Fanblogs.com: Breaking down the schedules - Cupcake City 08 Edition
Jeff
· 1 year ago
I think you need to look at this a different way. I want to see who schedules the most games against other BCS conf teams. So I followed your link & it is already posted so this is how I look at it.
ACC 48% (of non-conf games against other BCS schools) PAC-10 47% BIG EAST 40% BIG 10 39% BIG 12 31% SEC 31%
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
While you make a fair point for the PAC 10, it seems that you were not willing to make the same breakdown for other conferences, i.e. the SEC. What about the non-FCS "cupcakes" that they play, according to the same system of logic you are using towards the PAC 10. It seems there is clearly a bias.
Zac
· 1 year ago
By comparison, it appears on the surface that 2004 was a much tougher year for everyone, as compared with 2008. Still, I must needs ask the question, "What constitutes a *cup-cake*"? What criteria should be used to determine the answer?
On one hand you have Play-Off Subdivision teams, and as WarEagle has reminded us, not all of them can be considered cup-cakes. Then, you have "lower tier" BCS teams such as Baylor, Duke, IA St, KY, NW, Stanford, Syracuse, Vanderbilt to name a few; not to mention some aforementioned teams from the mid-majors.
Rankings may be the only way to work this out, so long as both immediate (within the past 5-10 years) success, and general historical success are considered. This, of course, takes time.
The point is this: Every collegiate football team out there fields 11 guys on offense, 11 more on defense, has a specific mix for special teams, and a group of preferred back-ups. Fundamentally, they all go through the same basic drills. While some schools have better facilities and attract arguably more talented athletes, for the most part every player works basically as hard as any other. The only difference is some are better at what they do than others.
Which brings me to my final point (There's that sigh of relief again!): Who's got the tougher schedule? Teams like Baylor, Duke, IA St, KY, NW, Stanford, Syracuse, or Vanderbilt (Everyone they play is said to be better), OR, teams like GA, OK, OSU, USC (Everyone says they're better than everyone else.)? Maybe there really aren't any cup-cakes. Just ask MI, USC, & WVU, among others.
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
Why not define a cup cake as a team that did not qualify for a Bowl game or tournament slot last year?
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
Update, Shear boredom has generated these results. Some definitions:
Non Cupcake: any team that went to a bowl last year 1/2 Cupcake: Any team with 5 or more wins or participating in FCS playoffs last year Cupcake: anyone else
A teams cupcake scheduling is determined by the average of the cupcake level of their opponents. A conference cupcake scheduling level is then determined to be the average of the non cupcake teams from that conferences cupcake scheduling level.
Results: WAC: 0.231 PAC 10: 0.278 MAC: 0.333 Sun Belt: 0.400 C-USA: 0.438 SEC: 0.472 ACC: 0.484 Big 10: 0.531 Big East: 0.540 Big 12: 0.547 MWC: 0.55 Navy: 0.625
I am disappointed at my MWC teams. The PAC 10 is scheduling less cupcakes than any BCS conference, only passed by the WAC (This is an artifact of the fact that Hawaii's schedule looks nothing like last years and only the top teams are looked at.)
But the next question is, which conference has the tougher scheduling? If the cupcake level of a conference is defined to be the average of hte cupcake levels of its members, the number of cupcakes on the average schedule from the non cupcakes in that conference can be determined.
The non cupcakes from each conference are also listed, followed by the 1/2 cupcakes and cupcakes
Results: SEC 3.22 LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn, Kentucky, Arkansas, Miss St, Alabama South Carolina, Vanderbilt Ole Miss
PAC 10: 3.53 USC, ASU, OSU, Oregon, California, UCLA Arizona, Washington State Stanford,Washington
ACC: 3.94 Boston College, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, FSU, Georgia Tech, Maryland North Carolina State, Miami (Fl) North Carolina, Duke
Sun Belt: 5.94 Troy, Florida Atlantic Louisiana Monroe, Middle Tennessee State, Arkansas State Louisianna Lafayette, North Texas, Florida International
MAC: 5.95 Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Ball State Miami (OH), Ohio, Buffalo, Western Michigan, Toledo Temple, Akron, Eastern Michigan, Kent State, Northern Illinois
Navy: 7.5
Other 1/2 cupcakes: Western Kentucky, Northern Iowa, New Hampshire, Delaware, Delaware State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Massachusetts, Fordham, McNeese St, Eastern Washington, Appalacian State, James Madison, Montana, Wofford, Richmond, Eastern Kentucky
Other FBS cupcakes: Army, Notre Dame (man I love kicking Notre Dame when they are down)
These numbers actually relate quite well with the observed difference in final rankings based on conference membership, if the WAC and MWC are exchanged. This is a real indicator of the change in strength of scheduling from last year between these two conferences.
It is a sad day for a MWC fan :(
That said, I think the MWC has a better chance of performing well in our games, but time will tell.
Individual cupcake scheduling honor list: This is awarded to non cupcakes with a cupcake scheduling less than 0.5
0.00 Oregon State: Penn State, Hawaii, Utah UCLA: Tennessee, BYU, Fresno State
Individual Disconor List This goes to teams with a cupcake scheduling greater than 1.40
1.6 Connecticut: Hofstra, Temple, Virginia, Baylor, North Carolina
1.5 Boston College: Kent State, UCF, Rhode Island, Notre Dame Wisconsin: Akron, Marshall, Fresno State, Cal Poly Penn State: Coastal Carolina, Oregon State, Syracuse, Temple Memphis: Misissippi, Rice, Marshall, Nicholls State TCU: Stephen F Austin, Stanford, SMU, Oklahoma
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
MMMMM, cupcakes...
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
How exactly did the Big XII get a fourth row? Are Iowa St. and Baylor super-cupcakes, or maybe a regular cake?
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
They have a lot of teams with long western names. The first two lines are the non cupcakes, as can be determined by the fact that Colorado went to a bowl game last year.
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
Oh ok. Thanks. I guess the comma after Texas A&M should have been a hint.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Because it's much more fun to be totally ambiguous about it, Ben!
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
I have a strange sense of fun, see below
40AcresOfBurntOrange
· 1 year ago
There are many bad schools from BCS conferences that could be substituted for these "cupcake" teams. Why does this not happen?
Big 10: Purdue, Minnesota, Northwestern, Indiana Big 12: Baylor, Iowa State, Pac 10: Stanford, Washington, Washington St., Arizona ACC: Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, North Carolina State SEC: Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Miss St.
Sure these aren't definate wins, but i would much rather see my team play one of these teams instead of these Division 2 cupcakes. I think one of the Boomers made a comment about schools who are scheduling harder non conference schedules in the future, and that they may become the new trend, and i hope it is. Even though there is a lot of risk involved it usually turns into some pretty good football. I know those two years we played Ohio State were such a cool experience, and i hope that in the future we start to see more and more of these big non conference match ups.
HookEmHorns!
Balldogs1
· 1 year ago
Anybody, Anytime, Anywhere.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Yawn...
...we already have someone scheduled for homecoming.
GO GATORS!!
BallDogs1
· 1 year ago
Who might that be Tampa?
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Kentucky.
GO GATORS!!
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Ya I seen yalls game at College Station last year, purty good game. First half was all Aggies then the Bulldogs came back, went into OT if I recall. Winning at Kyle Feild is not an easy task, OU ,UT and Miami all play A&M at home this year.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
b/t/w: Welcome back PAC 10 Fan; seems y'all have been awful scarce of late.
...always fun to mix it up with the left coasters.
GO GATORS!!
IBleedOrange
· 1 year ago
Does Notre Dame count as a cupcake?
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Excellent case in point. Everyone figured ND would be a little weaker last year than the year before, but how many figured them to be a "cupcake"?
...and yet who could argue that they weren't a cupcake last year--3-9, getting blown out regularly, blown out at home, ranked like #117 in offense, most sacks allowed, on and on...
....there's your definition of "cupcake"--yet it could only be so defined after the season played out.
GO GATORS!!
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
TG ya your right I saw the ND vs G Tech game and thought wow those Yellowjackets are Bad A --this year. My opinion was based upon one game that I,at the time thought was a favorable opponent, boy I was wrong. ND-cupcake ? Stanford?-na any time you beat USC you cant be considered cupcake
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Only if chef Weiss is baking them...
Zac
· 1 year ago
With extra cheese, as I recall.
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
Eww! Cheese on a cupcake!? That's like ketchup in milk. Oh wait, I saw a guy drink that and he said he liked it. Maybe it's better than it sounds.
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
never had it, but cream in tomato soup is good, can't be much different.
What about apple sauce on a hot dog? sounds weird to me, but I know a lot of people who love it.
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
Look, my point was that if you want to analyze conferences in that manner, it's basically extrapolating the same data but on a larger scale. As shown by Lou above, if applying the same criteria to other conferences, the general ratio would still be the same. However, I felt the need to comment simply because you essentially "called out" the PAC 10 while making some ensuing remarks about how their schedules compare to the SEC. It just seemed a little unbalanced.
Zac
· 1 year ago
Ahem, WestCoaster, now you're being reasonable, and I'm sorry; there's no place for that on Fanblogs.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Again, I didn't have time to look at all the conferences, so I started with the one listed as having the least amount of cupcakes. I agreed with Lou's assertion about SEC cupcakes.
Even though the SEC may have more cupcakes than the Pac 10, we do play SEC teams for the rest of our games as opposed to Pac 10 games... :-)
AUtigerman
· 1 year ago
I dont question the point that Pac 10 teams play a tougher out of conference schedule then most conferences.
