Fanblogs.com: Florida schedule ranked easiest in SEC
Zac
· 1 year ago
I don't know about that, but last year's was Bama's by far!!!
Oh, almost forgot,
OOO-TEE-NEE!!!
shiguy
· 1 year ago
damnit zac i soooo wanted FIRST on this thread. kev are you sure against vandy isn't easy?
Zac
· 1 year ago
You get it next time; I promise.
Marko
· 1 year ago
Doesnt matter, Harvin is more hurt than Meyer is saying. Beal, Rainey, Murphy, CI are either done for the season or hurt badly. Unless Moody and Rainey run for 300 years a game, the Gators are looking at another 3 loss season. Dare I say... Miami might upset them.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 1 year ago
Lot of rumors about Harvin. Some say he's hurt, some say he's sitting out because he got into a fight during rehab. No one but #7 and Harvin know for sure.
Clemson_Joe
· 1 year ago
Well, your schedule is always harder if you're not any good, and inversely if you are good. So, I don't take much stock in these at all.
Zac
· 1 year ago
CJ, that's a point I've been making right along. Who REALLY has the toughest schedule in the SEC, Georgia or Vandy???
GeauxTigers0107
· 1 year ago
This will most certainly start the Great Conference Debate....which will never be agreed upon. Every conference has top tier teams, yet some more than others. I honeslty didn't realize Florida had the easiest in the SEC though. Good info Kev. Now if Da Gataz happen to win the MNC, this will be regurgitated ad nauseum(sp?).
I read that article, and I found it rather on point. The SEC has been the strongest conference overall in recent history, but I like how it contrasts to show that that has not always been the case. As are most things in life, strength and power are cyclical. While there is no way in diminishing how impressive it is that the SEC has won 3 of the last 5 BCS titles, I should also like to point out (a stat which I have mentioned at some point earlier), the SEC did not win any titles between Georgia's in 1980 and Alabama's in 1992. What has really been irking me lately, and this is not aimed at you GeauxTiger man, is that most SEC fans couldn't stand the swagger and attitude of Miami and FSU fans in the 90's regarding their caliber as perennial NC contenders, however, many of these same fans have managed to fill that same niche that has been left empty since the recent decline of both of those programs.
Furthermore, I am more than willing to accept the strength of the SEC, but I don't like when strength is argued through arguing the weakness of other conferences. Not very persuasive to me, and more than anything, it is irritating.
GeauxTigers0107
· 1 year ago
I get where you're coming from WC'er. I try not to get into the conference debates for that very reason. At one time, the SEC was down - as noted in the article. You are correct about the attitudes of the Miami and FSU fans in the 90's. I couldn't stand 'em. Not so much now. I think it probably was more envy than anything. I wanted my conference to be as good as those guys and be able to compete with them. It wasn't the case back then.
It's just like you've always heard: everyone likes pulling for the underdog - which of course means pulling against the powerhouses. I guess that's why I pull against SoCal every chance I get...but I respect what they've done over the past 5 years. Something like 58-9, or is it 58-6......very impressive. But someone will always argue "Well look at who they play to get that record". And I would agree to an extent but you still have to give them the props. Until you meet them in a head-to-head match up on the field, it's hard to validate your team being better than theirs. I know, I know....."well we beat so and so who beat you in '86 so we're better"....whatever man...lol.
That's why I say it'll never end. Do I think the SEC is the toughest conference in the land? Absolutely...no question about it.........................since 2003. Hopefully it doesn't cycle around like it has in the past but history shows it will. So I try to enjoy it while I can but in a civil manner..lol. Because eating crow doesn't taste too good. And we've all had our fair share of that.
Geaux Tigers Geaux SEC
Kevin
· 1 year ago
My comment goes to your second paragraph, WestCoaster. SEC fans aren't just saying that the SEC is strong. They're saying that the SEC is the STRONGEST. To make that claim, one must compare the SEC to all other conferences and must -- whether you find it persuasive or not -- discuss reasons why other conferences are weak by comparison
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
Duly noted. However, I disagree due to the fact that arguing another conference's weakness does not prove strength, and if anything, would prove a conference being less weak. Moreover, the best argument to prove strength is through head-to-head match-up comparisons, and since the prevailing school of thought with most in the SEC, which is that SEC schools shouldn't have to play tough OOC schedules because the SEC is so tough, these match-ups do not happen very often and all you have is circular logic.
Regardless, all of this is why a playoff is most necessary.
Regan
· 1 year ago
...don't...go...there...please...
Kershawdw
· 1 year ago
Now that you mention it WestCoaster the Gators do have that obnoxious swagger. As a Canes fan I guess I now know what its like to be on the other side of the spectrum. I mean sometimes gator fans say things that are so obnoxious it makes one want to punch them in the face (not really), When we get back to elite status I think I am going to be more mindful of how obnoxious one can be when their team is winning
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
"...most SEC fans couldn't stand the swagger and attitude of Miami and FSU fans in the 90's regarding their caliber as perennial NC contenders, however, many of these same fans have managed to fill that same niche that has been left empty since the recent decline of both of those programs...."
Where the hell did that come from? Can you back this up with anything other than your personal impression from the West Coast???
Let me counter with my own personal experience on this matter--which carries at least as much authority as your claim--
SEC fans did not become UM or FSU fans during the '90's; we were not jealous of them; if anything, we were a bit skeptical of all that success, since they were never properly challenged on the way to their claimed championships. Charge us with arrogance, we'll plead guilty...charge us with being fair weather, and you expose your own ignorance.
Conversely, UM fans and FSU fans did not suddenly become Gators, or other SEC fans (sure some fairweathers may have jumped ship and picked up a new cause...but for the most part...), UM and FSU fans remained UM and FSU fans.
What's funny to me, is that you claim reflects a common misconception fostered by the mainstream media-- y'all seem to think that the South just discovered football this decade. Nope. More like the elitist reporters with their Big 10/Notre Dame/Pac 10/USCw biases, just discovered SEC football, after having it force fed down their collective throats over the past 5 years.
Coincidentally, the more they refine their measuring system (ie--the BCS), and make it less emotion driven and more fact/merit driven, the more recognition the SEC seems to get. Funny how that one's working out....
b/t/w: bet you didn't know it, but during those years that FSU and Miami had their championship runs, and all that success....UF continually out performed them in attendance--by far.
