Fanblogs.com: Live from Starkville... its the Dan Mullen Show!
Ramblin' Gator
· 11 months ago
Baghdad Bob is being more than a little naive. How could this NOT be a distraction??!!
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
A repeat of history! A florida school loses it's OC right before the NC game to Oklahoma (Mark Richt to Georgia 2000). The rest of the story, FSU lost scoring 0 offensive points! I sure hope Urban doesn't have any coaching age sons!
Ramblin' Gator
· 11 months ago
The other story is LSU winning the title last year while Bo Pelini had one foot out the door heading to Nebraska. Just the same, this has to be a distraction and can't be good for UF's game preparation.
WarEagleFan
· 11 months ago
Great Hire for MS now maybe they can start competing in the West. Which whould only raise the level of competion for everybody else.
AUtigerman
· 11 months ago
Great hire MS. How bout we get Turner Gill.
AUtigerman
· 11 months ago
Just ask Bobby Bowden if its a distraction. He has said now in hind sight he should have let Mark Richt go instead of keeping him for the Orange bowl when they lost to Oklahoma in 2000.
Good luck to MS and Dan Mullen.
Mr2Bits
· 11 months ago
Not really sure how to take this. Everyone was calling for Mullen's head with his predictable play calling not even two months ago. Sure our players have executed and made some big plays but I reiterate my comment that the calling is still today, very predictable. It’s a first/second and goal run Tebow off tackle/up the middle predictable. Whomever they get in there before the game will come up guns blazing with something to prove.
TampaGator
· 11 months ago
I hadn't heard any calls for his head whatsoever; I thought he was pretty solid.
We'll miss him, but for now, we'll probably just promote Tim Tebow to OC!
...in the interim, anyway....
GO GATORS!!
Ramblin' Gator
· 11 months ago
I believe Mr2Bits is correct. I recall some griping about how the offense was underperforming even going into the Arkansas game. Since then, it's all been smiles and sunshine.
This hire is no surprise to me at all. A few years ago when everyone was switching their defenses to the Tampa-2, any coach with experience was getting opportunities thrust at them. Now, the spread option is the offense du jour. Heck, the rumor around Orlando today is that Charlie Strong will be the next HC at UCF.
Good luck to Mullen and Miss State, though I really wish he wasn't going to an SEC school.
Mr2Bits
· 11 months ago
Yes, this was after the Ole Miss loss and essentially through the Arkansas game. It was the spin the wheel style office. Tebow run left/right/middle or Harvin left/right/middle
UF will be fine but I think Miss State may keep him heel deep if 2-3 years doesn't turn.
Oh and I had Charlie looking to go to Auburn but thats just my opinion.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
At least it isn't run up the middle twice and try a hail mary! We dealt with that for years! Count Your blessings his predictable offense WORKS!
TampaGator
· 11 months ago
Gator Nation genuinely wishes Dan Mullen great success in the SEC...
...WEST.
GO GATORS!!
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
The good thing about this hire-from my point of view-is that the offense that he's running is not required to be manned by 4 & 5 star athletes.
The Spread Option can be manned by waterbugs, and inferior talent on the lines, as well...The splits they get on the line, and the skill positions don't have to be prototypical sized players, either.
You can rely on inferior size/weight/heights, because the scheme is designed to get a speedy skill position in player in space against the defender...From there, it doesn't matter if the kid's 5'-9", 175...If he can make a man miss, they'll move the chains.
Also, you've got the guy whose tutored Alex Smith (#1 overall NFL Draft Pick), Chris Leak (National Champion), and Tim Tebow (National Champion, Heisman Winner, gunning for a shot at a 2nd championship)...
He will find a quarterback, and he will find speed.
Believe it or not, Mississippi, along with the Community & Junior College ranks to be found in that state-which draw from all over the South and churn out talent regularly to all SEC programs-will produce more than enough skill position speed for Mullen to be able to utilize the offense.
Now, I'll be honest in that Meyer had to scale back his plans his first year at Florida due to Leak was ill-at-ease with all the facets of Urban's offense. But, after year one, and year two, my guess is that Mullen will field a competitive team.