I guess my point was that a typical SEC schedule will see every team playing at least 4 top twenty teams. For the last few years SEC has had 5 - 6 top 25 every year. Several times 3-4 top ten teams. With that kind of regular conference schedule why load up with tough nonconference competition.
PAC 10 was much tougher this year and i for one am glad to see it. With Neuhaussel now at UCLA it could get very interesting.
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
Alright, point taken, but let me say this.
Using the polls as a reference for strength is flawed because the polls are based on the bias of the voters, and not anything statistically measurable. For example, if you were a voter, your perception (and I'm not arguing the validity of it) is that the SEC is a stronger conference. Therefore, you would be more inclined to rank SEC teams higher.
Additionally, I don't like how playing a tough conference schedule is being used as an excuse for poor OOC scheduling. I don't understand how the SEC can make that argument about themselves and condemn other conferences for being "weaker." The other conferences cannot decide how strong their conference opponents are, but they can control who they play out of conference. Without inter-BCS-conference games, conference strength is purely based upon opinion because we all know that the only results that matter are the ones that happen on the field. Additionally, you said it yourself, since 1990, the SEC vs. PAC 10 is 10-9 in favor of the SEC. How does that make the SEC overwhelmingly stronger?
Again, I respect the SEC, and at this time, I would agree that it is the strongest conference. However, I think the level of arrogance regarding the conference's strength does not match with reality.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
westcoaster enjoyed your posts and understand were your coming from and every year is different. I too respect the SEC and they are a tough conference. Looking at the end of 07 top ten 1. LSU SEC 2. USC P-10 3.UGA SEC 4. OSU B-10/11 5. Missu B-12 6. W V BE 7. KU B-12 8. OU B-12 9. V Tech ACC 10. UT B-12 Teams in top ten SEC - 2 B-10- 1 ACC- 1 BE - 1 P -10 -1 B 12---- 4 I really don't get into much of that our conference is tougher than yalls arguments . Just thought I'd open a can of worms- watch what happens B-12 Rodney Dangerfeild of CFB no respect
Zac
· 1 year ago
That deserves a point, TC!
AUtigerman
· 1 year ago
Well not sure why you think it is arrogance. Yea i suppose maybe there is some but the truth is in the numbers.
Since the BCS has been implmented the SEC has dominated.http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/8302978/Easy-to-see-what-best-BCS-era-conference-is.
I do feel that the gap is getting smaller however there is a definate gap.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
I honestly believe that teams like Vanderbilt and Baylor should never be considered cupcakes, because they play in real tough conferences and teams like Troy,Tulsa,BYU,Utah and TCU should not be considered cupcakes either, they just happen to belong to non-BCS conferences. Teams like Ole Miss, Baylor and IA State would probably do extremely well in C-USA or Sunbelt. Just my .04 cents-----due to inflation Hookem-Horns P.S. Hawaii wouldnt even qualify for a Bowl had they played a B-12 schedule
Zac
· 1 year ago
Nope, not due to inflation, rather due to the higher price of metals, which is due to...oh, yeah, right, inflation...how bout that...
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
I differ with you on Hawaii last year. They could have gotten 3 non conference wins and snuck by with a 3-5 Big 12 conference record last year and gotten to a bowl game at 6-6.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Ben which 3 B-12 teams would they have beaten? I have to admit though that a TTech vs Hawaii or a OK st vs Hawaii probably woulda grossed over 100 points
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
Baylor, Iowa State and one upset of the folloing: Nebraska, Kansas State, Texas A&M, Oklahoma St
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
I don't know Ben could Hawaii stop BU- I dunno IA state has a purty good offense too beat Iowa and Colo last year Maybe, maybe and we will never know
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
True we would never know.
High scores all around.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Come on, Ben, join the discussion above. Who's your favorite cupcake that you root for, you know, besides Utah... :-) No, seriously.
How the hell did you wind up in Panama City from Utah? Make a wrong turn on I-10 in Tuscon?
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
I always cheer for the underdog. I always want the BCS team to lose to a non-BCS team, and the higher ranked BCS team to lose. Rare exceptions exist when strange arrangement of BCS standings are possible.
I liked Louisville, then they left C-USA
I liked Boise State, then they got a name and beat Utah a couple of times.
This year I think Wyoming could be a suprise, watch out for them.
The MAC has been real quite the last few years, its about time someone up there made some waves.
Panama City is a Black Hole, I left here to go to Utah to be near mountains and to see snow again, and got sucked right back. The Rockies are far better than those hills they call mountains in Maryland.
Which brings me to the BCS team I secretly root for. Maryland.
Go TERPS!
Zac
· 1 year ago
My bet there would have been NE.
Football Picks
· 1 year ago
Aren't "cupcakes" subjective? A cupcake for USC may not be a cupcake for many other schools? And before anybody recognizes my not so cryptic avatar - yes I clearly acknowledge that my school is one of the worst offenders this season and last. But as Big Boy Magino pointed out to critics of the schedule last season - we're in the Orange Bowl aren't we. In other words the stunningly broken system of the BCS encourages the cupcakes. Winning the Orange Bowl helped validate the quality of the team despite the early schedule. A big argument against a playoff is that every game in the regular season matters so much....really? USC beating Valdosta State by 64 points with 2nd and 3rd teamers matters? If the fear of one single loss weren't looming so large for teams perhaps they'd schedule less cupcakes to pad the win totals. Cupcakes on the schedule are a reality of college sports in the current system.
I like the idea of measuring the intention at the time of arrangement vs the current status.
Maybe an average of the computer ranking of the non conference opponents the year befor the game was inked would be the best measure of how lame a schedule was desired.
If you scheduled tough opponents, like Notre Dame, and they flopped you would not be hurt, and if you scheduled a cupcake like East Carolina and they went on to strong seasons and a solid bowl win you would not be helped.
BallDogs1
· 1 year ago
Who might that be Tampa Guy?
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Now wait a minute here. We really need to do a better job of defining what a cupcake is. It appears that in the story above, it's a Division 1-AA school, where in my mind, it's also a mid-major team that's not expected to do much.
Looking at the Pac-10 in the article that is linked, I would offer that the following opponents would be considered cupcakes of the Pac-10, instead of the mere two that are assigned to them...
North Arizona UNLV Utah State Portland state San Jose State Idaho Toledo New Mexico state
You know damn well that if any of these teams were playing SEC schools everybody would be calling them cupcakes. Just because they're in the same relative geographic region of the Pacific Ocean doesn't mean squat.
Nice hat tip, Ron. Hopefully you weren't wearing a turtleneck with your hat...
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
WEA:
Agreed, and well stated.
As for your second comment--it sounds like you contradicted the very point you made here. What gives?
GO GATORS!!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
I don't understand, TG. Clarify, please!
BTW: Most every OOC game for a SEC school is a cupcake...
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
WEA:
Seems we're not understanding each other.
From your first comment:
"...It appears that in the story above, it's [cupcake] a Division 1-AA school, where in my mind, it's also a mid-major team that's not expected to do much..."
Your second comment:
"...A cupcake is generally regarded as a 1-AA school..."
Your first comment I inferred to mean that substance rather than classification defines who's a cupcake and who's not.
For e.g, Appy state can be D-II and not cupcake, while San Jose Sate can be DI and a cupcake.
I took your second comment to be a complete recantation of that point--that DII by definition=cupcake.
IMO, I believe substance rules, not classification--which is why I echoed your first comment, then scratched my head over second comment.
GO GATORS!!
fosterkeats
· 1 year ago
I wouldn't say that, UGA goes to Az St, bama opens vs Clemson, Fla plays Miami, Arkansas plays Texas, shall i go on???
Allbarn plays West Va, Miss St plays Ga Tech...
Lou
· 1 year ago
So then let's count the cupcake games in the SEC using your criteria and see what we come up with, instead of the mere 9 that were assigned them...
Citadel Wyoming Northern Illinois Tulane x 2 Georgia Southern Wofford UAB x 2 LA Monroe x 3 TN Martin Samford Arkansas State Louisiana Tech SE Louisiana Middle Tennessee x 2 Rice Duke Troy North Texas Norfolk State
p.s. it's New Mexico, not NM State. Big difference. NM has 36 wins in the past 5 years (including 9-4 last year), while NM State, well, hasn't.
(I need a life.)
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Lou enjoyed reading your posts, but sometimes these teams should not be considered cupcakes. Wyoming ans Troy usually field good teams and teams like UL Monroe,Rice, Tulane & N Texas can and do on occasion pull off big upsets. Never underestimate your opponent. In 2007 Texas played UCF and Ark St these two games were just as close as TTech and Oklahoma.
Zac
· 1 year ago
I have to agree, TC. Like when WY took 9-3 VA to the woodshead 23-3 last year.
NOTaNOLE
· 1 year ago
Don't forget the real cupcakes out west INCLUDE AZ.,ASU,SDSU, Oregon, Oregon St., UCLA, Washington, Washington State and anybody else other than USC in that whole darn Conf.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Can't say that I disagree with your list, Lou, with the exception of Duke, and you can see the answer why below...
FRANK RIZZO
· 1 year ago
UH! when was Toledo added to the Pac-10
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
They are playing a PAC 10 team, not in the PAC 10.
The point is they should be considered a cupcake to a PAC 10 team.
Lou: your teams don't match WEA's criteria. While I agree Duke is a cupcake, they do not meet his criteria of mid-major teams not expected to do much.
Wyoming, Louisiana Tech, Duke and Troy should be removed from your list.
Your point remains valid, just overstated.