What's more, UF continued to fill it's stadium--just as it does today--when the cupcakes come to town. FSU and especially Miami--need a name brand oponent to fill their stadiums.
So no, those fans didn't fill any "void"--since there was none to fill; they're still waiting for their teams to come back....their just not wearing their colors as loudly and proudly as they once did.
...and SEC Fan damn sure doesn't rely on those fair weathers. We support our teams through thick and thin, have for a very long time, and will for a long time to come...
...no matter who comes to town, or where our teams go to play.
GO GATORS!!
GeauxTigers0107
· 1 year ago
"...and SEC Fan damn sure doesn't rely on those fair weathers. We support our teams through thick and thin, have for a very long time, and will for a long time to come..."
I have to agree with that TG. Man, I've sat through some s.h.i.t.t.y seasons in Death Valley waiting (and praying) for days like the Tigers (and the SEC for that matter) are having.
Geaux Tigers Geaux SEC
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
Wow. Okay. I did not say SEC fans were fair weather fans--you just chose to interpret what I said that way. The "niche" to which I was referring is in regards to being loud, cocky, and in-your-face with attitude. Never was there a reference to fair weather or a lack of thick-thin loyalty. Maybe your perception of UM/FSU fans caused you to misconstrue my comments.
As for your points, they clearly reflect the conception fostered within the SEC, so don't talk about mainsteam media conceptions or other conceptions and condemn them (even though I don't agree with your conceptions regarding the mainstream media, etc.) when you are clearly just as guilty. (This fact can be most clearly attributed to your reference to the BCS giving the SEC more recognition. I think it is coincidental, and there's nothing funny about how that worked out. Clear example of smug cockiness.)
Anyhow, you can just sit on your high horse and believe what you want, but when there is a power shift and things change, which will inevitably happen, I hope you enjoy that humble pie.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
"...The "niche" to which I was referring is in regards to being loud, cocky, and in-your-face with attitude..."
OK; that's not how I read the comment, but I'll address it in that context.
The essense of my point still stands; and that is that SEC Fan has always believed in the product on or field, notwithstanding how much or how little recognition we get from the national media. We've always been loud and proud--perhaps even arrogant. We don't need validation from the talkn' heads; we get our validation from full stadia, and a satisfying product on the field.
As for "in your face"--I believe you've confused us with Trojan Fan. For all your talk about the SEC's absence from the scene from 1980-92, far more conspicously absent was USCw from 1973 to 2003. Nary a peep from Trojan Fan made it East of teh Miss. R., during that period.
Enter Coach Pete Carroll, and you'd think CFB in the oughts was like surfing to Cali in the '60's. In contrast, Football, particularly of the CFB variety, has ruled the South since about the time that cotton ceased being king.
Maybe I misunderstoood you, but the gist as I understand it, is that you are casting SEC Fan as a "Johnny come lately"--while the gist of my point is that we've always been this way--for better or for worse.
GO GATORS!!
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
First off, I don't understand why what I initially said has made you this worked up.
Moreover, I disagree with what you've said. Regardless of how loud and proud fans were in the past, the uproar is so much greater now that there are crystal footballs to validate what you SEC'ers already believed. I can't even think or speak on this board without getting railed on for my opinion by an SEC fan, which is just ridiculous.
Furthermore, my lack of mentioning SC does not have anything to do with not recognizing that SC fans had been relatively quiet on the national scene prior to the Pete Carroll era. Regardless, just because SC fans are worse now and more of a bandwagon, doesn't make this crap from the SEC fans any better. I brought up SEC fans because this is a thread about Florida, an SEC team. I went to Cal, I hate SC as much as the next person, but I'm not so silly that I don't respect them for what they've done. I too have gotten tired of hearing them and their cocky attitude just as much as I have from the SEC fans who are now screaming so loudly west of the Miss R. because they finally feel self-validated enough to push their opinion this far. Don't accuse me of being out of touch with football in the South and then pretend like you have a grasp of football on the West Coast.
Furthermore, CFB has always ruled in the South because, and don't get all defensive about this, there is so much less going on in the South comparatively. CFB is an integral part of Southern culture. Professional sports, as well as various cosmopolitan/metropolitan factors, play a much larger role in most other parts of the country. Whereas only FL, LA, GA, and just recently TN have any sort of professional sports presence, much less any of the other categories. And no, this paragraph is not meant as any sort of insult, so don't harp on me for being anti-Southern.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
First, not worked up; simply addressing a point;
Second, I wasn't so much addressing the comment, as the attitudte it betrayed (SEC/Johnny come lately's).
Third, I never pretended to have a grasp of sh*t out west; that's why my reference to SC was in terms of making noise east of the miss;
Fourth, your comment about the south might be insulting, if it weren't so idotically unfounded and based on pure ignorance.
So much less going on in the south, huh? You do realize that Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, Charlotte, Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando (and all its theme parks, resorts, etc..), Smokey moutains, about 2,500 miles of beach from South Carolina around FLA up to Mississippi, the best inshore, offshore, and freshwater fishing in the country...the best golf courses in the country..the most resorts....are all located in the South, don't you?
I could go on, but let's just get to perspective: Cali has about 39 million people--that's abot 4 to 5 southern states, including FLA--
...what, too much to do for 39 MILLION people to properly support a CFB team not named "SC Trojans"?
It occurs to me--you are a Johnny-come-lately to the CFB world, aren't you?
...welcome to our passion.
GO GATORS!!
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
Haha, if you are really trying to sell any of those places as being cosmopolitan, you really must have never been outside of the South, let alone the country. I have a buddy from Jacksonville, and he loves the place, but even he wouldn't call it cosmopolitan. Also, have you been to the beach on the Pacific Ocean, because explorers from the 17th century didn't rave about it for no reason.
For all this talk about being ignorant, you don't exactly as strike me as someone who is informed enough to make those kind of assertions. And as for trying to call me out as Johnny-come-lately... HA. You are just the definition of a true fan, huh? Ridiculous.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Your posts keep getting funnier as we go...
Ok, so J'ville isn't cosmo--that's not why it was included. There's still plenty to do there: fishing, boating, golfing, the WLOCP, and it's an NFL city. LA--being the FB crazy town that it is, with its 13 million *potential* fb fans--can't even keep a team. And let's not forget, that Atlanta--that neanderthal, un-cosmo southern town--beat LA out for the '96 Olympics....all of which is way beside the point.
