then PAC 8
I just wanted to comment on the discussion about academic quality as a factor in conference expansion.
1) It matters very, very much to the Big Ten that the next member be a member of the American Assoc. of Universities, an elite group of 70 major researh schools who can join by invitation only. The B10 and the Ivy League are the only NCAA conferences who have all members in the AAU. Notre Dame isn't in the AAU yet is one of America's 20 best schools, so the Big Ten would make an exception for them and only them. (BTW, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Syracuse are AAU members. Memphis and West Virginia are not, and do not appear likely to join anytime soon.)
2) The Pac-10's emphasis on academics is slightly exaggerated. Most of its schools are rock-solid, but a few of them have fairly open admissions, which isn't a sign of a truly elite group. I'm not suggesting that the Pac 10 would invite anyone just for athletics, but it may be less strict in inviting new members than the Big Ten or the ACC, which leads to my third point.
3) Contrary to what popular opinion seems to be, the ACC can stand toe-to-toe with anyone when it comes to academics. You can bet your bottom dollar that every member, especially Duke, UNC, Wake, and UVa, would have had no part with BC, VT, or Miami if they didn't feel the new schools would enhance the ACC's academic reputation. Each ACC school is a US News Tier 1 university; among FBS conferences, only the Big Ten can claim the same.
Pitt would be the optimal expansion choice, IMO.
Why does the conference need a new name? They've been quite happy with their mathematically challenged handle for several years now. Does the incremental inclusion of a greater degree of error provide sufficient motivation for a name change? Those who love the Big-10 seem to defend the numeric error or ignore the criticism. Personally, I'd be embarrassed. Imagine if we changed the name of the SEC to the Southwest Conference - that makes about the same amount of sense.
May he coach until the BCS drops dead!
Iowa St would be my preference freeing up the B-12 for TCU and moving OU to the north- most of the strength of the 12 is in the south- OU,OK St & Texas will all be top ten next season- BU will be much improved and those pesky Red Raiders will always pull off a few upsets. Whoever emerges from the north as champion will play-H against the south champ
Missouri to Big 10
NORTH
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
Michigan State
Northwestern
Iowa
SOUTH
Illinois
Purdue
Indiana
Ohio State
Penn State
Missouri
Arkansas replaces Missouri in the Big 12 because of its ties to the old Southwestern Conference
NORTH
Oklahoma
Ok St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Nebraska
Iowa St
SOUTH
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Arkansas
Colorado
Baylor (or maybe even TCU)
Vandy, Syracuse, USF to ACC
NORTH
Syracuse
BC
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Maryland
Vandy (academics)
SOUTH
UNC
Duke
Wake
NCSt
Miami
USF
(great for football, basketball, and academics)
SEC picks up Clemson, FSU, GT to replace Arkansas and Vandy (Kentucky moves to Big East)
New SEC (with cross-division rivals)
WEST.........EAST
Alabama.....FSU
Auburn.......Georgia
Ole Miss.....South Carolina
Miss St.......Georgia Tech
LSU............Florida
Tenn..........Clemson
(or Florida/Tenn and Clemson/LSU...Clemson/LSU would guarantee a matchup in Death Valley every year)
The SEC would be perfect this way...all traditional football schools, unmatched rivalries (each school in the East would free up another OOC game each year by not having to schedule their in-state rival as it would now be a conference game)
Kentcuky moves to the Big East (not that it matters). The Kentucky/Louisville matchup is now a conference game. Big East also picks up East Carolina to get back to 8 teams in football.
PAC 10 picks up BYU and Utah
NORTH
Washington
Washington St
Oregon
Oregon St
BYU
Utah
SOUTH
Arizona
Arizona St
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Every conference (aside from the Big East) would have 12 teams and a championship game.
Just a thought...but everything seems to work out nicely IMO.
I'm quite eager to hear the answer to this one.
I can still hope that it was agreed to extend an offer to Boise State secretly and they are waiting to make a formal announcement.
The BCS criteria will next be applied using the data from 2008 through 2011 to determine the automatic qualifications for 2012 & 2013.
The conference membership of 2011 will be where each team's figures for the entire 4 years will count.
If the MWC expanded this year Boise State would be in the MW for 2010 and 2011. By waiting until next year Boise State would only be in the MWC for 2011.
The difference is that in 2010 Boise State would have numbers that count for the MWC but padded by playing in the WAC. This saves TCU, Utah, BYU and Boise State from garnering extra head to head losses in 2010 for the consideration of automatic qualification for 2012 and 2013.
The MWC may be playing the system. Then again, the BCS may be planning to rip them apart by expanding.
