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Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

gatorhippy — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:27:29 -0000

Tell you what...

I'll give you a chance to go back and correct yourself this time before I dive in and pick that apart...

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:43:29 -0000

I don't know does it? Do you think I was trying to bother you?

Your comments took on a derogatory tone way before mine. I just followed suit and didn't bother being subtle about it.

LOL, you say you haven't taken anything out of context and then you proceed to do exactly that.

You went on a whole spiel about the traffic being the same, and the use of city personnel not being a factor and so on and so on....

I was never arguing those point's they were merely examples of other things I could have been talking about when I said "the city didn't have half the problems" but what do you do? You take those EXAMPLES quote me on them and then proceed to argue them when they were never my positions to begin with. Do you see how this can be aggravating for me when I have to defend myself against things I haven't stated, but you think I have????

I do notice you didn't have an argument for the people dying thingy where is your defense there? Oh wait I remember you did have a rebuttal its that it was Jax residence running around killing people and so that makes the WLOCP innocent. If you feel that way great, try convincing that guys family the WLOCP didn't have anything to do with it because they think it did......

But thank god you finally have decided to post your opinion. How kind of you to give me a chance to discredit you and everything you say. Now that your behind the cue ball let's see how long you stick around.

1. "the conditions of the city have deteriorated and crime has escalated especially in the neighborhoods in the downtown area..."

Not True.
Springfield, Riverside, and San Marco the areas surrounding downtown have for the past few years enjoyed relatively low crime rates. Springfield specifically in the last few years has done an almost 180. The crime and drugs were driven north of the MLK expressway and people have moved in and invested in the property there. I have worked with a number of contractors and private investors who have dealings in this area and my guess would be that in a few years Springfield will be comparable to the San Marco/Riverside communities. Which I’m sure you know are very nice....

So if your stance is that these unfortunate events that transpire during the WLOCP are simply due to the area gradually succumbing to an increase of local crime you would be wrong my friend. And you can go to JSO crime stats pull up the map and check these areas year by year if you don't believe me. So despite what you have stated, downtown is safer now than it was 5 years ago. Not quit the crime trend you alluded to.

2. It hasn't been called ALLTELL stadium in awhile where have you been?

Anyways we agree with the economic impact being good for the city. I don't know how much of that St. Augustine ever gets their hands on. Ponte Vedra and the Beaches would have been a better example, as I’m sure they see more of an influx than St. Augustine.

But don't be fooled into thinking that game can't be replaced or is "vital" to Jacksonvilles economy. The money it brings in is just a fraction of the overall tourism dollars for the area and that industry itself is not even close to being one of the major industries VITAL to Jax.

First and foremost we are a transportation hub with a seaport that's only second to New York's. We have four airports, three major rails, and a highway system that links us to three major interstates. The logistical prospects of the area have attracted a huge manufacturing presence to Jacksonville. Next on the list would be the naval air stations. Jacksonville has a massive military force third in the country to be exact. These bases contribute over 6.1 billion annually to the local economy. I could keep going and make your assertion that the WLOCP is vital to Jacksovilles economy just seem idiotic. I think I will.... Lets see….. Hell the film industry has a bigger impact, the filming of the Manchurian Candidate alone contributed 99mil to the local economy. And Jacksonville works hard to become an attractive production option for films, tv shows, and commercials. So don't believe for a second that the so called WLOCP isn't expendable. Believe it or not the world doesn't revolve around CFB....

Ok now your assertions are just getting embarrassing and its clear you stated a few opinions about something you knew very little about.

Sound familiar?

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

gatorhippy — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 22:58:19 -0000

I've read your comments verbatim all along using the points you provided...

I haven't "twisted" one thing, bub, but took them at face value the way you typed them...

You can be colorful and say what you mean...

Increase in public safety personnel?

Hardly more needed for the UF/UGA game than any other contest played at ALLTELL specifically the Nole/Bammer game that actually had a slightly higher attendance...

Number of deaths associated with the event?

We've already seen that only one that you have mentioned was free of the local yokel involvement...

If you have more please feel free to tell us about them but lets please use the examples involving UF on UGA violence that led to it and not instigated by local hoodlums...

The traffic?