Pick any number of southern states (one must be FLA) to equal Cali's population, and I'll show you 5 powerhouse CFB programs to Cali's 1, and more to do in those states than in Cali. I'll take FLA off the table; you take LA out of it; and I'd still show you 5 such teams, and more to do in the South (though that would leave Cali with zero cfb teams of note).
Basically, what we can conclude from your incredibly capable defense, is that we have 35 million people in Cali eating sushi, sippin' on tea, munchin' on crumpets, and doing whatever faggity cosmo sh*t you cosmopolitan types do for entertainment, to explain why Cali is only good for one cfb power....
....and for all your talk about how SEC Fans is just going to disappear when we inevitably taste of mediocrity again...where's that leave your golden boy Trojan program, and it's die-hard, dyed-in-the-wool, true-blue (as long as they're winning) "fans"? I'm guess'n....not on this site. We already lost a pile of 'em, after that devastating loss to the mighty Cardinal last year...
...yet it's us Johnny-come-lately SEC fb fans filling in that "enormous void", left by FSU and Miami Fan, right?
....thanks for the belly laugh, bubba...don't even need my normal afternoon coffee after that! (...Cuban coffee...your fancy cosmo tastes might actually not be offended by that...).
GO GATORS!!
WestCoaster
· 1 year ago
Wow. You're a self-righteous, closed-minded douche. Congrats.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
YOU:
"...there is so much less going on in the South comparatively..."
"... you really must have never been outside of the South, let alone the country..."
"...For all this talk about being ignorant, you don't exactly as strike me as someone who is informed enough to make those kind of assertions...."
Seems you're the one who's closed minded and self-righteous, with all your assumptions about me and the South.
FWIW, I am pretty well traveled; lived in London for a summer; visted Madrid 2x; traveled all over Spain (Barcelona, Seville, Cordova, Grenada); Lisbon; all over Mexico (Guadalajara, DF, Oaxaca, Acapulco--yeah, I've swam in the Pac.Ocean--wasn't that impressed)-- Veracruz, Merida, Villa Hermosa...); the Carribbean (DR, PR, Cayman Isles, Virgin Isles, Bahamas...); and of course all over the US, East/Miss R. (just not out West--by choice, naturally)....
....but I grew up in Florida, and I'm partial to the South.
Apparently you've never been out here; all YOU know, is the West, and the Pacific Ocean ( Number 4 on my list, after the Carribbean, the Gulf of Mex, and the Atlantic--but before the Mediteranean).
...and "douche"? Seems like the truth about about Cali's enormous population versus its CFB success must've stung a bit.
GO GATORS!!
Zac
· 1 year ago
G.T.0107, I too have read the article. I found it to be relatively informative. Though, I thought I sensed a little bias toward the PAC-10, and a little against the Big-Televen & Big-Twelve. Despite their assertion the Big East alternates with the ACC for the bottom spot, I don't have that much of an issue with it.
I would like to have seen them use one more parameter in their formula. That being a comparison of aggregate won/loss record. In other words, what was the over-all record that a conference faced? If a conference played against an over-all winning record or loosing record, what was the percentage.
If time allows, I'll try to tackle that and get back to the group. It might be easier to just go with non-conference aggregate won/loss record. Either way, it'll be a tedious nightmare for one such as me, but I'm too curious to just turn my back on it.
GeauxTigers0107
· 1 year ago
Zac, I've wondered the same thing but lack the desire you have in doing the homework...lol. It should be quite exhaustive though. Go to the corner, pick up a 12 pack of your favorite adult beverage, maybe a platter of Buffalo Wild Wing's Asian Zing wings and knock that out for us less driven. I'll do the same, minus the homework and wait on the results.
On a slightly more serious note, my job doesn't allow me the time to get those numbers but I look forward to what you find out. Post 'em up when you're done.
Geaux Tigers Geaux SEC
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Excellent article--thanks for posting it.
GO GATORS!!
GeauxTigers0107
· 1 year ago
No prob TG. Just my small insignificant contribution to the site.....no matter the rarity of occurance...lol.
There's another good article at betus.com about your boy Tebow being the odds on favorite to repeat as Heisman, according to the guys in Vegas. I'll look it up later and see if I can provide the link.
Geaux Tigers Geaux SEC
The_Central_Scrutinizer
· 1 year ago
Of *course* UF has the easiest schedule.
They have The Almighty Tim Tivo. He runs. He passes. He causes the blind to walk and the lame see. More than half the AP sportswrithers and nearly ALL sportscasters want to have his children.
TigerEducated
· 1 year ago
Tim Tebow visited the US Virgin Islands...
Afterwards, they were known simply as, "The US Islands"...
Regan
· 1 year ago
Be really careful, TE; enough comments like that and Chuck Norris will act to restore the Facts to their rightful owner.
The_Central_Scrutinizer
· 1 year ago
Chuck Norris watched The Almighty Tim Tivo play last year and tinkled in his panties. [TATT just rinsed 'em out and wore 'em anyway.)
Regan
· 1 year ago
TCS, you seem to be a smart guy - but do not test the wrath of Chuck Norris.
If Chuck Norris was the Gators QB, they wouldn't need the rest of the team. Chuck Norris would roundhouse kick an opposing player and everyone on the other team would die of shock.
I wouldn't wish the wrath of Chuck Norris on ANYONE. :)
Porcine
· 1 year ago
They say under Chuck's chin is not really a beard, but another fist.
Heisman73
· 1 year ago
I am a proud Gators fan and I have enjoyed their back-to-back-to-back successes. All I'm going to say is... you can't win them all. If they do that's great, if they don't, then life moves on. I'm just ready to watch some College Football. Go Gators and Go SEC!!!
Regan
· 1 year ago
This is odd. Florida's schedule looks harder than Kentucky's:
Florida has road games against Tennessee, Arkansas, Georgia (sorta), Vandy, and Florida State.
Yuck.
The Gators have home games against: > Hawaii (laugh if you want, but they did win the WAC in 07 and are by definition a decent team), > Miami (FL) (the 'Canes should scare the Gators given all that talent) > Mississippi (should be a win) > LSU (the whole defending national champion thing) > Kentucky (should be a win, but they were good last year) > USC (the University of South Carolina; see http://www.fanblogs.com/fanblogs/007667.php to see why I'm going to be on one about this in 2008). > The Citadel (should be a win)
On the other hand, Kentucky MISSES both Auburn and LSU, and have a non-conference slate of Louisville, Norfolk State, Akron, and Temple.