As for WEA, New Mexico does not belong on this list, and this is who the PAC 10 plays, not New Mexico State. Familiar with east coast and west coast perspectives, this would be like compairing Southern Miss to UAB
Lennie Collins
· 1 year ago
Mister Ben Prather that is a point I tried to make long ago. But sad to say people are gonna judge teams they like as individuals and teams they don't like as unit. In other words I believe Lousiana State won the National Title for their school but it comes off as they won it for the SEC. People who like those teams in the SEC will say it like that to try to make the WHOLE conference look good. Oklahoma scheduled Tennessee Chatanooga to play them not the whole Big 12. It is NO reflection on any other school in the Big 12 except Oklahoma. When the SEC scheduled/schedules Division 1-AA opponents it's because they need a "BREAK" from their so called tough conference schedules BUT when other conferences do it...they are afraid to play good teams. That is one of the biggest double standards in College Football to date.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Wow Lennie good post I agree, to bad yall couldnt get a game against SHSU with QB Rhett Bomar What do yall think about teams from non-BCs conferences playing Div1-AA teams Like SMU vs Texas St ? The Bobcats almost upset A&M one time and we all thought it was goin to be a slaughter
Lennie Collins
· 1 year ago
1Tomcat...first I would not want to see Oklahoma play against ANY Division 1-AA or whatever they call it now school! Second I think it's a STUPID idea for ANY Division 1-A school to play any Division 1-AA. If Oklahoma beats Tennessee Chattanooga 77-3 then they were SUPPOSED to have won by that many anyways or if they lose or the game is close then they come off as being not that good anyways. After what happen to Michigan you would think Division 1-A schools would avoid them BUT I guess I don't know the logic behind it. The SEC fans are quick to criticize other schools who play and lose to Division 1-AA programs BUT fail to see that it was happening in the SEC before Michigan lost to Appalachian State. The SEC fans brag when a team in that conference wins the National Title BUT if it was not for the SEC fans complaining about Auburn not playing Southern California in 2004 the strength of schedule would still be factored in deciding for the National Title which means Florida would have been left out the 2007 game against Ohio State. So SEC fans in my opinion should not even be commenting on this thread! Again SEC fan I have nothing against you or the SEC at all BUT your conference/schools started this now other conferences are gonna start flocking to it! I don't like it BUT I understand! Remember I was born in Mississippi so you can't get no more SEC than that!
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Lennie SEC aint as bad as ACC or Big10 even Big E when it comes to scheduling Div 1-AA teams, Some of the less interesting matchups by some of the so-called ranked teams WV vs Villanova OSU vs Youngstown st UGA vs Georgia Southeren LSU vs App St AZ st vs Northern AZ USF vs Tenn Martin ILL vs East ILL TTech vs East Wash PSU vs N Colo Cinn vs E Ky UConn vs Hofstra Louisville vs Tenn Tech Duke vs James Madison FSU vs West Carolina G Tech vs Jacksonville St Maryland vs Delaware Miami vs Charlston Southern UNC vs McNeese St UC St vs William & Mary UVA vs Richmond V Tech vs Furman & V Tech vs West Ky Arkansas vs West ILL BYU vs N. Iowa Air F vs S. Utah Nevada vs Grambling N Mex St vs Nicholls St San Jose St vs UC Davis San Diego St vs Cal Poly TCU vs SFA Ind vs West Ky Iowa vs Maine Purdue vs N Colo Does anybody want to bet on the underdog, perhaps on a few The Sunbelt and C-USA actually schedule tougher teams than the so-called big dogs Oh I almost forgot OU vs Tenn Chatt
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Correction to above Penn St vs Coastal Carolina Purdue vs Northern Colorado NC St vs William & Mary---Typo Which one of these matchups above looks like a trap game to yall? Who the Heck is Charleston Southeren? Hurricanes play them Why in the world would the Mighty Hokies play 2 Div ! AA creampuffs?
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
You left off Utah(#14 Phil Steel) vs Weber State
I can't believe that game is on my teams schedule. That pisses me off more than any bias by any BCS selection committee.
In the end these games are largely ignored by the voters and either mathematically eliminated from the computers, or a deterrent to them.
From a BCS standings viewpoint these games are equal to or less than a buy week. Either way, you are losing ground to a team facing a quality opponent. They asked for it themselves.
A school like SMU needs to get some traction going, and a solid win can do that. They don't have a realistic shot at a BCS bowl, so for them its not so bad of a move. When it becomes an issue is when a team is looking at getting those final few spots in the BCS standings, as teams like Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Georgia or Auburn can reasonably expect to be a factor.
As for the Sunbelt and C-USA teams scheduling tougher teams than the big dogs, the big dogs have no teams to schedule significantly over themselves. These teams border on the definition of a cupcake in these games, if they lose it does not really matter much, but if they win they can get a foot in the door the conference alignments don't afford them regularly.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Sorry Ben didn't mean omit the Utes from my list totally uninentional and I know I omitted a few others. I have to agree that for some Div1-A programs a game against a Div1-AA foe can help boost team moral and confidence especially a program that finished 3-9 or worse like Marshall vs ILL st so what its early in the season let the boys let it all hang out if you will, probably a good situation for both programs Their other non-Conf games are solid winning BCS schools Wisconsin West Virginia Cinncinati Kinda reminds me of a couple of Rice a couple years ago had Texas,Florida State and UCLA they somehow finished the season 7-6 which is really remarkable Last year they faced 3 B-12 teams and went 0-3 sure some of these are rivalries and some are about $ and exposer This year the Rice Owls face Vanderbilt,Texas, North Texas & Army 1 SEC,1-B-12, 1 Sunbelt, 1 Ind If a team like Rice, one of the smallest Div1-A school was to schedule some Div1-AA opponents what the heck, why not. It would seem pretty hard to establish a winning season anyway without getting pounded 3 or 4 times early For a team like Rice or SMu ya why not, but the Mighty V-Tech Hokies or Miami Hurricanes, na doesnt help you SOS none.
Teams like Texas take heat for their schedule and its really pretty tough FAU Sun Belt Champs went 8-5 and won their bowl there only loses were against OK St, KY, USF, UF and they lost to UL Monroe in OT-- A pretty respectable opponent Horns then travel to the Sun Bowl Sept 6 UTEP C-USA finished up 4-8 beat New Mexico lost to E Carolina in OT, Their defense was ranked 117 in the nation coach Mike Price hired Osia Lewis from UNW and theyre putting in a 3-3-5 scheme this year, so they ought to be better Coach Price is a great offensive coach and they have a good QB and some good receivers, doesnt look like an automatic W to me. texas secondary is gonna have to stop them. Arkansas 8-5- SEC --- bitter rival --- enough said Texas then host Rice This is an old in state foe thats been playing Texas since way before I ever came to this world Heck Ben i didnt even know that Tenn Chat had a football team till I saw it on OU's schedule Adios Tomcat
Lennie Collins
· 1 year ago
Hey 1Tomcat I am not criticizing JUST the SEC. I will make it CLEAR right here, right now! No team in Division 1-A should not be allowed to play any Division 1-AA school. I don't care what the reasons are. There are now 120 Division 1-A teams...if you don't want to play a competitive opponent then a team can find a Division 1-A opponent of the same statue. If you have time look at Rival.com. There were plenty of teams that were equal to Tennessee Chattanooga strength that Oklahoma could have played that were Division 1-A. It still would have been lame for Oklahoma to play them BUT at least they would have been Division 1-A. If the actual paying fans would stop paying to go see these game or buying them on pay per view...I believe that would seen a strong message to these programs to stop scheduling them. As a paying fan I would not pay to see lame opponents. In other words you are charging me TOP DOLLARS then doggone it bring in some TOP TIER OPPONENTS. Why the boosters, paying alumni, and season ticket holders allow this junk to happen...I don't know! Boy I could only image if Oklahoma had scheduled 4 out of the 5 Conference winners: Southern California, Ohio State, West Virginia, Louisiana State, or Virginia Tech. Man, talk about your television ratings! Maybe one year the teams will let the fans vote for the teams they want their programs to play!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Actually, Kevin, I think you got your nomenclature mixed up above. A cupcake is generally regarded as a 1-AA school, which is now called the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS). 1-A schools are now known as Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) schools.
I teach a class on this down on North avenue at the local technical college in case anyone is interested...
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 1 year ago
Good catch, WEA. I have no idea why we can't just call them DI-AA anymore. ;-)
Ramblin' Gator
· 1 year ago
You stay away from the NATS, you traitor!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Haha! That one was all for you, RG!
AUtigerman
· 1 year ago
Well i think Appalachian State deserves an apology. Say what you will but they could be a top 50 division 1 school.
AUtigerman
· 1 year ago
Obviously this writer has a PAC Ten Bias. But answer me this. Outside of USC who in the PAC 10 is considered a worthy opponent year in and year out. Can you say no one. Washington is the only other team that i can remember that has won a NT in my lifetime and i pride myself in being and old geser. They have enough cupcake batter to feed all the other conferences every year.
Just get over yourselves and start calling the Pac 10 conference the Big 1.
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
You are rude. What happened to southern hospitality? Furthermore, even if you take into account War Eagle's clearly biased criteria, the Pac 10 has only 1 more "cupcake" than the SEC (and that is without applying the same "cupcake" criteria to the SEC). If you want to make a one-dimensional argument about NT's, that's fine--I just don't want anything to do with it. And to say other PAC-10 teams don't qualify as worthy opponents year and year out is just silly. Every team has their ups and downs, even in the Mighty SEC.
Big 1? Ha. Says the SElf-righteous Conference. Thanks for your humble opinion.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
My post was only biased to the effect that I only analyzed one conference, and that was the one for whom only two cupcakes were being claimed.
TheMayor
· 1 year ago
Pac 10 vs SEC...here we go again
AUtigerman
· 1 year ago
West Coast
You think it rude to point out a clear bias. And then try and say the Pac 10 stands up to the SEC in talent or any of a hundred or so criteria?