Looking at the recomendations and ops plans posted online by the DCSD in all events involving large events in the stadium and downtown area and its largely the same...

As a matter of fact, there was MORE concern of traffic according to the DCSD for the Nole/Bammer contest given that the vast majority was perceived as to those particular visitors not knowing the annual routine...

Now had you perhaps thought about it a bit and posted your retractment in the first place we would be having a totally different tone of discussion as it's not full of gross generalizations and false statements...

Rather than refuting that the UF/UGA Classic is what is turning JAX into another ATL and having to point out that largely the instances to which you referred had nothing to do with the game and were either perpetuated by JAX residents or the fault of irresponsible alcohol service...

We could have had a more civil discussion on the economic impact and the worth of the event overall for the JAX community at large and what the largely terrific hospitality provided by the city of JAX means to students, alumni and fans of both institutions who attend this game annually whether for the first time or for the sixtieth time and have watched the area surrounding the stadium become ever more dangerous over the years as JAX has grown larger and become more and more infested with the issues that plague large cities such as ATL...

So with out further ado, I'll go ahead and finallly get around to making MY point now...

The DCSD has increasingly worked with both universities as the conditions of the city have deteriorated and crime has escalated especially in the neighborhoods in the downtown area...

As well as that in my experience in attending this game for for over thirty years (not consecutively mind you, as I missed a few in the Eighties and Nineties) has been that it has annually seen improved behavior as I pointed out above and nowhere resembles the free for all moniker that the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail party had been famous for in the past...

This is largely due to both the Universities and the CoJax working together over the years to improve the safety of the environment for visitors and residents alike...

I would also question the notion of taking money out of the pockets of hard working Jax citizens by removing a 15 - 25 million dollar annual boon to the city's economy given the state of the economic situation we are facing currently...

Also, Jax just lost the ACC CG to Tampa/Charlotte which means one less large money influx per year as it is...

Picking up the FSU/Bama contest was excellent for city residents that work in the hospitality & service industry and followed by the Noles contest with Colorado this past season...

Having this type of tourism is vital to JAX as it is largely the only type of tourism that generates these type of numbers flowing into the pockets of not just many Greater Metro JAX residents but trickling out to surrounding communities such as St. Augustine providing them with an influx of tourism dollars as well...

In all honesty, I'm willing to blindly bet even the Jaguars 8 home games combined don't provide the amount of tourism dollars that the Gator Bowl, UF/UGA, FSU/?? and formerly the ACC CG provide in the four weekends combined they are played...

Though I could be wrong...

My opinion were I CoJAX resident would be to continue to look at these past tragic isolated incidents and work with all involved at the administrative level to delve into what we can do to make it safer and continue to keep these enormous sources of revenue flowing into town...

My opinion as a long time attendee of this game is that it doesn't really matter to me whether it is in JAX, ATL or rotated between campuses because I'll still attend the game regardless of where it is just as I did when ALLTELL was being remodeled...

And honestly, if you don't want your opinion to be questioned, commented on or torn apart I would suggest you not post it in a public forum...

I think you are confusing "arrogance" for "confidence" and I assure you I'm not in over my head in any way, shape or form...

I'm here for discussion, argument and debate and conduct myself in largely the same manner I would were we standing in an auditorium behind opposing podiums...

Your statements are more and more beginning to resemble another periodic poster here that has largely the same issues you do when the discussion isn't going the way he wants it to as he's getting verbally flogged...

Profane name calling and homosexual (phobic?) inferences like a middle schooler...

None of which bothers me nor does it do anything to solidify your position...

It's simple really...

As I said before you keep posting the drivel and apparently "read between the lines for my real meanin" comments and I'll keep calling you out...

I can go on and on...

It's up to you...

And do you really think calling me a tree hugger bothers me?

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:28:34 -0000

WOW your stamina on this issue has no end.

I got called out for what???

Your interpreting something a certain way and then trying to superimpose that onto me.

This whole argument has been more about you twisting my words and me clarifying or reiterating certain points that you refuse to acknowledge.

The whole thing is really getting old....

I would prefer not to debate with someone who is so close minded.

But apparently you can't just let it go... but trust me I'm not going anywhere (especially not trips to meet TG, I'm sure he appreciates your stamina).