UK's has conference road games at Alabama, Florida, and Mississippi State, and SEC home games vs. USC (the University of South Carolina), Arkansas, Georgia, Vandy, and Tennessee.
Heck, since they're both in the SEC East, we can take the two schedules minus the teams they both play and it looks like this:
If absolutely nothing else, the Gators have to get through my Miami Hurricanes; that's enough... :)
Zac
· 1 year ago
As I said up top "I don't know about that." - Translation: I don't agree with FL having the weakest SEC schedule. FL's non-conference schedule alone, by far, is much more challenging than KY's.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 1 year ago
But you're missing the point.... Florida has the easiest SEC schedule, not necessarily the easiest schedule (in total).
Florida beat UT by how many last year? And that's their toughest SEC road game? I rest my case.
Zac
· 1 year ago
I dunno, Kev. I think my closing argument needs to be heard. Consider TN's losses: At Cal, At FL, At AL, & At LSU. The 1st 3 were blow-outs (2 w/in their 1st 3 games), but the game at eventual NC, LSU, was decided by only 7. In the mean time, TN had soundly beaten, eventual #2, GA (beat FL) and won a barn burner at KY (beat LSU). Not to mention, TN won their bowl game; FL lost to the team that lost Appy St. Given the nature of TN's loss to FL, you know the Vol's will be out for revenge. Consider also that FL plays both FSU & Miami. Both should prove to be emotional games; lots of pressure. It may be arguable FL's schedule this year is a tad easier than most in the SEC, but I have to say it's not as easy as KY's. Now you may send the jury to deliberate.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Solid post.
Am I missing something? A neutral to almost positive comment about the Gators from a Miami fan?
b/t/w: I agree with your take on USC v. USCw.
GO GATORS!!
PittsburghTiger
· 1 year ago
This ought to really help out the UF running game!
blackdawg
· 1 year ago
Florida should schedule themselves once a year, every other year on the road. That would definitely increase the strength of their schedule, right RG?
Ramblin' Gator
· 1 year ago
ROTFLMAO! Good one, buddy!
blackdawg
· 1 year ago
Thought you might like that.
grcunning
· 1 year ago
I just got off of SI's site and I have a question. What's with all the torn ACL's? Maybe I just wasn't paying as much attention as I am now, but it just seems like this year every day more players from top programs are out for the season. Practice has been going for 1 week now, and Fl has lost 5 players to ACL tears! Maybe everyone should start wearing knee braces from day one ...or, then again, maybe everyone just wants to be like Tiger.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
S.O.S. cannot be determined until the end of the season For example OU fans bragging about having Miami on their schedule,they ended up a 5-7 team no offense to Hurricane fans, but early in the season everybody is undefeated and playing two in-state rivals is pretty tough in my book. For example last season folks critizied Texas for having UCF & TCU both teams had winning seasons UCF ended up 10-4 lost to Miss st 10-3 in their bowl & TCU ended up 8-5 and won their bowl 20-13 against Houston. I have one OU buddy down here, and thats all I heard was yall dont play nobody and we have Miami. So only until after the season is over can S.O.S. de determined. When looking at the B-12 Missu somehow avoids TTech,OU & A&M and their toughest games look like ILL, UT and KU still not an easy schedule, but more favorable than say UT's or BU's schedule. and for all the fans who questioned KU's success last year you got your wish they have Missu,UT and OU this year.
Zac
· 1 year ago
Tomcat, I luv U man (I know; I'm not getting your Bud Lite.). WVU lost at home to 5-7 Pitt. They were 4-7 going into that game, and finished out 3-3 over the 2nd half. TX lost to eventual 5-7 KS St. They were 5-2 following the win in Austin, but lost their last 5. As you said, till season's end, ya just don't know.
OU_Fan
· 1 year ago
Tomcat, you have a good point. One of the main reasons why I think most OU fans were bragging about the Miami game was for one they were a team from the ACC and for two because of the history between the 2 teams. It wasn't until recently that the Miami Hurricanes started this trend of getting their a**** handed to them, something that was unheard of say 5 years ago. Plus, the Sooners were able to tie the heated rivalry which added a little fuel to the fire. But you are right, at the end of last years season the Canes had a losing record which resulted in pretty much no BCS SOS points for the Sooners. With all that said, you are right in the fact that we should all wait until the end of the season to determine whose schedule was the strongest throughout the season. By observing Mizzou's schedule, besides Texas I think their road to the Big 12 championship is pretty easy. I will be pulling for Neb in the Nebraska-Mizzou game. BOOMER!
"BC"
· 1 year ago
easiest in the SEC means #12 in the country. not too shabby.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Hey BC LOL thats purty funny right there spoken like a true SEC fan, heck no other conference in America even compares. Every year is different and I'm looking foward to the upcoming season. BTW I enjoyed that link that Clemson Joe found about the Clemson vs Bama game very good and informative pre-veiw and comparison. Speaking of SEC schedules does Vanderbilt have the toughest? That would be #1 in the nation right?
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
I swear to Jesus that if I read any more comments about the SEC having 5 coaches who have won a MNC, I'm going to scream. And I'm a SEC guy...
For the love of all things holy, find something else to write about! (the linked thread, not Kevin's)
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Thought you didn't believe in Jesus...agnostic, or something?
One way or the other, would you please be so kind as to respect the name of the person many of us recongnize as the Lord? Your cooperation in this regard would be appreciated.
GO GATORS!!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
I don't. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with the rhetorical comments I made, but sorry if you were offended. I guess it's not your Gator hide that's thinning a bit?
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
"...I guess it's not your Gator hide that's thinning a bit?..."
My comment had nothing to do with Gators or Tigers or even CFB; it was simply directed at your use of the Lord's name in vain. Of course that means nothing you you, since you don't recognize a higher authority. The best way I can relate it to you, is if I posted comments to you in ALL CAPS.
It's not that I'm offended; it's just not good form.
GO GATORS!!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 1 year ago
TG, I suspect that if something like that offends you, that you wear your Christianity on your sleeve like it's an Earl Campbell tear-away jersey.