Your in for a long season my friend
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
Grow up and chill out. That's not what I said.
You're too intense, my friend.
Zac
· 1 year ago
"Grow up and chill out."
Hmmm, well, I guess that's being more cordial. You'll have to forgive my Auburn buddies. They're a little concerned about what'll happen when their boyz visit Morgantown later in the season. So, they're out here stirring the pot to get their mind off of the terrible possibilities which awaits their team. As for me, I don't stir the pot; I just tell it like it is. Of course, I usually take 8 friggen paragraphs to make my point, but I do get there eventually.
Honestly, it's only been in recent years that the PAC-10 has been a 1-Man Show. While it's true; there do seem to be more consistent winners than others, it seems many of the teams win big ones, then lose little ones. Right now, AZ, Stanford, and WA are spending the most time in the cellar, with the rest holding up the middle or upper middle, save for USC which can't seem to keep from losing 2 conference games a season. I don't see this as being remarkable, nor do I see a gross number of "cup-cakes". If anything, the PAC-10 kind of looks like a cross between the ACC & Big East - a lot of teams very close in capability & potential, with one standing a little higher above the rest, and a few just below. Sound reasonable?
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
At least they are all still friends. And this pot, what are the contents? I'm hopin' for chili.
AUtigerman
· 1 year ago
Well most of that sounds reseaonable except the first paragraph.
Zac
· 1 year ago
That's because I wuz stirr'n the pot. In udder woids, I wuz only jok'n. (Yeesh, wat a grouch.)
AUtigerman
· 1 year ago
The SEC leads the Pac-10 59-36-5 (.615) head to head. Much closer since 1990 with the SEC leading 10-9.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Okay, here's my attempt at clarifying the definition of a cupcake.
If you are a BCS school, any 1-AA team or any team from a non-BCS conference is a cupcake to you, no matter how good said cupcake may be... Yes, App state was and still is a cupcake to Michigan, and yes, Boise state was a cupcake who got their icing licked off by Georgia three years ago...
If you belong to a BCS conference, you are NO ONE'S cupcake, no matter how bad you are (see Duke) with the possibility of being a sub-set known as an Inner-Conference Cupcake (ICC) (copyright pending on that acronym, WEA 2008)
There are typically only one or two ICCs per conference. For example, Auburn's SEC cupcake this year is Vanderbilt, in Nashville, and if you are remotely superstitious, you will realize that I just hexed us big time... (double fingers crossed, knocking on my press-board computer desk...)
Instead of focusing on the negative, perhaps we should devote more attention to the positive. What about all these cupcakes who constantly roll into hostile venues in order to take a beating for a paycheck, with the tiny tinge of hope that it might also bring them a little respect, too? Look at what APP State did last year, or what Troy has done the last few years, giving some pretty big teams a few scares.
Maybe we need a term to describe the big boys when they are challenged by the cupcakes. Maybe we'll call them Dog Biscuits, or something like that...(no patent pending on that lousy term...)
BTW: We should never totally eliminate cupcake games. It gives the David's an occasional shot at the Goliaths, and after all, we Americans need to always be rooting for that underdog. But not for Tennessee-Martin in Jordan-Hare in October...
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
WEA:
Frankly, I think "cupcake" simply defies definition. There are some obvious ones (e.g.--UF to Citadel--no argument there); but mostly it is a subjective analysis, TBD on an idividual basis.
...especially in this age of parity. I'd propose one exclusion to the "cupcake" analysis: a conference member. You mentioned Vandy; Vandy usually plays SEC teams fairly tough; ditto Kentucky, and Mississippi, and even MSU. Most conference members play each other tough, and any member can take down another--e.g.--Stanford last year, over USC...but I think defining it is almost futile, until the games have been played.
GO GATORS!!
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
How bout we just leave cupcake in its best definition: a small piece of cake roughly in the form of a cup. Does that help?
Zac
· 1 year ago
Hmmm, definitive, simple, logical, has flavor...I like it.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
WEA while I respect your opinion and understand where your coming from, I tend to disagree somewhat with your definition of what constatues a team or school as a cupcake if you will. Since the formation of the BCS ,schools from non-BCS conferences are at a disadvantage in every aspect including recruiting and revenue. If the format was somehow magically transformed it would still take these institutions years to catch up with their BCS foes. We could take the criteria that I believe that Ben mentioned earlier about teams that finish at lower than .500 as cupcakes, which would not really be fair to the Vandy's and Baylor's. I really don't think that teams from non-BCS conferences should be considered cupcakes, for example you could match up the top MWC teams against say the bottom of the BE and what would be the results? shoot I don't know, but looks like some competitive games to me. I guess we all have different ideas about what a cupcake is and last year for example UT got alot of slack about Ark St,TCU and UCF. UCF and TCU both had winning seasons and played great games and I would not consider these teams as cupcakes. OU played N Tex, Tulsa and Miami which would be considered as a cupcake? N Tex because not only are they Sun Belt, but they also had a losing season, but early in the year nobody really knows, we all just have preconceived notions about what a cupcake is. Hookem-Horns
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
TC: Maybe you're right, maybe only 1-AA schools should be considered cupcakes, it really depends on each person's perspective. But don't go thinking that I'm putting a team down for being a cupcake. There's nothing really wrong with the term--it's basically like calling a newbie a greenhorn or a fish or some other term reminiscent of a pastry or pansy...
Most of us are fortunate that the teams we love have been playing for over a hundred years and are basically grandfathered into the club. And most of our teams have had the good fortune to affiliate with the right conferences, further cementing their stature. Granted, a lot of so-called cupcakes have been playing for a long time, too, but just haven't acheived the same level of success or importance.
There's only one way the cupcakes can become anything better--by playing and eventually beating the big boys. Sure, we knock them a bit and throw sand in their faces, but we respect them for at least trying.
Look at Florida State. Used to be a women's school--didn't even field a team until after the war. Over time, got the reputation of playing anyone, anytime. Used to be known as a cupcake, back when your parents were parking in cars, but not any more. They worked their way up the old-fashioned way.
Look at little Troy, from Alabama. Made the jump to 1-A a few years ago after kicking ass for a long time in 1-AA. They're currently in the process of playing anyone, any time. This process can take decades, and the outcome isn't guaranteed.
A few teams in the state of Louisiana are trying to work their way up, perhaps give the big dog LSU a run at bayou supremacy one day. UL-Monroe gave Alabama quite the shock last year, and they have a shot at Auburn this year. Give them their props--they're down there in the trenches.
We all like to root for the underdog, and perhaps most of us have a cupcake that we sort of pull for, kinda like being a minor-league baseball fan. Maybe we ought to list it here on this thread. I'll start it: My cupcake team is Troy, which has forever been a junior varsity Auburn, being literally an hour down the road.
Who's your cupcake team? Anyone?
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Thanks WEA I too like Troy I agree that we all like to root for underdogs I'll pull for N Tex,TCU,Tulsa if they are playing OU I really like to pull for old SWC teams with the exception of Arkansas who were bitter rivals with UT Aug 29 ESPN SMU vs Rice I'll pull for David Balliff and the Owls these kinda games may not have any national significance, but it ought to be a heck of a game. BTW Rice is selling tickets for 10 bucks a piece trying to draw a crowd in operation sellout. Rice used to sell out games years ago and beat teams like Bama, Texas and A&M. I would really like to see these small insitutions whup up on a big boy every once in a while. Hookem-Horns
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
How about a new thread Kevin? Everyone list who their favorite cupcake team is, their favorite minor-league school. We've had slam-book-esque threads like that on here before...
And while we're at it, list your top-3 celebrity list of women you'd like to bonk and which fanblogger you'd most love to vote off the island...
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Okay, using my definitions of cupcakes found above, which includes independents Army and Navy but not ND, I averaged out the number of cupcakes played by each team in the six BCS conferences:
1) PAC 10 1.4 cupcakes per conference member
2) ACC 2.17 per team
3) SEC 2.83 per team
4) Big 10(11) 2.91 per team
T5) Big East 3.00 per team
T5) Big 12 3.00 per team
Now, if someone wants to get extra credit for statistics class, complete one of the two following exercises:
A) For each BCS conference, calculate the average number of games on the schedule this year played against teams that were ranked in the top 25 last year or that were bowl teams last year...
B) If you're really feeling adventurous, weight each of those games according to the team's final ranking, i.e. playing the number one team results in 25 points, the number five team, 20 points, etc.
If no one volunteers to complete these tasks, they will be assigned according to the lowest CLOUT numbers from Disqus from people posting in this column...
Get to work, people!
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
First of all, I'm on summer vacation. The only homework that I'll do anytime soon is for AP English. Second, what is the non-extra credit? You gave us the answer. Man, you would be a really popular teacher.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
I'm just too lazy to do the work myself, Bevo. The point I'd like to prove is that playing a SEC schedule more than offsets all the cupcakes that are being played, you know, when you play the defending national champion, the defending #2 team, and a few others ranked in the top 25, like Auburn does this year.
Are they making you read Strunk and White's Elements of Style for AP English? Good book, not too long--will teach you how to write...
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
No, I don't have to read that, but I do have to read To Kill a Mockingbird and The Curcible. I've heard that The Crucible is a terrible book from at least ten people, so my hopes aren't too high there. I also have to buy a book that might be somewhat similar too Elements of Style: How to Read Literature Like a Professor.
OU_Ron
· 1 year ago
Bevo, my grandson is 16 years old, he's here visiting while on summer break, he has read the Crucible and How to Read Literature Like a Professor, he will be gald to talk to you about both books, he said he actually enjoyed the Crucible.......