Is conference realignment a part of EA sports? "If its in the game, its in the game" right?
All of the teams I mentioned would fit better with the rivalries in the conferences.
I just did this as fun, and I think it would be very fun to see the conferences realigned like this. College football would be awesome to watch with these new conferences, but other than that...I know none of this would ever happen.
You're kidding right? They have EVERYTHING in common with the Big XII.
Have you ever heard of the Border War between Missouri and Kansas?
You might want to read this burnss10:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Showdown
The Missouri-Kansas football series is the second-most-played rivalry in college football history. The teams first matched up in football on October 31, 1891. Both KU and Big 12 record books list the series all-time as 55-53-9 with KU leading, however MU record books list the series as tied 54-54-9. There have been 9 ties in the 117 games played.
This goes waaayyyy back. The only FBS rivals who have met more times on the field than Mizzou v Kansas are Minnesota v Wisconsin and it could easily be argued that the Mizzou v Kansas rivalry far outshines that rivalry in many aspects.
Not to mention Missouri was a founding member of the Big 6 / Big 7 / Big 8 / Big 12.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Six_Conference
Also, the Missouri v Nebraska series is the second longest running rivalry in the Big 12. The have met on the football field 102 times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri%E2%80%93N...
Why would they fit better in the Big 10 network? Because the St. Louis market is huge??? Why wouldn't that be just as good for the Big 12 as it is for the Big 10?
Read the links I posted please. You were right about one thing... none of this would ever happen... at least when it comes to Missouri leaving the Big XII anyway.
Not a bad scenario, but Kentucky would never leave(or be allowed to leave) the SEC...
Meet my stick...
Whack, whack, whack...
Sorta...
Conference realignment talk is alot like dragons, elves, and Bobby Bowden's retirement...
Fantasy...
Gators getting arrested is a harsh reality...
any BE school would be stupid to leave the basketball haven of the big east, the tourney alone made far more money than the big 10 tourney did, and had far more exposure
competitively, missourri or notre dame
geographically, iowa st and notre dame make good choices, as 2 do all the mac schools, missourri extends the big10 borders, however, it should be noted, from columbia, its a short 4 hr drive to each big 12 north school, except colorado
size (fan and school), notre dame fits the bill hands down, iowa st and missourri to a lesser extent
tradition, notre dame, except notre dame also has a big east tradition
market, notre dame, missourri maybe
most to gain: iowa st, the competition has sucked recently, since seneca wallace graduated, lack of tv exposure, other sports lacking, could use a change, make the iowa rivalry relevant, mac schools, i shouldn't have to explain this one
most to lose: notre dame, tv contracts and all
my pick: iowa state, mac school (western michigan, has top notch facilities), either choice would work for the incoming school, iowa state also would bring its world renown wrestling program, as well
F*CK NOTRE DAME!!!
[LOL, really sorry, bud...I just had to...] :)
When I saw your comment in the "Recent Comments" section I thought you were responding to Keats' 'Zooker comment...
Not nearly as dramatic as those scenes in the semi-biographical Forrest Gump, though...
Could I interest you in adding an avatar, and perhaps (gasp!) revealing your affiliation? You don't have to, but it certainly makes your posts easier to locate.
I think we can safely say that you are in the same group with everyone else here wishing away the summer. September 3rd can't get here fast enough. Coincidentally I have an obligation and that I don't care for at all that ends on August 31st, so I really can't wait for football season to get here.
I wish someone reputable did offer a Master's degree on college football. That might be the only thing that would truly inspire me to get one.
Anyway, stick out the summer. The regular season is a great time here. We also do a "pick'em" during the season for craps and laughs that is quite entertaining.
Even in thin times, we're still around and ridiculously obnoxious...
"HrrrrRonzook"
"KaaaaGalenhall"
Every school has Bandwagon fans, as well as the "Dirt Road Alumni", those people who have only been on campus during sporting events...
When Brian-Dennehy Staduim expands to 102k, we'll have/need a lot more...
Understandable you wouldn't realize this as 8 & 9 wins at schools of those on the outside looking in are the norm and to be celebrated as moral victories...
There are only a few teams with a winning record against Texas
USC, Vanderbilt 1928------- fill in the blank
Not that it has anything to do with this thread...
But we have so few Purdue posters around (I think you might actually be the only one) that I never get to drop this little G-Hippy biographical tidbit...
I caught passes in NAIA ball from a former Purdue QB who joined our squad for one season...
I've only recently become a Purdue fan. Since I did not attend a football university but grew up in the midwest, I have always been a general fan of the Big T(elev)en. However, I recently adopted a following of Purdue because I now live in northern Indiana, my brother-in-law went to Purdue and has taken me to a few games, and I eternally hate everything Notre Dame.