Go into the locker room, get a new one, and pick your battles more selectively...
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
Again--not offended; just bad form. I'm no more offended by that, that if I replied to you in all caps. It's a simple matter of respect.
b/t/w: seems the one with the thin skin, is the one without the championship, in that list that started your gripe in ther first place.
GO GATORS!!
Marko
· 1 year ago
Until Florida or LSU or Georgia plays in Ann Arbor, College Station or Columbus, Ohio in late November and demonstrate to me that they can win consistently in weather that is not picture perfect... The SEC is overhyped and needs a reality check.
gatorhippy
· 1 year ago
So in contrast, Marko...
Until A Big 10 team plays a game in Athens, Gainesville or Baton Rouge in late August or early September and demonstrate that they can win PERIOD in any temperature above 85 degrees and a humidity level above 80 percent and when the two put together just about robs you of you're ability to breathe...
The Big 10 will remain sub-par in comparison to the SEC when in comparison as a whole...
Marko
· 1 year ago
Uh, its just as hot in Ann Arbor as it is Gainesville in August/September. Michigan's Great Lakes provides plenty of humidity and that synthetic turf just loves to absorb heat making the field 110 degrees on hot summer days.
Don't whine about the Big Ten and Michigan since Florida has NEVER beaten Michigan in football ever. Your "superior" SEC is only .500 vs the Big Ten in bowl games.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
I'll echo Gatorhippy, and elaborate with some of my own personal experience. I've played FB in 10 degrees (NOT including windchill factor), and in the steamy southern heat.
In the cold, I couldn't feel my feet for about 1/2 hour; shivered my ass off; the hits I took were indeed amplified significantly; the pain factor was increased noticiably; even the ball would sting like hell when it hit ya; and it slowed you up quite a bit...all of it, for a while...but once you got running around, it felt good (Note again: 10 degrees, not 20-30).
In the humid heat, you start seeing double...you start seeing triple...you start not seeing at all... you get dizzy...you vomit...you feel beleagured and fatigued...just filling your lungs becomes a chore in and of itself...no amount of ice cold drink will cool you off...a gatorade shower doesn't even do the trick...the longer you're out there, the worse it gets...the only relief comes off the field, in the shade, with lot's of time.
People DIE due to heatstroke--quite regularly, I might add. To my knowledge, no one in the history of FB has ever frozen to death. You're simply not out there long enough--you may get frostbitten on some extremities, but you don't die (unless you neglected the f'bitten area, and let gangreen spread) ....furthermore, the refs and fans would die first, since their hearts wouldn't be pumping nearly as hard and generating heat like the players, so the game would likely be called....
Hence I'm not impressed when you boast of the bucks and wolvies playing in 20-30 degree temperature compared to playing in 95+ with humidity factor of 100% (don't even try to talk sh*t about sub-zero in November; I've dun the northern thing; you're lucky to see south of 30 in December, let alone November). You're equally lucky to see south of 95 in the Swamp, in September, sometimes even into October--let alone August.
...but if it makes you feel better...yeah, we don't get to play in that nice, refreshing 30 degree temperature that the Big 10 gets to enjoy 1 to 2 games per year.
GO GATORS!!
Marko
· 1 year ago
Lets see... in Michigan today... it was 87 and 92% humidity. Gainesville was 87 with 62% humidity. Not to mention that BOTH teams practice indoors anyways.
I've played in extreme heat and extreme cold. And only the extreme cold actually forced me to sit out because of the threat of frostbite.
Like I said. Come to Ann Arbor in November and try to play.
1Tomcat
· 1 year ago
Was that 87 at night? Because here in south Texas our overnight low is 87, during the daytime its 101 to 106 in the shade, out in the sun its 110+. I know from experience what TG is talking about, when your head starts throbbing and then you lose your vision, then you have dry heaves, your thowing up but nothings coming out. We had coaches that would make coach Bryant pround, only pussies need water, hell if you can hack it go to the house. I dont know anything about frostbite- My son plays H/S ball and has never seen snow in his entire life. They have a scrimage south of San Antonio tommorrow has to get up at 5 am get on the bus a 6. The scrimage is scheduled early in the day, due to extreme heat.
TampaGator
· 1 year ago
I'm guess'n the "threat of frostbite" game was not in November--or, the "threat" was simply unwarranted. You don't get frostbitten in 20+ degree temp; you'd need some serious windchill, and extended exposure, for frostbite to even be a possibility--and a football game simply doesn't last long enough; not to mention that players would naturally cover up their extremities....hence frostbite isn't really an issue.
Now, let's talk about this "threat" thing, in relation to actual occurances--when was the last time a football player froze to death? wound up a vegatable due to playing in the cold? In contrast, many players have actually died due to heatstroke. For example: UF lost a player--Eraste Autin--several years ago; he died of heatstroke (reportedly had a body temp of 108 degrees upon arriving at hospital). While not a regular occurance, players do die from it. Fortunatley, I haven't heard of any deaths this year, but there were a couple last year. Also, just last week, a Miami player was take to the hospial in an ambulace, due to heat exhaustion; spent 2 days in hospital. Fortunately they were able to avert disaster in that case, but apparently not without medical intervetion.
Bottom line: you were forced to sit out because of a peceived threat; that Miami player went to the hospital due to a real threat; Mr. Autin died due to a real threat; and when I was toss'n my cookies (multiple occasions, I'm afraid)--I was facing a much more real threat, then when couldn't feel my feet.
I'd take the cold over the heat any day of the week, and twice on Sunday--with a caveat--the conversation would change, if we were talk'n about REAL cold--as in below zero with a significant windchill (....not really an issue in Ohio/Michigan, in November (perhaps Nothern MN/Canada in Jan/Feb...).
A side note: Michael Phelps done Michigan proud; it's hard to hate on Michigan, when a wolverine hauls in that kind of gold.
All Comments
Oh, almost forgot,
OOO-TEE-NEE!!!
At any rate, I read a good article on SI.com that breaks it down pretty well. Here's the link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/s...
Have at it fellas...lol.
Geaux Tigers
Geaux SEC
Furthermore, I am more than willing to accept the strength of the SEC, but I don't like when strength is argued through arguing the weakness of other conferences. Not very persuasive to me, and more than anything, it is irritating.