I think its an excellent hire on Mississippi State's part...and Mullen will succeed...He's been productive as a playcaller, as well as a developer of talent at his position, at every stop along his coaching career's route.
Zac
· 11 months ago
Good analysis, TE. Without question, he'll improve the MS St offense. Now, is he bright enough to find the right personnel to run his defense?
Gatorboy41
· 11 months ago
I don't agree that the spread, 'can be manned by waterbugs, and inferior talent on the line as well. If so then, wouldn't there be more successful teams. Then the Gators wouldn't need a heisman trophy winner at QB, or a Percy Harvin, and some other super fast players, that could arguably be the fastest team in the nation. Some of these skilled player, will make plays that, a so called waterbugs will not make. Waterbugs, and inferior player would not beat Alabama, and UGA, or be playing for a NC. You will still need some skill across the board.
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
You're taking this post as some sort've allegation of Florida...
I'm not saying that the Spread Option is a gimmick offense. It's no more a gimmick offense or "fad" than the wishbone was for, oh...I'd say...what....20 or 30 years?
You compete for Championships by inserting players into the Spread Option like Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Percy Harvin, Rainey, Demps, Bradford, McLain, Daniels, Harrell, Crabtree, etc...
But, the Spread can also win games for the same Texas Tech team running it with a guy named Kliff Kingsbury at quarterback. It can help ease the pain of having an 18 year old like Pat White at quarterback...
It can do many things to neutralize a personnel shortcoming at almost any area, or experience, as well, since the fundamentals of the offense are taught religiously at high schools all across America. Especially in talent rich and talent plentiful Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, & Florida.
You have no perspective from which to make the statement "If so then, wouldn't there be more successful teams [?]."
Utah & Bowling Green-under Meyer-as well as Florida now, not to mention teams like West Virginia, Texas Tech, Hawaii, Missouri, Kansas and the like have been excelling using Spread Shotgun offensive sets for a long time.
The fundamentals of that offense have allowed teams like such nontraditional powers as Hawaii, Utah, & Kansas to BCS Bowl Games while still operating at a talent and depth disadvantage.
Hawaii had guys like Colt Brennan, and Timmy Chang before him, dominate at the collegiate level and bring their teams to levels never before seen by their programs.
Texas Tech has been winning football games in the Big XII since Leach brought the Spread from OU as the Sooner OC back in the 1999 (Or was it 2000 when he took over in Lubbock? I forget)...They have NOT had Michael Crabtree's the entire time...
Pretty simple...Name me five current or former NFL players that Texas Tech's put into the league since Leach came?
Name me five current or former NFL players Utah has in the league-OTHER than Alex Smith, of course?
Name me five current or former NFL players Hawaii has in the league?
The Spread set-like any else-requires a good decision maker at quarterback, and SPEED on the edges, but it does not require 6-2, 220 pound Dwayne Bowe at WR, and teams can win running it with Todd Reesing, or Tim Tebow...
The point is that you can WIN with the Spread set, whether using the Spread Option or even the Spread Shotgun of the Mizzou/Texas Tech flavor, as well...
You compete for championships with players the caliber of Graham Harrell, Michael Crabtree, Tim Tebow, Percy Harvin, Demps, Rainey, Moody, Bradford, etc...
You can win football games in BCS conferece schools without them, and the empirical data supports me on this, 100%...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
It's a highschool offense man. Running it is easy with success however Urban has massive talent too which allows for some hefty domination. Easy to recruit people for Urban's offense hence his success at every level of FBS football. This doesn't mean he recruits crap, just means he would have pretty moderate success with trash. It's an equalizer type offense. That is all Miss State needs 6+ wins a year. I don't honestly think they expect to go to the SEC championship more than once a decade or so like Arkansas :P.
No one is saying he isn't recruiting so don't take it personally, it's just gimmiky offense that is simple pimple. I'm thinking you WILL see more teams running it soon now that it has been proven to work. I think there is still some evolution going on at the momment.