Zac
· 1 year ago
You have a 16 year old grandson? I have two sons in their late twenties. One can attract them but can't keep em. The other can't even attract them. I'll never be a grandfather.
By the way, I played Reverend Hale when my HS did a production of the Crucible. Critics in Albany raved our performance as being near professional, even beating out two college performances. "I denounce these proceedings. I denounce these proceedings and quit this court."
OU_Ron
· 1 year ago
Zac, my grandson played the same part " Reverend Hale " in his HS play, he said to reply to you with this---"Why are you concealing ? Have you sold yourself to Lucifer ".
I guess great minds think alike LOL
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the offer Ron, but I'll be ok. I understand everything that I read for these classes, I just don't like the reading. I'm only in the advanced english class because I've heard how boring the regular english class is
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
He enjoyed the Crucible, Ron, because as a Sooners fan, he realizes that's what Stoops puts the fans through every bowl season...
:-)
OU_Ron
· 1 year ago
No man, he's from Texas Uggggggggggggggggggggg just here for summer break
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Ron I dont know about the Crucible, but I'm going to wiki and find out We had to read Hamlet,MacBeth & David Copperfeild when I was in H/S. Reading Dickens & Shakespear only helps if you get on Jeopardy, can't say much else, except somethings are required. Good luck Bevo-Boy It could be worse!
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
Thanks Tomcat. I hope you don't consider the books that you had worse, I had to read Hamlet and MacBeth freshman year. I don't see why people consider Shakespare hard to understand, though. It's pretty easy for me.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Hey Bevo-Boy We read Shakespear our senior year, not freshman. I guess things have changed in over thirty years. Heck I thought you read Ivanhoe & Ole Yeller freshmab year. I just had trouble with certain things because I didnt understand how these things could help me in my career pursuits I guess I had the wrong attitude about it, because at the time it seemed like alot of meaningless trivia, that really didnt pertain to anything I was doing here. I realize now in retrospect that I tended to excell in the classes that I enjoyed and barely skated by in the ones that I at the time considered boring or a bummer. If I ever get on Jeopardy the topics that will give me trouble are Literature,Poetry,Opera and Classical Music. I guess I shoulda paid more attention in class. Keep up the good work The answer is The winningest program in the NCAA the last ten years Who are The Texas Longhorns
Lennie Collins
· 1 year ago
The Texas Longhorns might be the so called winningest BUT they are still second the to Oklahoma Sooners in Conference Championships and tied with them for National titles! Oklahoma won their fif...Texas stll waiting for their third!
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Main topic of thread? Cupcake Edition 08 Tenn Chatt vs OU Does anybody know the odd's ? Wonder if OU will beat the spread What kind of refs are going to officiate the game? Hope its not Pac-10 refs they don't like the sooners
Lennie Collins
· 1 year ago
1Tomcat to be honest...there should not be a (point)spread.
Bevo_Boy
· 1 year ago
So is he a Texas fan? I might be able to get along with this kid. He's the same age as me. He might be kinda weird, though; I mean, he actually likes to read ;-)
Clemson_Joe
· 1 year ago
Personally, I dropped down from AP English my senior year to take more AP and college level. Math/Science classes. You know, the stuff that actually gets you into college. Of course, I went for engineering and history, so depending on what you're going for, maybe that tactic won't work so well for you. One thing I'm curious about though, earlier you mentioned that the regular English class is boring and that's why you're in the advanced one. Does that mean that you've actually been in an English class that wasn't boring?
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
WEA While I like your formula, sorry man it doesn't fly.You of all folks being an AU fan ought to know that the 2004 debacle was do to the weak non conf schedule. Sure we all know how great the SEC is and everything,but in reality it helps if the big dogs schedule at least one real tough non conf game. Read footballpicks post at the bottom it makes alot of sense. Teams like USC gain alot of creditbility by scheduling Arkansas,Nebraska, and Ohio State,even though their conference competition may not be as tough, still got to give credit.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Tomcat, Tomcat, Tomcat. You only think the 2004 season was about cupcakes. What do cupcakes matter? It's really about strength of schedule, right? Auburn beat four teams ranked in the top 15 before the bowls. USC only beat two teams ranked similarly, and Oklahoma only beat one. USC and OU were ranked #1 and #2 to start the season, while Auburn was ranked #17. Are you still trying to tell me that they played harder schedules than Auburn?
Read this and tell me if you still believe it. This article is similar to one written by a Gator blog some time ago, but I can't find it...
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
WEA Hey man I'm on your side, and I read that article once before and I am in 100% total agreement. This disscussion about cupcakes, just tends to bring up the same ole stuff. Texas A&M played the Citedal and Montana St But they also played Clemson,V Tech & Miami, scheduling div-1AA opponents sometimes cant really be avoided like UT vs SHTU, nobody really wants to see these knid of matchups and sometimes its a disaster in the making like N Dakota vs Minn or App St vs Mich If the preceived better team wins it doesnt help them at all. I agree with you about preseason polls and like it or not certain teams IE USC, OU, OSU are ranked real high every year Adios Tomcat
Zac
· 1 year ago
Just don't let Lou Holtz give the pep-talk. I think the teams he gave his ESPN Pre-Game Pep-Talk to went 1-5 last season. Not what I would consider to be good results.
Clemson_Joe
· 1 year ago
I guess Daffy Duck just doesn't fire up the troops like he used to.
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
i'm worn out from my post above.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
It wore me out just plodding through it!
I think your criteria are fair, though they fail to factor in for lost talent and other such variables, since they're based on prior year's results--which are of course, a function of prior year's roster, coaching staff and schedule--all of which change from year to year.
So I maintian that "cupcake" can only really be defined ex post facto. Any such characterization before is mere speculation.
GO GATORS!!
Ben Prather
· 1 year ago
College football usually has a tremendous amount of stability from the standings from one year to the next, with a few exceptions here and their to prove the rule.
Non conference scheduling is a horrible indicator of the strengthh of a conferences scchedule because it only represents 1/3 of the schedule. 2/3 of the games are in conference so 2/3 of a teams SOS comes from their conference. Maybe I had fun with including Notre Dame as a cupcake, but Navy is not a cupcake.
Looking at the difficulty of the non cupcakes for each schedule gives a result consistent with the number of wins a given coference has over another when they are ranked at adjacent levels in the polls. Here is that advantage:
SEC 3.22 PAC 10: 3.53 ACC: 3.94 Big 12: 4.19 WAC: 4.45 Big 10: 4.98 Big East: 5.03 MWC: 5.31 C-USA: 5.75 Sun Belt: 5.94 MAC: 5.95 Navy: 7.5
The PAC 10 plays the toughest out of conference games, but the SOS is still about a third of a game less than the SEC, once conference games are included.
This is the best we can do before the season, by BCS selection sunday the schedules will be reappraised by this years results, which I do not have yet.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
DELETED.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Not following.
How'd you treat the ICC's? ...and how can you even have ICC's, when you excluded BCS teams from cupcake status?
Maybe it's just me, but I having a heck of a time with your posts in this thread.
GO GATORS!!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
Yes, it's lacking, but last year's schedules/rankings/statistics is all we have right now until this season gets cranked up.
Poor Florida. If they go down to the wire tied with another team for a BCS slot this year, the curse of the Citadel may come back to haunt them. Remember in 2004 when it's all anybody could talk about with Auburn having played them, leaving out the fact that we played four top 15 teams on the schedule before the bowls...
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
We got plenty of that in 2006 for playing the Western Kentucky Catamounts. Michigan Fan hammered away at that mercilessly...convenintly neglecting our SEC schedule, and even more conveniently neglecting their little randevous with some putz school who's name elludes me now, that took them deep into the 4th quarter (we annihalated WKU 62-0).
Never underestimate the Citadel! They get a bad rap! They're a really solid football team, and they're much better than...
....alright...I can't even type it with a straight face...
GO GATORS!!
Clemson_Joe
· 1 year ago
Yeah, the Citadel is terrible. Even when they got a former almost starting QB from us (Willie Simmons) in 2003, they still couldn't churn out anything worth mention. I have really never understood why those military colleges aren't better at football.
All Comments
ACC 48% (of non-conf games against other BCS schools)
PAC-10 47%
BIG EAST 40%
BIG 10 39%
BIG 12 31%
SEC 31%
On one hand you have Play-Off Subdivision teams, and as WarEagle has reminded us, not all of them can be considered cup-cakes. Then, you have "lower tier" BCS teams such as Baylor, Duke, IA St, KY, NW, Stanford, Syracuse, Vanderbilt to name a few; not to mention some aforementioned teams from the mid-majors.
Rankings may be the only way to work this out, so long as both immediate (within the past 5-10 years) success, and general historical success are considered. This, of course, takes time.
The point is this: Every collegiate football team out there fields 11 guys on offense, 11 more on defense, has a specific mix for special teams, and a group of preferred back-ups. Fundamentally, they all go through the same basic drills. While some schools have better facilities and attract arguably more talented athletes, for the most part every player works basically as hard as any other. The only difference is some are better at what they do than others.
Which brings me to my final point (There's that sigh of relief again!): Who's got the tougher schedule? Teams like Baylor, Duke, IA St, KY, NW, Stanford, Syracuse, or Vanderbilt (Everyone they play is said to be better), OR, teams like GA, OK, OSU, USC (Everyone says they're better than everyone else.)? Maybe there really aren't any cup-cakes. Just ask MI, USC, & WVU, among others.