It's just like you've always heard: everyone likes pulling for the underdog - which of course means pulling against the powerhouses. I guess that's why I pull against SoCal every chance I get...but I respect what they've done over the past 5 years. Something like 58-9, or is it 58-6......very impressive. But someone will always argue "Well look at who they play to get that record". And I would agree to an extent but you still have to give them the props. Until you meet them in a head-to-head match up on the field, it's hard to validate your team being better than theirs. I know, I know....."well we beat so and so who beat you in '86 so we're better"....whatever man...lol.
That's why I say it'll never end. Do I think the SEC is the toughest conference in the land? Absolutely...no question about it.........................since 2003. Hopefully it doesn't cycle around like it has in the past but history shows it will. So I try to enjoy it while I can but in a civil manner..lol. Because eating crow doesn't taste too good. And we've all had our fair share of that.
Geaux Tigers
Geaux SEC
Regardless, all of this is why a playoff is most necessary.
Where the hell did that come from? Can you back this up with anything other than your personal impression from the West Coast???
Let me counter with my own personal experience on this matter--which carries at least as much authority as your claim--
SEC fans did not become UM or FSU fans during the '90's; we were not jealous of them; if anything, we were a bit skeptical of all that success, since they were never properly challenged on the way to their claimed championships. Charge us with arrogance, we'll plead guilty...charge us with being fair weather, and you expose your own ignorance.
Conversely, UM fans and FSU fans did not suddenly become Gators, or other SEC fans (sure some fairweathers may have jumped ship and picked up a new cause...but for the most part...), UM and FSU fans remained UM and FSU fans.
What's funny to me, is that you claim reflects a common misconception fostered by the mainstream media-- y'all seem to think that the South just discovered football this decade. Nope. More like the elitist reporters with their Big 10/Notre Dame/Pac 10/USCw biases, just discovered SEC football, after having it force fed down their collective throats over the past 5 years.
Coincidentally, the more they refine their measuring system (ie--the BCS), and make it less emotion driven and more fact/merit driven, the more recognition the SEC seems to get. Funny how that one's working out....
b/t/w: bet you didn't know it, but during those years that FSU and Miami had their championship runs, and all that success....UF continually out performed them in attendance--by far.
What's more, UF continued to fill it's stadium--just as it does today--when the cupcakes come to town. FSU and especially Miami--need a name brand oponent to fill their stadiums.
So no, those fans didn't fill any "void"--since there was none to fill; they're still waiting for their teams to come back....their just not wearing their colors as loudly and proudly as they once did.
...and SEC Fan damn sure doesn't rely on those fair weathers. We support our teams through thick and thin, have for a very long time, and will for a long time to come...
...no matter who comes to town, or where our teams go to play.
GO GATORS!!
I have to agree with that TG. Man, I've sat through some s.h.i.t.t.y seasons in Death Valley waiting (and praying) for days like the Tigers (and the SEC for that matter) are having.
Geaux Tigers
Geaux SEC
As for your points, they clearly reflect the conception fostered within the SEC, so don't talk about mainsteam media conceptions or other conceptions and condemn them (even though I don't agree with your conceptions regarding the mainstream media, etc.) when you are clearly just as guilty. (This fact can be most clearly attributed to your reference to the BCS giving the SEC more recognition. I think it is coincidental, and there's nothing funny about how that worked out. Clear example of smug cockiness.)
Anyhow, you can just sit on your high horse and believe what you want, but when there is a power shift and things change, which will inevitably happen, I hope you enjoy that humble pie.
OK; that's not how I read the comment, but I'll address it in that context.
The essense of my point still stands; and that is that SEC Fan has always believed in the product on or field, notwithstanding how much or how little recognition we get from the national media. We've always been loud and proud--perhaps even arrogant. We don't need validation from the talkn' heads; we get our validation from full stadia, and a satisfying product on the field.
As for "in your face"--I believe you've confused us with Trojan Fan. For all your talk about the SEC's absence from the scene from 1980-92, far more conspicously absent was USCw from 1973 to 2003. Nary a peep from Trojan Fan made it East of teh Miss. R., during that period.
Enter Coach Pete Carroll, and you'd think CFB in the oughts was like surfing to Cali in the '60's. In contrast, Football, particularly of the CFB variety, has ruled the South since about the time that cotton ceased being king.
Maybe I misunderstoood you, but the gist as I understand it, is that you are casting SEC Fan as a "Johnny come lately"--while the gist of my point is that we've always been this way--for better or for worse.
GO GATORS!!
Moreover, I disagree with what you've said. Regardless of how loud and proud fans were in the past, the uproar is so much greater now that there are crystal footballs to validate what you SEC'ers already believed. I can't even think or speak on this board without getting railed on for my opinion by an SEC fan, which is just ridiculous.
Furthermore, my lack of mentioning SC does not have anything to do with not recognizing that SC fans had been relatively quiet on the national scene prior to the Pete Carroll era. Regardless, just because SC fans are worse now and more of a bandwagon, doesn't make this crap from the SEC fans any better. I brought up SEC fans because this is a thread about Florida, an SEC team. I went to Cal, I hate SC as much as the next person, but I'm not so silly that I don't respect them for what they've done. I too have gotten tired of hearing them and their cocky attitude just as much as I have from the SEC fans who are now screaming so loudly west of the Miss R. because they finally feel self-validated enough to push their opinion this far. Don't accuse me of being out of touch with football in the South and then pretend like you have a grasp of football on the West Coast.
Furthermore, CFB has always ruled in the South because, and don't get all defensive about this, there is so much less going on in the South comparatively. CFB is an integral part of Southern culture. Professional sports, as well as various cosmopolitan/metropolitan factors, play a much larger role in most other parts of the country. Whereas only FL, LA, GA, and just recently TN have any sort of professional sports presence, much less any of the other categories. And no, this paragraph is not meant as any sort of insult, so don't harp on me for being anti-Southern.
Second, I wasn't so much addressing the comment, as the attitudte it betrayed (SEC/Johnny come lately's).
Third, I never pretended to have a grasp of sh*t out west; that's why my reference to SC was in terms of making noise east of the miss;
Fourth, your comment about the south might be insulting, if it weren't so idotically unfounded and based on pure ignorance.
So much less going on in the south, huh? You do realize that Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, Charlotte, Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando (and all its theme parks, resorts, etc..), Smokey moutains, about 2,500 miles of beach from South Carolina around FLA up to Mississippi, the best inshore, offshore, and freshwater fishing in the country...the best golf courses in the country..the most resorts....are all located in the South, don't you?