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
I think its simple on a fundamental level, but it has been out of vogue for so long, its something that a lot of teams go away from in terms of their defensive preparation once they get to this level.
Having said that, the method in which most teams are utilizing the Spread Option variant of these formations is VERY MUCH complex. The Sprint Read play that Tim Tebow & Pat White run are killer's for a 5* Defensive End who dreams of a lifetime of sack dances on Sunday's on either Fox or CBS...
Responsibility football is a lost art on the defensive side of the football in the modern Era, and the Spread's fundamental requirement of a defense in order to stop it is to play disciplined, smart, sound, RESPONSIBILITY FOOTBALL. With today's fast, aggressive, swarming defenses, it requires discipline in space, and that is not something that a lot of defenses in FBS excel at.
I think we agree that he took that as a personal shot...But, I think we disagree as to just how much the offensive fundamentals of option-based football have changed in terms of their innovation and implementation on the offensive side of the football.
You're right in that it is easy to recruit, and execute...It's the positions they're put in to operate the simplistic fundamentals that put so much pressure on modern defenses.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Well I was probably being a tad contrary because it's florida. As another school that has to face Urban every year I'm sure you are fed up but at least you won some.
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
I dislike any opponent who beats us on the field. I also have some issues with Urban over his laughable discipline standards.
But, their offense is pretty darned dynamic. I think it works, and it will continue to work...Folks that think the Spread Option is a fad need to wake up.
The Wishbone was not a damn fad. Now, did the Wishbone dominate in the NFL? Of course not...But, that doesn't mean that teams like Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, and other traditional powers didn't just skulldrag people for the better part of two-and-a-half decades using it.
When you can recruit players like a Harvin & Tebow to operate that offense, and you have guys like Meyer (who will lie through his teeth) doing the recruiting, and a evil genius like Mullen coaching and orchestrating the offense, then its deadly competitive.
Having said that, we beat Mr. Heisman straight up, and we put up 21 points on their defense, at home, with garbage at quarterback. With ZERO defense.
A lot of folks don't realize that we ended the first half with a touchdown drive, and started the 2nd half off with a touchdown drive, as well. I believe both of said drives were with our backup, backup, backup, in Andrew Hatch. Literally, our 3rd string quarterback coming out of Spring Practice.
But, the floodgates opened after that, and it was there that our defensive coordinators proved to be the alpha & the omega in terms of the definition of why we finished with 5 losses this year.
But, I'm digressing...
I'm still of the opinion that-against an SEC schedule-you simply cannot run a Spread Option offense of the kind that Florida & West Virginia employ and not have quarterback issues. This year Tebow has finally found a running game, and it shows. The lack of wear and tear on him as a player is obvious. The lack of production may be down, but their overall team success-brought about in no small part because of the balance the offense has found with its rushing attack having discovered consistent threats-has increased greatly.
Long-term, though, you are not going to find a War Daddy the likes of Tim Tebow every four years. It's just not going to happen. If you can't limit the exposure to hits that your quarterback takes, you aren't going to succeed.
Pat White suffered through injuries in both his sophomore & junior years as a Mountaineer, and it limited the offense's performance.
Same goes for Tebow in 2007. While he had a Heisman caliber performance in 2007, the bottom line is that he got hurt by a Tremaine Johnson drilling he took in the LSU game on an option pitch, and he was banged up again the next week against Kentucky on his shoulder. He was hobbled against Georgia, and without a threat on offense other than Harvin, they got exposed as being a one-dimensional team on that side of the ball.
If it can happen to a guy like Tim Tebow-whose as close to a human personification of an 800 pound gorilla with a chainsaw for a penis playing the quarterback position-then it can happen to anyone.
Because the offense asks so much out of the QB, and in the Gator/Mountaineer variant, it will always look for the QB to be the 2nd leading rusher on offense most of the time, then it will always be exposing the quarterback-and, by extension, the entire offense-to a huge risk by running kids who man that spot at the teeth of an SEC Defense, game-after-game...