But I think I heard at one time that the name of the QB might be Hoffman...
At the begining of the season last year I posed the question as to which Texas QB would have the biggest impact on the season. After the season is over its still open for debate.
Harrel @ Texas Tech
Snead @ Ole Miss
Johnson @ Utah
McCoy @ Texas
Reesing @ Kansas
Stafford @ Georgia
Dalton @ Texas Christian
Daniel @ Missouri
Clement @ Rice
All these guys had outstanding winning teams and all won their bowl games the exception being Harrell-who held a lot of Texas H/S records, many of which were broken by Gilbert- fresh QB @ Texas
I was most impressed by Griffin @ Baylor this guy is real exciting to watch and liked to pull upsets over Texas Tech,Nebraska and Missouri-next year I look for him and Mallet @ Arkansas to make some waves in CFB
I'll also be watching McElroy @ Alabama
But you would be correct in that I don't necessarily want to pass his name out on the "open airwaves" here...
Simply because I wouldn't want to drag out why exactly he ended up with us for his senior season of eligibility...
But I will put the name in your e-mail box, WEAtl...
I honestly don't think the Big Ten will expand for any reason, unless ND comes calling; then they will snatch them up in a heartbeat.
The Big Ten doesn't have that interest to do the 12-team superconference thing either. They love having OHST-MICH that last weekend and have no reason to change anything.
HOWEVER, having said that, I'll play:
Big Ten Expansion Candidates (no particular order):
> Notre Dame: The second the Irish offer, it's done, although it's more likely the Big Ten will have to join the Notre Dame Conference.
[ Personally, I like ND just fine as an Independent; I like unique things, and whether you love them or hate them, Notre Dame is truly unique and adds something to CFB. Everyone can hate the Irish for getting special treatment, but let's face it - the Irish bring emotions to a fever pitch - adoring, screaming fans or outraged Fanbloggers screaming for blood. C'mon, yall...would CFB be better off by taking that away? :) ]
> Pittsburgh: My pick for the #2 candidate. Everyone and their cousin wants PSU and PITT in the same conference. Save Joe Pa, if PITT fans are to be believed.
> Rutgers: I don't see this happening; RUTG is geographically isolated from the midwest, and I don't see much in terms of powerhouse-ness to see the Big Ten expand.
> Missouri: Unless the Big 12 collapses, I don't see MIZZ moving. There is no reason to jump ship from a 12-team superconference to form another 12-team superconference, especially if major longtime rivals NEB and KAN are already on your slate.
> Syracuse: I'm thinking TV market and basketball here, the CFB team doesn't bring much to the table, but if we're in the land of fantasy, ya can't discount the 'Cuse.
> West Virginia: If you're looking for a consistent and strong CFB program, it would be tough to find better than WVU; although I doubt the Big Ten would bring in WVU instead of PITT...
> Boise State/Utah: LOL, just sayin'...wow would that settle some issues.... :)
Most figure Missouri(Or Iowa State) would be good so the Big 12 can take TCU and the PAC 10 can take two of Utah/BYU/Boise State. Why not skip the Big 12 and bring Texas into the Big 10 recruiting?
Just sayin'
Mich/OSU
Mich/Mich State
Mich/Minn (curse that damned jug)
Wisc/Minn (we OWN the axe)
Purdue/Iowa
Screw the rest of 'em.
Oh, and NW has to stay. SEC has its Vandy. Pac10 has its Stanford. Big12 has its Baylor. There has to be a place for the brainy athletes to earn the degrees they want, need & seek - while still being able to compete on a top tier.
Also, I'm assuming that each team in each division must play every other team within its division, hence 6 games. + 3 powderpuff, errrr, ahh,...make that non-conference game, + 3 cross-divisional games each year. So a "permanent rivalry" could not consist of teams residing in different divisions b/c they would not be able to or required to play each other every single year. Does that assumption hold water?
In the ACC, we play 5 divisional games (FSU, NC State, Wake, BC, Maryland) every year. Our "permanent rival", who is actually a rival, is Georgia Tech. So, we play the 5 in our division every year, and we play GT every year. Outside of that, we rotate 2 Coastal division opponents each year, and then of course we have our 4 OOC games. This is the same way that the SEC implements it as well.
So, due to my lack of knowledge of existing rivalries, I needed help in assigning the permanent rivalries to my fictitious plan for the Big Televen.
Using the Gators as an example...
Their current permanent interdivisional opponent is LSU...
Then the rest of the division is rotated as such...