I could go on, but let's just get to perspective: Cali has about 39 million people--that's abot 4 to 5 southern states, including FLA--
...what, too much to do for 39 MILLION people to properly support a CFB team not named "SC Trojans"?
It occurs to me--you are a Johnny-come-lately to the CFB world, aren't you?
...welcome to our passion.
GO GATORS!!
For all this talk about being ignorant, you don't exactly as strike me as someone who is informed enough to make those kind of assertions. And as for trying to call me out as Johnny-come-lately... HA. You are just the definition of a true fan, huh? Ridiculous.
Ok, so J'ville isn't cosmo--that's not why it was included. There's still plenty to do there: fishing, boating, golfing, the WLOCP, and it's an NFL city. LA--being the FB crazy town that it is, with its 13 million *potential* fb fans--can't even keep a team. And let's not forget, that Atlanta--that neanderthal, un-cosmo southern town--beat LA out for the '96 Olympics....all of which is way beside the point.
Pick any number of southern states (one must be FLA) to equal Cali's population, and I'll show you 5 powerhouse CFB programs to Cali's 1, and more to do in those states than in Cali. I'll take FLA off the table; you take LA out of it; and I'd still show you 5 such teams, and more to do in the South (though that would leave Cali with zero cfb teams of note).
Basically, what we can conclude from your incredibly capable defense, is that we have 35 million people in Cali eating sushi, sippin' on tea, munchin' on crumpets, and doing whatever faggity cosmo sh*t you cosmopolitan types do for entertainment, to explain why Cali is only good for one cfb power....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...GAG....HAHAHAHHA....COUGH....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
....and for all your talk about how SEC Fans is just going to disappear when we inevitably taste of mediocrity again...where's that leave your golden boy Trojan program, and it's die-hard, dyed-in-the-wool,
true-blue (as long as they're winning) "fans"? I'm guess'n....not on this site. We already lost a pile of 'em, after that devastating loss to the mighty Cardinal last year...
...yet it's us Johnny-come-lately SEC fb fans filling in that "enormous void", left by FSU and Miami Fan, right?
....thanks for the belly laugh, bubba...don't even need my normal afternoon coffee after that! (...Cuban coffee...your fancy cosmo tastes might actually not be offended by that...).
GO GATORS!!
"...there is so much less going on in the South comparatively..."
"... you really must have never been outside of the South, let alone the country..."
"...For all this talk about being ignorant, you don't exactly as strike me as someone who is informed enough to make those kind of assertions...."
Seems you're the one who's closed minded and self-righteous, with all your assumptions about me and the South.
FWIW, I am pretty well traveled; lived in London for a summer; visted Madrid 2x; traveled all over Spain (Barcelona, Seville, Cordova, Grenada); Lisbon; all over Mexico (Guadalajara, DF, Oaxaca, Acapulco--yeah, I've swam in the Pac.Ocean--wasn't that impressed)-- Veracruz, Merida, Villa Hermosa...); the Carribbean (DR, PR, Cayman Isles, Virgin Isles, Bahamas...); and of course all over the US, East/Miss R. (just not out West--by choice, naturally)....
....but I grew up in Florida, and I'm partial to the South.
Apparently you've never been out here; all YOU know, is the West, and the Pacific Ocean ( Number 4 on my list, after the Carribbean, the Gulf of Mex, and the Atlantic--but before the Mediteranean).
...and "douche"? Seems like the truth about about Cali's enormous population versus its CFB success must've stung a bit.
GO GATORS!!
I would like to have seen them use one more parameter in their formula. That being a comparison of aggregate won/loss record. In other words, what was the over-all record that a conference faced? If a conference played against an over-all winning record or loosing record, what was the percentage.
If time allows, I'll try to tackle that and get back to the group. It might be easier to just go with non-conference aggregate won/loss record. Either way, it'll be a tedious nightmare for one such as me, but I'm too curious to just turn my back on it.
On a slightly more serious note, my job doesn't allow me the time to get those numbers but I look forward to what you find out. Post 'em up when you're done.
Geaux Tigers
Geaux SEC
GO GATORS!!
There's another good article at betus.com about your boy Tebow being the odds on favorite to repeat as Heisman, according to the guys in Vegas. I'll look it up later and see if I can provide the link.
Geaux Tigers
Geaux SEC
They have The Almighty Tim Tivo. He runs. He passes. He causes the blind to walk and the lame see.
More than half the AP sportswrithers and nearly ALL sportscasters want to have his children.
Afterwards, they were known simply as, "The US Islands"...
[TATT just rinsed 'em out and wore 'em anyway.)
If Chuck Norris was the Gators QB, they wouldn't need the rest of the team. Chuck Norris would roundhouse kick an opposing player and everyone on the other team would die of shock.
I wouldn't wish the wrath of Chuck Norris on ANYONE. :)
Florida has road games against Tennessee, Arkansas, Georgia (sorta), Vandy, and Florida State.
Yuck.
The Gators have home games against:
> Hawaii (laugh if you want, but they did win the WAC in 07 and are by definition a decent team),
> Miami (FL) (the 'Canes should scare the Gators given all that talent)
> Mississippi (should be a win)
> LSU (the whole defending national champion thing)
> Kentucky (should be a win, but they were good last year)
> USC (the University of South Carolina; see http://www.fanblogs.com/fanblogs/007667.php to see why I'm going to be on one about this in 2008).
> The Citadel (should be a win)
On the other hand, Kentucky MISSES both Auburn and LSU, and have a non-conference slate of Louisville, Norfolk State, Akron, and Temple.
UK's has conference road games at Alabama, Florida, and Mississippi State, and SEC home games vs. USC (the University of South Carolina), Arkansas, Georgia, Vandy, and Tennessee.
Heck, since they're both in the SEC East, we can take the two schedules minus the teams they both play and it looks like this:
FLA: HAW, MIA, MISS, LSU, UK, Citadel, FSU
UK: LOU, Norfolk State, AKR, TEMP, FLA, BAMA, MSST
Kentucky has an easier schedule than Florida.
If absolutely nothing else, the Gators have to get through my Miami Hurricanes; that's enough... :)
Florida beat UT by how many last year? And that's their toughest SEC road game? I rest my case.