Let's take the little tidbit of info you called me out on above and illustrate how close minded you can be.

When I say half the problems it could mean any number of things. Maybe it's the increase in public safety personal that's required, maybe it's the number of deaths that have been associated with the event, maybe it's all the damm traffic. The point is you didn't bother asking me what it is I meant you just took one possible aspect of what I said and attempted to call foul while conveniently ignoring any other angles. Now I admitted I may have been looking at things from a skewed vantage point. But you cannot admit the same thing???

Here to save you trouble from going back and taking my words out of context or whatever it is you are going to try and do if and when you respond, I'm going to issue a retractment of my original statement regarding the WLOCP and issue a new one.

In regards to the WLOCP possibly leaving Jacksonville.....
I, a local resident and college football fan am of the opinion that while the game is rooted in a long standing tradition and has been greatly successful from a economic standpoint it may be time to reassess the negative social implications this event has seem to harbored and whether the good out weights the bad.

That statement seems rather boring does it not? We all are trying to be color commentators on here and my fist post was an example of this.

But i'll just keep it plain and simple if people are going to go on a freaking crusade if I attempt to put a personal spin on things.

I hope your arrogance hasn't got you in over your head here because Im like Shrek when it comes to layers....

Good luck.....

@sshole....

no caps is that more classy?
only for you tree huger.....

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

gatorhippy — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:22:23 -0000

Bama/Florida St. generated just as much money last year and the city didn't have half the problems.

This is factually wrong...

A perusal of the arrest records on the Duval County Sherriff's Dept. Crimefinder shows less arrests for assault/battery within a half mile radius of the Landings for the UF/UGA game in 2007 than for the Nole/Bammer contest...

Again, you are broadly uninformed and flat wrong in most instances that have been placed here...

And got called out accordingly...

Deal with it...

And again with the profanity and in all caps no less...

Classy, nutboy, real classy...

But you keep posting on this and I'll keep peeling your layers off...

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:53:20 -0000

Is that what I admitted too?

I thought I was saying I would give it a second chance and maybe you convinced me that when people die during this event its of their own accord and not due to the mayhem inspired by the WLOCP.

False facts?
The only thing I misstated was how and where two people died. I got the two mixed up, after that I posted the article and admitted I had it backwards. What else would you like me to do to clarify that?

But hey don't answer that last question....
I'm sure any response I could think of would just be a slew of stuttering, stumbling misguided notions......

Gee thanks for being cordial AFTER I basically concede the argument....

@SSHOLE...

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

gatorhippy — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:22:41 -0000

I agree, WEAtl...

"Batter-dipped" is certainly more appropriate in regards to him...

Especially the "dip" part...

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

gatorhippy — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:20:11 -0000

I know I wasn't, Sweater Vest...

And I see that above you have finally admitted you were speaking of what you know not of while presenting a slew of false facts in your stuttering and stumbling attempt to back it up...

Any other broad generalizations you'd like to float so I can pop them too?

Or have I worked you over to a point that all you have left is homo-phobic insinuations (fantasies?) of TG and myself...

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

Ramblin' Gator — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 15:28:58 -0000

On a related tangent...

The party I attended last night (the one where I got a smooch from Lucy) had deep fried Oreos. I'd never had them before, but I'm addicted now.

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

War_Eagle_Atlanta — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 15:16:06 -0000

How else do you prepare corndogs? Pan-seared?

:-)

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

Ramblin' Gator — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:46:42 -0000

...and deep fried - this is the south, after all.

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:21:26 -0000

^
^
^
^
^
^
LOL, alright man take it easy.....

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

TampaGator — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:13:38 -0000

Buckstops:

You'll be privvy to that, when the Queen calls it into question.

I'll concede this much though:
the level of conversation may have just taken a turn towards the north; unfortunately (perhaps fortunately--depending on one's perspective)-I can't continue, as I have business accross the Peninsula to which I must attend.

Catchya' later.

...perhaps in a different thread.

GO GATORS!!

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:59:52 -0000

See I disagree...

Your example was a good illustration. Does it ring hollow?
I mean they did close Guantanamo Bay......