2006
Bama (G-Ville)
Auburn (@ Auburn)
2007
Ole Miss (@ Oxford)
Auburn (Hogtown)
2008
Ole Miss (Hogtown)
Arkansas (@ Fayetteville)
2009
Arkansas (Hogtown)
Miss St (@ Starkville)
2010
Miss St (Hogtown)
Bama (@ Tusacaloosa)
So it takes nearly 5 seasons to work through the other 5 teams in the other divisions...
Also the conference moves those games around in the order they are played when conference play begins...
While Tennessee is currently always the SEC opener for the Gators the West opponenets on rotation sometimes are back to back right after the opener...
Some years they are moved more to the middle of conference play sandwiched around the LSU game which is normally in the first two weeks of October...
I believe the league does this in order to keep the schedules "fresh" but also making an attempt at establishing a tradition when the league went to divisional play...
For example the UF/UT game being the traditional SEC opener for both or the time honored 'Third Saturday in October' for Bama and the Vols...
I thought the ACC did the same but guess I was mistaken if you're saying Clemson switches both interdivisional rotaters each year...
If that is how they do it I find it interesting and wonder why they would do it that way...
Do they move those games around in conference play in a similiar fashion as I described above or are the rotation games always in the same slots?
1. Ohio State/Michigan - needless to say
That dirty, lie'n, good-for-nut'n, no-personality, useless, excuse of an S.O.B., Senator Tressell....grrrr!
2. Wisconsin/Minnesota - the battle for "Paul Bunyon's Axe"
The longest standing football rivalry in NCAA, has been played for something like 110 years.
3. Michigan/Minnesota - "The Little Brown Jug"
Like WI/MN, this isn't a game likely to decide a conf. championship or anything, but its old & full of tradition. For those that don't know, the story of the jug is a classic. Some Minnesota coach, way back when (possibly even in the 1800's) either said he didn't like Michigan so much he wouldn't even drink the water there - or - that he thought the student body was so dirty they'd try to poison him (depending on which version you subscribe to), that he told a staffer to go down to the corner store & get him a jug he could carry his own water in. The rest is history.
4. Michigan/Michigan State - "Paul Bunyon Trophy"
Apparently Bunyon was big in these parts back in the day.
5. Indiana/Purdue - "Old Oaken Bucket"
6. Wisconsin/Iowa - "Heartland Trophy"
Rivalry has been made all the more intense in recent years with one-time Hawkeye, Bret Bilema, making the defection to the enemy camp.
7. Michigan/Penn State - "Land Grant Trophy"
I had to throw the State Penn in there, but truth is, with State Penn being a relative new-comer to the conference, they really have no historical arch rival(s)
8. Illinois/Purdue - "Purdue Cannon"
Even when both teams are mediocre, or worse, this game is typically a real smash-mouth affair. When the trophy at stake is not neutral, as in this case, one side darn sure doesn't want to lose it, the other darn sure wants to take it.
9. Ohio State/Penn State
No real history & no trophy on the line. Just a good matchups of traditional national power houses.
10. Minnesota/Iowa - "Floyd of Rosedale trophy"
Don't ask. Just another one of those games that's been played every year since Jefferson was in office.
11. (runner up) Illinois/OSU - "Illinibuck"
So that's what I'd call the top 10, in terms of fierce, mid-western, 'man I hate those guys' kind of games. How you'd like to divy them up and parcel them out as 'permanent rivalries' is up to you. But with the alignment you have it shouldn't be too tough. My guess it that you'd have to have Pitt/PSU in there, and maybe even Pitt/MSU simply by virtue of geographic proximity.
http://www.goducks.com//pdf1/135136.pdf
I just remember hearing it over the years that OU/OSU was one of the oldest rivalries west of the Mississippi....if not the oldest.
Can't wait for the season to start....91 days to go!!!
http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SP...
"At 116 games and counting, the series between Minnesota and Wisconsin ranks as the longest in Division 1-A football"
Assignations can blossom into full blown rivalries in a short time...
For example...
Before the current scheduling format, each SEC team was assigned two permanent interdivisional opponents in order to honor many of the exisiting rivalries...
However, the issue with that is it made the scheduling a bit unbalanced...
For example, Auburn had Florida & Georgia as their permananet IDOs...
Two very important rivalry games for the Plainsmen each year in the "old" SEC with Dawgs & Tigers games being played for a VERY long time (South's longest standing series, I believe) and UF/Auburn being competitive and had a high rate of exchange in the old days between graduate programs fueling an intense rivalry...
However, when the divisional play was revamped UF/AU was dropped in foavor of an annual UA/UGA matchup due to it's history and rightfully so...