It can be competitive, but the downside is injury, especially of the nagging variety, which can influence the QB's mental decision making (Should I keep this and take another pulverizing hit from the End, or pitch it and avoid the pain-and maybe take a 5 yard loss?), as well as disrupt the entire offense if the QB goes down to injury...
Just my $0.02...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Need to get our guys saying that on the recruiting trail! "Look you don't want your baby playing for Urban he will get hurt", make a nice replay reel of bashings!
Mr2Bits
· 11 months ago
A lot of folks don't realize that we ended the first half with a touchdown drive,.
I realize this. I also realize that this was the drive where your player stepped out of bounds on the kick-off only to get a free-bee at the 40
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
He fielded it with one foot out of bounds...and even then, it would've been up to a referees interpretation on whether or not the kick carried him to field the ball out of bounds like that...In other words, it would've still been a penalty on the kicker, just interpreted with a different rule...
Also...we scored a touchdown...there's nothing to say that we would've gotten one or two more 1st downs, just as there's nothing to say that we might've stalled out...It happened the way it happened, and there's no undoing that drive, nor the final score.
TampaGator
· 11 months ago
TE:
You're partially correct in you anaylsis of the spread O--it generally is desiged as an "equalizer" of sorts, to make teams with lesser talent competitive with the more talented teams. The theory is essentially to avoid confrontation (since you supposedly can't win in confrontation) by getting the ball to where they ain't--i.e.--open spaces.
You miss the boat somewhat, in your application of the spread O in the SEC. "Waterbugs" would NOT have success in the SEC (and certainly not in the NFL, for that matter). UF's offense struggled in '05, and was even sub-par in the '06 NC campaign. Why? Because you don't just need quick guys to succeed with the spread O in the SEC; you need a decisive speed ADVANTAGE--you can't just be as fast as a SEC defense; you have to be decisively FASTER.
Ergo Mullen will probably not enjoy much success at MSU, because I doubt very seriously that he will be able to recruit the kind of speed he needs to make the spread O work in the SEC--not at Miss State.
As for Meyer "...lying through his teeth": I thought we'd been through this before. The allegations against Meyer on the recruiting trail are dubious at best, and the sources are questoinable to say the least--motivated by envy, spite, self-preservation, self-interest....
For e.g.--you, as an LSU Fan, feel jilted because UF's coaches said "...LSU's academics aren't all that...." (they're not--certainly in comparison to UF's), and LSU not qualifiying its players--when LSU took player that was weeded out by UF for academic impropriety. LSU Fan therefore resorting to mud-slinging against Meyer = envy, spite, self-preservation, self-interest....
GO GATORS!!
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
We've been through it before, and you never refuted it, you simply restated the argument in your own terms to answer your own way, in order to dispel it.
It's called the 2nd & 3rd steps in the 4 steps to overcoming objections...a tried and true practice within the art of selling...
Restating the objection in your own words (2nd step), in order to question and respond to the objection on your own terms (3rd step)...
Perhaps you weren't even aware that's what you're doing...
At any rate...Terrance Tolliver's spoken at length about what Meyer told him regarding LSU. Patrick Peterson did qualify, and would've qualified to enroll early, but for an infamous flagging that FLORIDA turned in, infamously AFTER Patrick Peterson committed to LSU and made his intentions clear.
The difference is that Patrick was told your Clearinghouse people would usher him right into school, no questions asked, as long as he got the score and committed to UF.
Patrick got the score, committed to LSU, and Florida's people then VERY COINCIDENTALLY flagged it...It's ironic that you mention jilted when talking about this kid, since HE jilted YOU, and not the other way around.
It's also YOUR program that flagged his score, and NOT anyone else...Do you think you guys were the only other ones recruiting him? Hmmm...
Also...Terrance Tolliver hosts almost all of our recruits we line up against Meyer now for, because he gives them a GREAT insight as to just what Meyer will say. You've never refuted what Terrance's teacher and guidance counselor came here to find out on his behalf...They told no one they represented his interests, and came anonymously to ask the questions of the academic center, tutoring, college of A&S and the Junior Division...