Non Cupcake: any team that went to a bowl last year
1/2 Cupcake: Any team with 5 or more wins or participating in FCS playoffs last year
Cupcake: anyone else
A teams cupcake scheduling is determined by the average of the cupcake level of their opponents. A conference cupcake scheduling level is then determined to be the average of the non cupcake teams from that conferences cupcake scheduling level.
Results:
WAC: 0.231
PAC 10: 0.278
MAC: 0.333
Sun Belt: 0.400
C-USA: 0.438
SEC: 0.472
ACC: 0.484
Big 10: 0.531
Big East: 0.540
Big 12: 0.547
MWC: 0.55
Navy: 0.625
I am disappointed at my MWC teams. The PAC 10 is scheduling less cupcakes than any BCS conference, only passed by the WAC (This is an artifact of the fact that Hawaii's schedule looks nothing like last years and only the top teams are looked at.)
But the next question is, which conference has the tougher scheduling? If the cupcake level of a conference is defined to be the average of hte cupcake levels of its members, the number of cupcakes on the average schedule from the non cupcakes in that conference can be determined.
The non cupcakes from each conference are also listed, followed by the 1/2 cupcakes and cupcakes
Results:
SEC 3.22
LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn, Kentucky, Arkansas, Miss St, Alabama
South Carolina, Vanderbilt
Ole Miss
PAC 10: 3.53
USC, ASU, OSU, Oregon, California, UCLA
Arizona, Washington State
Stanford,Washington
ACC: 3.94
Boston College, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, FSU, Georgia Tech, Maryland
North Carolina State, Miami (Fl)
North Carolina, Duke
Big 12: 4.19
Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Colorado
Kansas State, Nebraska
Iowa St, Baylor
WAC: 4.45
Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State, Nevada
Louisiana Tech, San Jose State
Utah State, New Mexico State, Idaho
Big 10: 4.98
Ohio State, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State
Iowa, Northwestern
Minnesota
Big East: 5.03
West Virginia, Cincinnati, Connecticut, South Florida, Rutgers
Louisville, Pittsburgh
Syracuse
MWC: 5.31
BYU, Air force, Utah, New Mexico, TCU
Wyoming
SDSU, Colorado State, UNLV
C-USA: 5.75
UCF, Tulsa, East Carolina, Houston, Memphis, Southern Mississippi
None
Tulane, UTEP, Marshall, Rice, Alabama-Birmingham, Southern Methodist
Sun Belt: 5.94
Troy, Florida Atlantic
Louisiana Monroe, Middle Tennessee State, Arkansas State
Louisianna Lafayette, North Texas, Florida International
MAC: 5.95
Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Ball State
Miami (OH), Ohio, Buffalo, Western Michigan, Toledo
Temple, Akron, Eastern Michigan, Kent State, Northern Illinois
Navy: 7.5
Other 1/2 cupcakes:
Western Kentucky, Northern Iowa, New Hampshire, Delaware, Delaware State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Massachusetts, Fordham, McNeese St, Eastern Washington, Appalacian State, James Madison, Montana, Wofford, Richmond, Eastern Kentucky
Other FBS cupcakes:
Army, Notre Dame (man I love kicking Notre Dame when they are down)
These numbers actually relate quite well with the observed difference in final rankings based on conference membership, if the WAC and MWC are exchanged. This is a real indicator of the change in strength of scheduling from last year between these two conferences.
It is a sad day for a MWC fan :(
That said, I think the MWC has a better chance of performing well in our games, but time will tell.
Individual cupcake scheduling honor list:
This is awarded to non cupcakes with a cupcake scheduling less than 0.5
0.00
Oregon State: Penn State, Hawaii, Utah
UCLA: Tennessee, BYU, Fresno State
0.25
Virginia: USC, Richmond(1/2 cupcake), connecticut, East Carolina
Central Michigan: Eastern Illinois(1/2 cupcake), Georgia, Purdue, Indiana
Fresno State: Rutgers, Wisconsin, Toledo(1/2 cupcake), UCLA
Individual Disconor List
This goes to teams with a cupcake scheduling greater than 1.40
1.6
Connecticut: Hofstra, Temple, Virginia, Baylor, North Carolina
1.5
Boston College: Kent State, UCF, Rhode Island, Notre Dame
Wisconsin: Akron, Marshall, Fresno State, Cal Poly
Penn State: Coastal Carolina, Oregon State, Syracuse, Temple
Memphis: Misissippi, Rice, Marshall, Nicholls State
TCU: Stephen F Austin, Stanford, SMU, Oklahoma
Big 10: Purdue, Minnesota, Northwestern, Indiana
Big 12: Baylor, Iowa State,
Pac 10: Stanford, Washington, Washington St., Arizona
ACC: Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, North Carolina State
SEC: Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Miss St.
Sure these aren't definate wins, but i would much rather see my team play one of these teams instead of these Division 2 cupcakes. I think one of the Boomers made a comment about schools who are scheduling harder non conference schedules in the future, and that they may become the new trend, and i hope it is. Even though there is a lot of risk involved it usually turns into some pretty good football. I know those two years we played Ohio State were such a cool experience, and i hope that in the future we start to see more and more of these big non conference match ups.
HookEmHorns!
...we already have someone scheduled for homecoming.
GO GATORS!!
GO GATORS!!
First half was all Aggies then the Bulldogs came back, went into OT if I recall.
Winning at Kyle Feild is not an easy task, OU ,UT and Miami all play A&M at home this year.
...always fun to mix it up with the left coasters.
GO GATORS!!
...and yet who could argue that they weren't a cupcake last year--3-9, getting blown out regularly, blown out at home, ranked like #117 in offense, most sacks allowed, on and on...
....there's your definition of "cupcake"--yet it could only be so defined after the season played out.
GO GATORS!!
ND-cupcake ?
Stanford?-na any time you beat USC you cant be considered cupcake
What about apple sauce on a hot dog? sounds weird to me, but I know a lot of people who love it.
Even though the SEC may have more cupcakes than the Pac 10, we do play SEC teams for the rest of our games as opposed to Pac 10 games... :-)
I guess my point was that a typical SEC schedule will see every team playing at least 4 top twenty teams.
For the last few years SEC has had 5 - 6 top 25 every year.
Several times 3-4 top ten teams.
With that kind of regular conference schedule why load up with tough nonconference competition.
PAC 10 was much tougher this year and i for one am glad to see it. With Neuhaussel now at UCLA it could get very interesting.
Using the polls as a reference for strength is flawed because the polls are based on the bias of the voters, and not anything statistically measurable. For example, if you were a voter, your perception (and I'm not arguing the validity of it) is that the SEC is a stronger conference. Therefore, you would be more inclined to rank SEC teams higher.
Additionally, I don't like how playing a tough conference schedule is being used as an excuse for poor OOC scheduling. I don't understand how the SEC can make that argument about themselves and condemn other conferences for being "weaker." The other conferences cannot decide how strong their conference opponents are, but they can control who they play out of conference. Without inter-BCS-conference games, conference strength is purely based upon opinion because we all know that the only results that matter are the ones that happen on the field. Additionally, you said it yourself, since 1990, the SEC vs. PAC 10 is 10-9 in favor of the SEC. How does that make the SEC overwhelmingly stronger?
Again, I respect the SEC, and at this time, I would agree that it is the strongest conference. However, I think the level of arrogance regarding the conference's strength does not match with reality.
Looking at the end of 07 top ten
1. LSU SEC
2. USC P-10
3.UGA SEC
4. OSU B-10/11
5. Missu B-12
6. W V BE
7. KU B-12
8. OU B-12
9. V Tech ACC
10. UT B-12
Teams in top ten
SEC - 2
B-10- 1
ACC- 1
BE - 1
P -10 -1
B 12---- 4
I really don't get into much of that our conference is tougher than yalls arguments . Just thought I'd open a can of worms- watch what happens
B-12 Rodney Dangerfeild of CFB no respect
Since the BCS has been implmented the SEC has dominated.http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/8302978/Easy-to-see-what-best-BCS-era-conference-is.
I do feel that the gap is getting smaller however there is a definate gap.
Teams like Ole Miss, Baylor and IA State would probably do extremely well in C-USA or Sunbelt.
Just my .04 cents-----due to inflation
Hookem-Horns
P.S. Hawaii wouldnt even qualify for a Bowl had they played a B-12 schedule
Nebraska, Kansas State, Texas A&M, Oklahoma St
IA state has a purty good offense too beat Iowa and Colo last year
Maybe, maybe and we will never know
High scores all around.
How the hell did you wind up in Panama City from Utah? Make a wrong turn on I-10 in Tuscon?
I liked Louisville, then they left C-USA
I liked Boise State, then they got a name and beat Utah a couple of times.
This year I think Wyoming could be a suprise, watch out for them.
The MAC has been real quite the last few years, its about time someone up there made some waves.
Panama City is a Black Hole, I left here to go to Utah to be near mountains and to see snow again, and got sucked right back. The Rockies are far better than those hills they call mountains in Maryland.
Which brings me to the BCS team I secretly root for. Maryland.
Go TERPS!
Enjoy!
HookEmHorns!
Maybe an average of the computer ranking of the non conference opponents the year befor the game was inked would be the best measure of how lame a schedule was desired.
If you scheduled tough opponents, like Notre Dame, and they flopped you would not be hurt, and if you scheduled a cupcake like East Carolina and they went on to strong seasons and a solid bowl win you would not be helped.
Looking at the Pac-10 in the article that is linked, I would offer that the following opponents would be considered cupcakes of the Pac-10, instead of the mere two that are assigned to them...
North Arizona
UNLV
Utah State
Portland state
San Jose State
Idaho
Toledo
New Mexico state
You know damn well that if any of these teams were playing SEC schools everybody would be calling them cupcakes. Just because they're in the same relative geographic region of the Pacific Ocean doesn't mean squat.