This left UF with their assigned annual contest against LSU which before divisional play wasn't an annual contest for either even in the "old" days...
The interesting thing is that in the less than 15 years since the divisional split, this has arguably become one of the hottest rivalries in the conference...
In the end, I wouldn't be so concerned with perserving "traditional" rivalries when looking at interdivisional play...
Putting to new teams togoether annually can be a better move and develop new lore and history in a short time with just about the same level of 'hate"...
Heck, we even have a trophy for our "rivalry" with Boston College now.
I recently mused about what if Auburn had originally been in the East and Tennessee in the West. Auburn would still have annual games with Florida, Georgia and Tennessee, and still have kept Alabama as the lone IDO.
Yea, both Kenny Chesney and I would have done a lot of things different...
gonna get to you girl . . .
Oops. Sorry about that. I don't need it anymore.
As you were.
Okay, so then I'd have it like this:
North
Michigan
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Northwestern
Iowa
South
Ohio State
Illinois
Purdue
Indiana
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Permanent rivalries as follows:
Michigan - Ohio State
Michigan State - Indiana (Old Brass Spittoon)
Northwestern - Illinois (Land of Lincoln Trophy)
Minnesota - Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell)
Iowa - Pittsburgh
Wisconsin - Purdue
SEC/ACC remain the same
Big ten takes on Notre Dame
Pac 10 takes on BYU and Utah
Big East splits from non football schools and takes on ECU, UCF, Memphis, Temple, and Army Navy as football only members. (take on army navy for the television rights to the army navy game, which is worth $$$$$$$$$$$)
Mountain West/Wac form a semi merger to create a 12 team league
Conference USA - Does a merger with the sunbelt to keep a 12 team league, also add South Alabama and Texas State once they become full Division 1-a programs
New Southwest conference - there has been much talk about the western teams in the conference usa splitting to form there own conference, and i believe they do this with some other conference usa members and LT, new mexico and nmsu.
This is alot of change but i feel this would optomize travel cost and enhance region rivalries...Thoughts?
New Conference Alignment
ACC Standings
ATLANTIC
Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Maryland
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
COASTAL
Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami (FL)
North Carolina
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Big 12 Standings
NORTH
Colorado
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska
SOUTH
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Big East Standings
North
Navy
Connecticut
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
West Virginia
Army
South
East Carolina
Louisville
Memphis
South Florida
Cincinnati
UCF
Temple
Big Ten Standings
West
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern
Wisconsin
East
Indiana
Iowa
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Purdue
Penn State
Conference USA Standings
East
Marshall
Middle Tennessee State
Arkansas State
Florida Atlantic
Western Kentucky
Florida International
West
Troy
North Texas
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
South Alabama
Texas State
Mid-American Standings
EAST
Akron
Bowling Green
Buffalo
Kent State
Miami (OH)
Ohio
WEST
Ball State
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Western Michigan
Mountain West Standings
East
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Utah State
Wyoming
Idaho
West
Fresno State
Hawaii
Nevada
San Diego State
UNLV
San Jose State
Pacific-10 Standings
North
Brigham Young
Oregon
Oregon State
Utah
Washington
Washington State
South
Arizona
Arizona State
California
Stanford
UCLA
USC
SEC Standings
EAST
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
WEST
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
New Southwestern Conference/WAC
East
Louisiana Tech
Tulsa
Houston
Southern Miss
Tulane
UAB
West
New Mexico State
TCU
UTEP
SMU
New Mexico
Rice
North
BC
Maryland
UVA
VT
Duke
UNC
South
FSU
Miami
GT
Clemson
NCSU
Wake
I have better one, but can't upload the file.
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr50/AlBoomh...
However, if the idea of expanding were to take on some form of reality, I tend to think that a/the likely candidate might be Iowa State. There's a great natural rivalry. The Big12 is certainly doing ISU no favors. And it makes a lot more sense geographically than, say, a Rutgers. A top or even mid-tier MAC team might make sense for the same reasons. Heck, we already play the hell outta that conference every year anyway - might as well make it offical.
All the major conferences like to keep a private school in their conference because a private school doesn't have to disclose as much info as a public school. To keep things even, the public schools in a conference then agree they aren't required to disclose any more than the private school.
Can anyone confirm that there is any truth to that statement?
No, but really... I'd take just about anybody that's decent. Why does it have to be a school that brings something different?? I say, as long as they are a reputable institution, academically as well as athletically....bring em on... Haven't heard anybody mention them, so I will....
Louisville would suit me just fine... Great basketball. Good football. Pitino within our conference adds another snake oil salesman to the fold...lmao...