It turns out Terrance was lied to by a certain Florida Head Coach...But, I'm sure since you LOST OUT ON THE KID, it's us that feel jilted and envious, and we're just making it up to console ourselves because...he actually signed with us?
(That makes a lot of sense, huh?)
Also...Jevan Snead and the Tim Tebow recruitment? Are you HONESTLY going to tell me that didn't happen? That's hilarious, if so...
I could talk about the kid who Urban Meyer brazenly violated NCAA violations by calling and then putting Tim Tebow on the phone with (I'm sure USA Today made a mistake, and didn't see & hear both Meyer & Tebow on the phone with him...Suuuuuuuuuure.) him after he won the Heisman...
I could also talk about Florida putting his girlfriend on scholarship, but you've got a daisy chain of logic for that one, too...
No, all of these examples are not consistent patterns of a guy who will lie in order to sign our recruits, our commitments, as well as his own...These are a fantastic, dreamed up, conjured set of coincidences that each have their own very logical, completely understandable reasonings for why each took place...given the proper context...
I'm sure you don't realize that I'm not the only guy LOL listening to the rationalizations, too?
But, turning away from all of that...MSU can't win with its current offense...Mullen against the likes of Vandy, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and other lower tier SEC teams could very much become competitive and start putting together winning seasons.
Nobody's saying that Mullen's going to compete for a national, a conference, or even a Western Division Championship. No, what they're saying is that Dan Mullen can field an above .500 football team in Mississippi State. What they're saying is that Dan Mullen can put an exciting, fun product on the field that creates interest and helps both recruiting and to bolster the fanbase to support the program at State...
TampaGator
· 11 months ago
No, TE--you've got it all wrong.
The only LIE you can attribute to Meyer, is the Jevon Snead episode--a disputed characterization of facts. That's it.
Tolliver's own characterization: UF coaches said LSU's academics aren't all that. Where's the LIE in that? LSU doesn't qualify its players--in the wake of the Patrick deal, where his test scores soared, after two miserable failures. Where's the LIE in that? No lies; just plain, painful TRUTH.
As for the calls to the recruit--a minor recruiting violation at best, and once again, where is the LIE in that? No lie; just aggressive (perhaps overly aggresive) pursuit of a recruit---notwithstanding the fact that the had already committed (verbally) to UF, long before. UF was his first choice from the beginning. And regarding his girlfriend--once again, forget spin--let's say he "brazenly" disregarded recruiting restrictions (which I dispute, but for the sake of argument...)--where the LIE in that? In your most generous interpretation of that event, he told the girl to apply to UF for v'ball scholly, and she did. Where's the LIE????? Again, none.
But by all means, keep slinging the mud--it makes the once great LSU look pathetic in recruiting circles. Meyer (and perhaps even Saban, for that matter) will surely take advantage of LSU's constant whining.
Re. Mullen--OK, if we're defining success as .500 ball, I won't argue with that. More power to him. But even the spread is painful to watch, when it gets shut down; and against AU, LSU, UA, Ole Miss...it won't work, without SUPERIOR speed.
GO GATORS!!
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
Here's the funny part...
Tolliver says that Meyer LIED TO HIM about what he told him. Then, his guidance cousenlor and another fellow teacher went-on their own dime-to help him figure out THE TRUTH.
THEY said he lied...Not me...The LIE is in what he told Tolliver. No matter how you spin or distort it, he lied to the kid about LSU's academics...
As for Jevan Snead...Texas, LSU, Ole Miss, Jevan Snead...They all say the same thing...
You dispute it...
You're from Florida...I think we know what happened...But, don't let that get in the way of the point...LOL...
As for the "once great" LSU, we're ranked #1 in recruiting this year, and we still have one 5* that everyone and their brother knows is ours but most services won't announce him as official because he's decommitted from both Clemson & Texas A&M...