Nice hat tip, Ron. Hopefully you weren't wearing a turtleneck with your hat...
Agreed, and well stated.
As for your second comment--it sounds like you contradicted the very point you made here. What gives?
GO GATORS!!
BTW: Most every OOC game for a SEC school is a cupcake...
Seems we're not understanding each other.
From your first comment:
"...It appears that in the story above, it's [cupcake] a Division 1-AA school, where in my
mind, it's also a mid-major team that's not expected to do much..."
Your second comment:
"...A cupcake is generally regarded as a 1-AA school..."
Your first comment I inferred to mean that substance rather than classification
defines who's a cupcake and who's not.
For e.g, Appy state can be D-II and not cupcake, while San Jose Sate can be
DI and a cupcake.
I took your second comment to be a complete recantation of that point--that DII by
definition=cupcake.
IMO, I believe substance rules, not classification--which is why I echoed your first
comment, then scratched my head over second comment.
GO GATORS!!
Allbarn plays West Va, Miss St plays Ga Tech...
Citadel
Wyoming
Northern Illinois
Tulane x 2
Georgia Southern
Wofford
UAB x 2
LA Monroe x 3
TN Martin
Samford
Arkansas State
Louisiana Tech
SE Louisiana
Middle Tennessee x 2
Rice
Duke
Troy
North Texas
Norfolk State
p.s. it's New Mexico, not NM State. Big difference. NM has 36 wins in the past 5 years (including 9-4 last year), while NM State, well, hasn't.
(I need a life.)
Never underestimate your opponent.
In 2007 Texas played UCF and Ark St these two games were just as close as TTech and Oklahoma.
The point is they should be considered a cupcake to a PAC 10 team.
Lou: your teams don't match WEA's criteria. While I agree Duke is a cupcake, they do not meet his criteria of mid-major teams not expected to do much.
Wyoming, Louisiana Tech, Duke and Troy should be removed from your list.
Your point remains valid, just overstated.
As for WEA, New Mexico does not belong on this list, and this is who the PAC 10 plays, not New Mexico State. Familiar with east coast and west coast perspectives, this would be like compairing Southern Miss to UAB
What do yall think about teams from non-BCs conferences playing Div1-AA teams
Like SMU vs Texas St ?
The Bobcats almost upset A&M one time and we all thought it was goin to be a slaughter
would have been left out the 2007 game against Ohio State. So SEC fans in my opinion should not even be commenting on this thread! Again SEC fan I have nothing against you or the SEC at all BUT your conference/schools started this now other conferences are gonna start flocking to it! I don't like it BUT I understand! Remember I was born in Mississippi so you can't get no more SEC than that!
scheduling Div 1-AA teams, Some of the less interesting matchups by some
of the so-called ranked teams
WV vs Villanova
OSU vs Youngstown st
UGA vs Georgia Southeren
LSU vs App St
AZ st vs Northern AZ
USF vs Tenn Martin
ILL vs East ILL
TTech vs East Wash
PSU vs N Colo
Cinn vs E Ky
UConn vs Hofstra
Louisville vs Tenn Tech
Duke vs James Madison
FSU vs West Carolina
G Tech vs Jacksonville St
Maryland vs Delaware
Miami vs Charlston Southern
UNC vs McNeese St
UC St vs William & Mary
UVA vs Richmond
V Tech vs Furman & V Tech vs West Ky
Arkansas vs West ILL
BYU vs N. Iowa
Air F vs S. Utah
Nevada vs Grambling
N Mex St vs Nicholls St
San Jose St vs UC Davis
San Diego St vs Cal Poly
TCU vs SFA
Ind vs West Ky
Iowa vs Maine
Purdue vs N Colo
Does anybody want to bet on the underdog, perhaps on a few
The Sunbelt and C-USA actually schedule tougher teams than the so-called big dogs
Oh I almost forgot
OU vs Tenn Chatt
Penn St vs Coastal Carolina
Purdue vs Northern Colorado
NC St vs William & Mary---Typo
Which one of these matchups above looks like a trap game to yall?
Who the Heck is Charleston Southeren? Hurricanes play them
Why in the world would the Mighty Hokies play 2 Div ! AA creampuffs?
I can't believe that game is on my teams schedule. That pisses me off more than any bias by any BCS selection committee.
In the end these games are largely ignored by the voters and either mathematically eliminated from the computers, or a deterrent to them.
From a BCS standings viewpoint these games are equal to or less than a buy week. Either way, you are losing ground to a team facing a quality opponent. They asked for it themselves.
A school like SMU needs to get some traction going, and a solid win can do that. They don't have a realistic shot at a BCS bowl, so for them its not so bad of a move. When it becomes an issue is when a team is looking at getting those final few spots in the BCS standings, as teams like Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Georgia or Auburn can reasonably expect to be a factor.
As for the Sunbelt and C-USA teams scheduling tougher teams than the big dogs, the big dogs have no teams to schedule significantly over themselves. These teams border on the definition of a cupcake in these games, if they lose it does not really matter much, but if they win they can get a foot in the door the conference alignments don't afford them regularly.
and I know I omitted a few others. I have to agree that for some
Div1-A programs a game against a Div1-AA foe can help boost team
moral and confidence especially a program that finished 3-9 or worse
like Marshall vs ILL st so what its early in the season let the boys
let it all hang out if you will, probably a good situation for both programs
Their other non-Conf games are solid winning BCS schools
Wisconsin
West Virginia
Cinncinati
Kinda reminds me of a couple of Rice a couple years ago
had Texas,Florida State and UCLA they somehow finished
the season 7-6 which is really remarkable
Last year they faced 3 B-12 teams and went 0-3
sure some of these are rivalries and some are about $ and exposer
This year the Rice Owls face
Vanderbilt,Texas, North Texas & Army
1 SEC,1-B-12, 1 Sunbelt, 1 Ind
If a team like Rice, one of the smallest Div1-A school was to schedule some Div1-AA opponents what the heck, why not. It would seem pretty hard to establish a winning season
anyway without getting pounded 3 or 4 times early
For a team like Rice or SMu ya why not, but the Mighty V-Tech Hokies
or Miami Hurricanes, na doesnt help you SOS none.
Teams like Texas take heat for their schedule and its really pretty tough
FAU Sun Belt Champs went 8-5 and won their bowl
there only loses were against OK St, KY, USF, UF and they
lost to UL Monroe in OT-- A pretty respectable opponent
Horns then travel to the Sun Bowl Sept 6
UTEP C-USA finished up 4-8
beat New Mexico lost to E Carolina in OT,
Their defense was ranked 117 in the nation
coach Mike Price hired Osia Lewis from UNW and theyre putting in a
3-3-5 scheme this year, so they ought to be better
Coach Price is a great offensive coach and they have a good QB and some good receivers, doesnt look like an automatic W to me. texas secondary is gonna have to stop them.
Arkansas 8-5- SEC --- bitter rival --- enough said
Texas then host Rice
This is an old in state foe thats been playing Texas since way before I ever came to this world
Heck Ben i didnt even know that Tenn Chat had a football team till I saw it on OU's schedule
Adios Tomcat
paying alumni, and season ticket holders allow this junk to happen...I don't know! Boy I could only image if Oklahoma had scheduled 4 out of the 5 Conference winners: Southern California, Ohio State, West Virginia, Louisiana State, or Virginia Tech. Man, talk about your television ratings! Maybe one year the teams will let the fans vote for the teams they want their programs to play!
I teach a class on this down on North avenue at the local technical college in case anyone is interested...
They have enough cupcake batter to feed all the other conferences every year.
Just get over yourselves and start calling the Pac 10 conference the Big 1.
Big 1? Ha. Says the SElf-righteous Conference. Thanks for your humble opinion.
You think it rude to point out a clear bias. And then try and say the Pac 10 stands up to the SEC in talent or any of a hundred or so criteria?
Your in for a long season my friend
You're too intense, my friend.
Hmmm, well, I guess that's being more cordial. You'll have to forgive my Auburn buddies. They're a little concerned about what'll happen when their boyz visit Morgantown later in the season. So, they're out here stirring the pot to get their mind off of the terrible possibilities which awaits their team. As for me, I don't stir the pot; I just tell it like it is. Of course, I usually take 8 friggen paragraphs to make my point, but I do get there eventually.
Honestly, it's only been in recent years that the PAC-10 has been a 1-Man Show. While it's true; there do seem to be more consistent winners than others, it seems many of the teams win big ones, then lose little ones. Right now, AZ, Stanford, and WA are spending the most time in the cellar, with the rest holding up the middle or upper middle, save for USC which can't seem to keep from losing 2 conference games a season. I don't see this as being remarkable, nor do I see a gross number of "cup-cakes". If anything, the PAC-10 kind of looks like a cross between the ACC & Big East - a lot of teams very close in capability & potential, with one standing a little higher above the rest, and a few just below. Sound reasonable?
If you are a BCS school, any 1-AA team or any team from a non-BCS conference is a cupcake to you, no matter how good said cupcake may be... Yes, App state was and still is a cupcake to Michigan, and yes, Boise state was a cupcake who got their icing licked off by Georgia three years ago...
If you belong to a BCS conference, you are NO ONE'S cupcake, no matter how bad you are (see Duke) with the possibility of being a sub-set known as an Inner-Conference Cupcake (ICC) (copyright pending on that acronym, WEA 2008)
There are typically only one or two ICCs per conference. For example, Auburn's SEC cupcake this year is Vanderbilt, in Nashville, and if you are remotely superstitious, you will realize that I just hexed us big time... (double fingers crossed, knocking on my press-board computer desk...)