It may be human nature to dismiss the merit of one’s thoughts on a subject based on the perceived reputation of that person. But in reality one does not affect the other they are two separate entities. Ones integrity does not make their opinions wrong or right. Tell me what would your tactic for defending the WLOCP be if it were the Queen of England who called the event into question??

Now we're getting somewhere......

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

War_Eagle_Atlanta — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:40:27 -0000

TE is more 'batter-dipped'...

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

TampaGator — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:36:29 -0000

There there, Bucky...

...it'll all get better when the meds kick in...

b/t/w: You have an OPINION regarding the level of "class" re. the WLOCP--your OPINION carries weight roughly proportional to your level of respect in the arena of class--which, by your own account, is next to nothing.

To illustrate:

The Taliban expresses an opinion regarding human rights violations--it would ring rather hollow.

See how that works, sparky?

GO GATORS!!

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:02:18 -0000

LOL, nah man I don't think your the same person....
Well maybe at times you two can become "one" if you know what I mean......

I'm glad you completed your mission of demonstrating that I don't have class to defend the WLOCP from my assertion that it lacks class. That was a pretty elaborate ruse. You are indeed very talented in your manipulation. Such subtle skill......

Too bad your fourth grade mentality can't realize that the WLOCP can lack class at the same time a classless person can be of the opinion that it lacks class. And by simply highlighting the lack of class possessed by such a person in no way solidifies the class or lack of class of the WLOCP.

BUT GOOD WORK anyways....

GO GATORS!!!

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:48:51 -0000

You weren’t, not after going on your rendezvous.....errr.. trip you have re-grouped and came on strong well at least you did TG is still incoherent in his responses........

It definitely seems like you returned from your escapade.....err.... trip rejuvenated.

Tell me did you "bump" into anyone you know????

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

TampaGator — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:47:56 -0000

Buckstops:

[Maybe this should've gone here...it's hard to keep these identities straight, ya know....].

You think Gatorhippy and I are the same person?

You've lost your freak'n marbles.

My objective was just to expose you for lacking class, and therefore discrediting your assertion about the WLOCP and class (mission accomplisched--in spades)...

...not to have you babbl'n nonsense in a straight jacket in a padded room.

Sorry for mess'n with your head there bud.

GO GATORS!!

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

TampaGator — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:43:34 -0000

Buckstops:

You think Gatorhippy and I are the same person?

You've lost your freak'n marbles.

My objective was just to expose you for lacking class, and therefore discrediting your assertion about the WLOCP and class (mission accomplisched--in spades)...

...not to have you babbl'n nonsense in a straight jacket in a padded room.

Sorry for mess'n with your head there bud.

GO GATORS!!

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:39:45 -0000

OHHHH the hypocrisy I just can't take it....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE SAID CLASS AND THEN SAID SH*T!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

MY @SS IS FALLING OFF I"M LUAGHING SO HARD!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHA

go gators!!!

(Notice the three !!! = I care more)

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:32:04 -0000

I told you I know what you know and that you know what it is that I know and that is that I know the point you were trying to make and you finally made it.

But before you did you insisted that wasn't the point you were making.

Which in fact you were but through the means of trying to manipulate me into making your point for you.

Nice try.........

But since that little game is over. I will concede that my opinion may not have much validity due to the fact I only gave it one chance. Maybe I shouldn't let one bad experience shape my entire view. I agree I was taking a far right stance and may have harshly condemned the entire event.

But forget all this nonsense we've been talking about.......

I want to know what you and TG are doing taking "business" trips together????

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

The_Observer — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:21:23 -0000

"my dough covered weinerish friend"

I'm gonna use that!

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

thebuckstopshere — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:03:32 -0000

You have demonstrated a condition that may not have yet been discovered.

I think I will name it selective reading.

I fear due to the nature of the condition in which you are afflicted, this conversation has reached its end. Thank you for trying and good luck with your future discussions.

GO GATORS!!!

Re: Jax throwing heat in bid to keep Cocktail Party

TampaGator — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 10:25:20 -0000

Gatorhip:

"...Nothing like a little profanity to get your point across..."

Exactly--especially when his primary point was that the WLOCP "lacks class."

Yes, he's quite the authority on all things "class"...

LMAO!

GO GATORS!!