Which means that, we'll end the year-if we sign Rueben Randle-with SIX (6) Five-Star Players, along with the #1 player in America as per Rivals (Rueben Randle) and the #1 player in America as per Scout (Russell Shepard)...
REALLY sounds like we're in a tailspin...LOL...
TampaGator
· 11 months ago
A'ight....I didn't say LSU was in a tailspin--but, I'll concede the point--LSU's recruiting is doing fine (though I'll maintain that its "greatness" might be a thing of the past, based on recent....how shall we say this....trending).
As for Tolliver--lied about what? What am I missing here? Tolliver's quotes, as best as I could ascertain, were that the ASSISTANT coaches said about LSU's academics:
"...LSU's academics aren't all that..." and
"...LSU doesn't qualify its players...".
Again, where's the LIE???
...and once agian, rather than reiterating 15x that this doucebag or that db said that Meyer lied, how about telling us exactly what lie or lies he said, with relation to Toliver: That means--
1. This is what he (meyer) said;
2. This is the truth of the matter;
3. Here's what meyer knew at the time he uttered the"lie" (i.e.--how we know it's a lie), that shows the it was a lie, and not some kind of inadvertant misrepresentation, a characterization, statement of opinion, or what have you.
It ain't rocket science, TE, but "...[x] said Meyer lied..." doesn't cut it.
GO GATORS!!
devil_dog
· 11 months ago
TG surely you're not including Ole Miss in the elite ....Man they had a good year ...WOW ! Remember State had a decent year last year too, but as you see 1 yr later. Don't worry about Mullen not being able to recruit at State. Mississippi has more 4 & 5 star players per capita than any other state its just that they are lost to some of the surrounding bigger schools. But all it takes is a guy who knows how to keep them in state to win.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
I think, TampaGator, that you have a different Idea of success in the SEC. Miss State, as I said earlier, would probably be happy with 6-7 wins, even if that meant going 2-6 or 3-5 in the SEC. I don't think the SEC is as deep as people suggest either. Yes the top is nice but the bottom isn't that hot. Yes the bottom rises up occasionally but they stay the bottom in the long run. They don't need the success seen at other schools because the fans don't expect it. A lot of schools would be happy with winning seasons or at least a 6-6 run that got a bowl and any SEC team that hits 6-6 will still get a bowl.
Mullen can recruit 2-3 star talent or at least talent that beats Wake Forest which has been tearing up the bottom of the SEC for several years on some pretty junk talent (including Ole Miss this year).
TampaGator
· 11 months ago
I get y'all's point about Miss St. being ok with 6-7 wins per year; I'll defer to Bulldog Fan on that matter. My point is simply that if you can't recruit superior speed, the spread will not work against SEC defenses. UF couldn't make it work with 4-5 star recruits, UNTIL we started getting ridiculous speed.
So MSU is going to make it work with 2-3 star recruits?
Not against the top half of the SEC D's. That's all I'm saying.
GO GATORS!!
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
I agree with you completely here...
But, MSU's goal right now is to go to a bowl game, year in and year out. You can accomplish that without competing against the Top half of the SEC's defenses.
If you can go 3-5 or 4-4 consistently in this conference, with the rare 5-3 and once every for years possibly 6-2 season if you get a special player, and you're at Mississippi State, you're going to have a winning record-at least-every single year.
That is their goal at this point. I think that Mullen can accomplish that. That's why I like the hire.
TampaGator
· 11 months ago
Solid.
I'll just get on with shamelessly mid-lifing to AC/DC and Bob Seger, while jones'n for CFB this weekend
(...helps with the w/drawl symptoms....).
Catch y'all on the flip.
GO GATORS!!
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
Bob Seger & AC/DC? That's midlifing?
I dunno...I'm going to address this response down below, since this thread is about as wide as your local fishwrap's columns...
But, interesting...
Zac
· 11 months ago
FYI: Pat White's 22. He'll be 23 in February. Thought you'd like to konw.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Couple FCS playoff games today might be over already not sure.
USC1801
· 11 months ago
Heeeeeeeeeeeere's Danny!