Instead of focusing on the negative, perhaps we should devote more attention to the positive. What about all these cupcakes who constantly roll into hostile venues in order to take a beating for a paycheck, with the tiny tinge of hope that it might also bring them a little respect, too? Look at what APP State did last year, or what Troy has done the last few years, giving some pretty big teams a few scares.
Maybe we need a term to describe the big boys when they are challenged by the cupcakes. Maybe we'll call them Dog Biscuits, or something like that...(no patent pending on that lousy term...)
BTW: We should never totally eliminate cupcake games. It gives the David's an occasional shot at the Goliaths, and after all, we Americans need to always be rooting for that underdog. But not for Tennessee-Martin in Jordan-Hare in October...
Frankly, I think "cupcake" simply defies definition. There are some obvious ones (e.g.--UF to Citadel--no argument there); but mostly it is a subjective analysis, TBD on an idividual basis.
...especially in this age of parity. I'd propose one exclusion to the "cupcake" analysis: a conference member. You mentioned Vandy; Vandy usually plays SEC teams fairly tough; ditto Kentucky, and Mississippi, and even MSU. Most conference members play each other tough, and any member can take down another--e.g.--Stanford last year, over USC...but I think defining it is almost futile, until the games have been played.
GO GATORS!!
Since the formation of the BCS ,schools from non-BCS conferences are at a disadvantage in every aspect including recruiting and revenue. If the format was somehow magically transformed it would still take these institutions years to catch up with their BCS foes.
We could take the criteria that I believe that Ben mentioned earlier about teams that finish at lower than .500 as cupcakes, which would not really be fair to the Vandy's and Baylor's.
I really don't think that teams from non-BCS conferences should be considered cupcakes, for example you could match up the top MWC teams against say the bottom of the BE and what would be the results? shoot I don't know, but looks like some competitive games to me.
I guess we all have different ideas about what a cupcake is and last year for example UT got alot of slack about Ark St,TCU and UCF. UCF and TCU both had winning seasons and played great games and I would not consider these teams as cupcakes.
OU played N Tex, Tulsa and Miami which would be considered as a cupcake?
N Tex because not only are they Sun Belt, but they also had a losing season, but early in the year nobody really knows, we all just have preconceived notions about what a cupcake is.
Hookem-Horns
Most of us are fortunate that the teams we love have been playing for over a hundred years and are basically grandfathered into the club. And most of our teams have had the good fortune to affiliate with the right conferences, further cementing their stature. Granted, a lot of so-called cupcakes have been playing for a long time, too, but just haven't acheived the same level of success or importance.
There's only one way the cupcakes can become anything better--by playing and eventually beating the big boys. Sure, we knock them a bit and throw sand in their faces, but we respect them for at least trying.
Look at Florida State. Used to be a women's school--didn't even field a team until after the war. Over time, got the reputation of playing anyone, anytime. Used to be known as a cupcake, back when your parents were parking in cars, but not any more. They worked their way up the old-fashioned way.
Look at little Troy, from Alabama. Made the jump to 1-A a few years ago after kicking ass for a long time in 1-AA. They're currently in the process of playing anyone, any time. This process can take decades, and the outcome isn't guaranteed.
A few teams in the state of Louisiana are trying to work their way up, perhaps give the big dog LSU a run at bayou supremacy one day. UL-Monroe gave Alabama quite the shock last year, and they have a shot at Auburn this year. Give them their props--they're down there in the trenches.
We all like to root for the underdog, and perhaps most of us have a cupcake that we sort of pull for, kinda like being a minor-league baseball fan. Maybe we ought to list it here on this thread. I'll start it: My cupcake team is Troy, which has forever been a junior varsity Auburn, being literally an hour down the road.
Who's your cupcake team? Anyone?
I agree that we all like to root for underdogs
I'll pull for N Tex,TCU,Tulsa if they are playing OU
I really like to pull for old SWC teams with the exception of Arkansas
who were bitter rivals with UT
Aug 29 ESPN SMU vs Rice
I'll pull for David Balliff and the Owls
these kinda games may not have any national significance, but it ought to be a heck of a game. BTW Rice is selling tickets for 10 bucks a piece trying to draw a crowd in operation sellout. Rice used to sell out games years ago and beat teams like Bama, Texas and A&M. I would really like to see these small insitutions whup up on a big boy every once in a while.
Hookem-Horns
And while we're at it, list your top-3 celebrity list of women you'd like to bonk and which fanblogger you'd most love to vote off the island...
1) PAC 10 1.4 cupcakes per conference member
2) ACC 2.17 per team
3) SEC 2.83 per team
4) Big 10(11) 2.91 per team
T5) Big East 3.00 per team
T5) Big 12 3.00 per team
Now, if someone wants to get extra credit for statistics class, complete one of the two following exercises:
A) For each BCS conference, calculate the average number of games on the schedule this year played against teams that were ranked in the top 25 last year or that were bowl teams last year...
B) If you're really feeling adventurous, weight each of those games according to the team's final ranking, i.e. playing the number one team results in 25 points, the number five team, 20 points, etc.
If no one volunteers to complete these tasks, they will be assigned according to the lowest CLOUT numbers from Disqus from people posting in this column...
Get to work, people!
Are they making you read Strunk and White's Elements of Style for AP English? Good book, not too long--will teach you how to write...
By the way, I played Reverend Hale when my HS did a production of the Crucible. Critics in Albany raved our performance as being near professional, even beating out two college performances. "I denounce these proceedings. I denounce these proceedings and quit this court."
I guess great minds think alike LOL
:-)
just here for summer break
We had to read Hamlet,MacBeth & David Copperfeild when I
was in H/S. Reading Dickens & Shakespear only helps if you get
on Jeopardy, can't say much else, except somethings are required.
Good luck Bevo-Boy It could be worse!
We read Shakespear our senior year, not freshman.
I guess things have changed in over thirty years.
Heck I thought you read Ivanhoe & Ole Yeller freshmab year.
I just had trouble with certain things because I didnt
understand how these things could help me in my career pursuits
I guess I had the wrong attitude about it, because at the
time it seemed like alot of meaningless trivia, that really didnt
pertain to anything I was doing here. I realize now in retrospect
that I tended to excell in the classes that I enjoyed and barely
skated by in the ones that I at the time considered boring or a bummer.
If I ever get on Jeopardy the topics that will give me trouble are
Literature,Poetry,Opera and Classical Music.
I guess I shoulda paid more attention in class.
Keep up the good work
The answer is The winningest program in the NCAA the last ten years
Who are The Texas Longhorns
Cupcake Edition 08
Tenn Chatt vs OU
Does anybody know the odd's ?
Wonder if OU will beat the spread
What kind of refs are going to officiate the game?
Hope its not Pac-10 refs they don't like the sooners
Sure we all know how great the SEC is and everything,but in reality it helps if the big dogs schedule at least one real tough non conf game. Read footballpicks post at the bottom it makes alot of sense. Teams like USC gain alot of creditbility by scheduling Arkansas,Nebraska, and Ohio State,even though their conference competition may not be as tough, still got to give credit.
Read this and tell me if you still believe it. This article is similar to one written by a Gator blog some time ago, but I can't find it...
I am in 100% total agreement. This disscussion about cupcakes, just tends
to bring up the same ole stuff. Texas A&M played the Citedal and Montana St
But they also played Clemson,V Tech & Miami, scheduling div-1AA opponents
sometimes cant really be avoided like UT vs SHTU, nobody really wants to see these knid of
matchups and sometimes its a disaster in the making like
N Dakota vs Minn or App St vs Mich
If the preceived better team wins it doesnt help them at all.
I agree with you about preseason polls and like it or not certain teams
IE USC, OU, OSU are ranked real high every year
Adios Tomcat
I think your criteria are fair, though they fail to factor in for lost talent and other such variables, since they're based on prior year's results--which are of course, a function of prior year's roster, coaching staff and schedule--all of which change from year to year.
So I maintian that "cupcake" can only really be defined ex post facto. Any such characterization before is mere speculation.
GO GATORS!!
Non conference scheduling is a horrible indicator of the strengthh of a conferences scchedule because it only represents 1/3 of the schedule. 2/3 of the games are in conference so 2/3 of a teams SOS comes from their conference. Maybe I had fun with including Notre Dame as a cupcake, but Navy is not a cupcake.
Looking at the difficulty of the non cupcakes for each schedule gives a result consistent with the number of wins a given coference has over another when they are ranked at adjacent levels in the polls. Here is that advantage:
SEC 3.22
PAC 10: 3.53
ACC: 3.94
Big 12: 4.19
WAC: 4.45
Big 10: 4.98
Big East: 5.03
MWC: 5.31
C-USA: 5.75
Sun Belt: 5.94
MAC: 5.95
Navy: 7.5
The PAC 10 plays the toughest out of conference games, but the SOS is still about a third of a game less than the SEC, once conference games are included.
This is the best we can do before the season, by BCS selection sunday the schedules will be reappraised by this years results, which I do not have yet.
How'd you treat the ICC's?
...and how can you even have ICC's, when you excluded BCS teams from cupcake status?
Maybe it's just me, but I having a heck of a time with your posts in this thread.
GO GATORS!!
Poor Florida. If they go down to the wire tied with another team for a BCS slot this year, the curse of the Citadel may come back to haunt them. Remember in 2004 when it's all anybody could talk about with Auburn having played them, leaving out the fact that we played four top 15 teams on the schedule before the bowls...
Never underestimate the Citadel! They get a bad rap! They're a really solid football team, and they're much better than...
....alright...I can't even type it with a straight face...
GO GATORS!!