Am I missing something? A neutral to almost positive comment about the Gators from a Miami fan?
b/t/w: I agree with your take on USC v. USCw.
GO GATORS!!
What's with all the torn ACL's?
Maybe I just wasn't paying as much attention as I am now, but it just seems like this year every day more players from top programs are out for the season.
Practice has been going for 1 week now, and Fl has lost 5 players to ACL tears!
Maybe everyone should start wearing knee braces from day one
...or, then again, maybe everyone just wants to be like Tiger.
For example OU fans bragging about having Miami on their schedule,they ended up a 5-7 team
no offense to Hurricane fans, but early in the season everybody is undefeated and playing two in-state rivals is pretty tough in my book. For example last season folks critizied Texas for having UCF & TCU both teams had winning seasons UCF ended up 10-4 lost to Miss st 10-3 in their bowl & TCU ended up 8-5 and won their bowl 20-13 against Houston. I have one OU buddy down here, and thats all I heard was yall dont play nobody and we have Miami. So only until after the season is over can S.O.S. de determined.
When looking at the B-12 Missu somehow avoids TTech,OU & A&M and their toughest games look like ILL, UT and KU still not an easy schedule, but more favorable than say UT's or BU's schedule.
and for all the fans who questioned KU's success last year you got your wish they have Missu,UT and OU this year.
not too shabby.
Speaking of SEC schedules does Vanderbilt have the toughest? That would be #1 in the nation right?
For the love of all things holy, find something else to write about! (the linked thread, not Kevin's)
One way or the other, would you please be so kind as to respect the name of the person many of us recongnize as the Lord? Your cooperation in this regard would be appreciated.
GO GATORS!!
My comment had nothing to do with Gators or Tigers or even CFB; it was simply directed at your use of the Lord's name in vain. Of course that means nothing you you, since you don't recognize a higher authority. The best way I can relate it to you, is if I posted comments to you in ALL CAPS.
It's not that I'm offended; it's just not good form.
GO GATORS!!
Go into the locker room, get a new one, and pick your battles more selectively...
b/t/w: seems the one with the thin skin, is the one without the championship, in that list that started your gripe in ther first place.
GO GATORS!!
Until A Big 10 team plays a game in Athens, Gainesville or Baton Rouge in late August or early September and demonstrate that they can win PERIOD in any temperature above 85 degrees and a humidity level above 80 percent and when the two put together just about robs you of you're ability to breathe...
The Big 10 will remain sub-par in comparison to the SEC when in comparison as a whole...
Don't whine about the Big Ten and Michigan since Florida has NEVER beaten Michigan in football ever. Your "superior" SEC is only .500 vs the Big Ten in bowl games.
In the cold, I couldn't feel my feet for about 1/2 hour; shivered my ass off; the hits I took were indeed amplified significantly; the pain factor was increased noticiably; even the ball would sting like hell when it hit ya; and it slowed you up quite a bit...all of it, for a while...but once you got running around, it felt good (Note again: 10 degrees, not 20-30).
In the humid heat, you start seeing double...you start seeing triple...you start not seeing at all... you get dizzy...you vomit...you feel beleagured and fatigued...just filling your lungs becomes a chore in and of itself...no amount of ice cold drink will cool you off...a gatorade shower doesn't even do the trick...the longer you're out there, the worse it gets...the only relief comes off the field, in the shade, with lot's of time.
People DIE due to heatstroke--quite regularly, I might add. To my knowledge, no one in the history of FB has ever frozen to death. You're simply not out there long enough--you may get frostbitten on some extremities, but you don't die (unless you neglected the f'bitten area, and let gangreen spread) ....furthermore, the refs and fans would die first, since their hearts wouldn't be pumping nearly as hard and generating heat like the players, so the game would likely be called....
Hence I'm not impressed when you boast of the bucks and wolvies playing in 20-30 degree temperature compared to playing in 95+ with humidity factor of 100% (don't even try to talk sh*t about sub-zero in November; I've dun the northern thing; you're lucky to see south of 30 in December, let alone November). You're equally lucky to see south of 95 in the Swamp, in September, sometimes even into October--let alone August.
...but if it makes you feel better...yeah, we don't get to play in that nice, refreshing 30 degree temperature that the Big 10 gets to enjoy 1 to 2 games per year.
GO GATORS!!
I've played in extreme heat and extreme cold. And only the extreme cold actually forced me to sit out because of the threat of frostbite.
Like I said. Come to Ann Arbor in November and try to play.
I know from experience what TG is talking about, when your head starts throbbing and then you lose your vision, then you have dry heaves, your thowing up but nothings coming out. We had coaches that would make coach Bryant pround, only pussies need water, hell if you can hack it go to the house.
I dont know anything about frostbite- My son plays H/S ball and has never seen snow in his entire life. They have a scrimage south of San Antonio tommorrow has to get up at 5 am get on the bus a 6. The scrimage is scheduled early in the day, due to extreme heat.
Now, let's talk about this "threat" thing, in relation to actual occurances--when was the last time a football player froze to death? wound up a vegatable due to playing in the cold? In contrast, many players have actually died due to heatstroke. For example: UF lost a player--Eraste Autin--several years ago; he died of heatstroke (reportedly had a body temp of 108 degrees upon arriving at hospital). While not a regular occurance, players do die from it. Fortunatley, I haven't heard of any deaths this year, but there were a couple last year. Also, just last week, a Miami player was take to the hospial in an ambulace, due to heat exhaustion; spent 2 days in hospital. Fortunately they were able to avert disaster in that case, but apparently not without medical intervetion.
Bottom line: you were forced to sit out because of a peceived threat; that Miami player went to the hospital due to a real threat; Mr. Autin died due to a real threat; and when I was toss'n my cookies (multiple occasions, I'm afraid)--I was facing a much more real threat, then when couldn't feel my feet.
I'd take the cold over the heat any day of the week, and twice on Sunday--with a caveat--the conversation would change, if we were talk'n about REAL cold--as in below zero with a significant windchill (....not really an issue in Ohio/Michigan, in November (perhaps Nothern MN/Canada in Jan/Feb...).
A side note: Michael Phelps done Michigan proud; it's hard to hate on Michigan, when a wolverine hauls in that kind of gold.
GO USA!!
GO GATORS!!
LOL...Nice work, hipster...