If he can improve on Croom's foundation, good for him. But as it's been noted, he'll need to be able to recruit. I don't buy into the theory that Mississippi can emerge as a contender in the SEC without quality players. Case in point: Florida whooped USC's tail this year because of the overall speed and quality of athletes they've been able to recruit. You don't move up in this conference without solid 4star recruits at the key positions.
Good luck, Karnac the Magnificent! You'll need it.
USC1801
· 11 months ago
Okay, so some of you are too young to know who Karnac is . . .my apology:
If they give this kid the same chance they gave Croom, and if he can bring in the right staff to shore up the defense AND recruit the right players, he'll have these dawgs scratching at the door to the upper tier of the SEC West in about 3 or 4 years. Remember; you heard it here 1st.
Porcine
· 11 months ago
Keeping the current class together would be a good omen.
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
Have you guys seen that report about Muschamp being named the Auburn head coach tomorrow? WOW!
Porcine
· 11 months ago
Heard it was a good possibility.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Auburn was all over those "Head Coach's in Waiting" Took that personally I guess.
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
So, TG...Since when has Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band & AC/DC been midlife crises-coping medicine?
I mean, if you ask me...I'd consider you far and away more lamer-and possibly more mid-lifing-had you brought up that you were going to listen to some Air Supply on the way home...Or Foreigner...
But...AC/DC will NEVER be confused with anyone mid-lifing it...
All Comments
competion for everybody else.
Good luck to MS and Dan Mullen.
We'll miss him, but for now, we'll probably just promote Tim Tebow to OC!
...in the interim, anyway....
GO GATORS!!
This hire is no surprise to me at all. A few years ago when everyone was switching their defenses to the Tampa-2, any coach with experience was getting opportunities thrust at them. Now, the spread option is the offense du jour. Heck, the rumor around Orlando today is that Charlie Strong will be the next HC at UCF.
Good luck to Mullen and Miss State, though I really wish he wasn't going to an SEC school.
UF will be fine but I think Miss State may keep him heel deep if 2-3 years doesn't turn.
Oh and I had Charlie looking to go to Auburn but thats just my opinion.
...WEST.
GO GATORS!!
The Spread Option can be manned by waterbugs, and inferior talent on the lines, as well...The splits they get on the line, and the skill positions don't have to be prototypical sized players, either.
You can rely on inferior size/weight/heights, because the scheme is designed to get a speedy skill position in player in space against the defender...From there, it doesn't matter if the kid's 5'-9", 175...If he can make a man miss, they'll move the chains.
Also, you've got the guy whose tutored Alex Smith (#1 overall NFL Draft Pick), Chris Leak (National Champion), and Tim Tebow (National Champion, Heisman Winner, gunning for a shot at a 2nd championship)...
He will find a quarterback, and he will find speed.
Believe it or not, Mississippi, along with the Community & Junior College ranks to be found in that state-which draw from all over the South and churn out talent regularly to all SEC programs-will produce more than enough skill position speed for Mullen to be able to utilize the offense.
Now, I'll be honest in that Meyer had to scale back his plans his first year at Florida due to Leak was ill-at-ease with all the facets of Urban's offense. But, after year one, and year two, my guess is that Mullen will field a competitive team.
I think its an excellent hire on Mississippi State's part...and Mullen will succeed...He's been productive as a playcaller, as well as a developer of talent at his position, at every stop along his coaching career's route.
I'm not saying that the Spread Option is a gimmick offense. It's no more a gimmick offense or "fad" than the wishbone was for, oh...I'd say...what....20 or 30 years?
You compete for Championships by inserting players into the Spread Option like Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Percy Harvin, Rainey, Demps, Bradford, McLain, Daniels, Harrell, Crabtree, etc...
But, the Spread can also win games for the same Texas Tech team running it with a guy named Kliff Kingsbury at quarterback. It can help ease the pain of having an 18 year old like Pat White at quarterback...
It can do many things to neutralize a personnel shortcoming at almost any area, or experience, as well, since the fundamentals of the offense are taught religiously at high schools all across America. Especially in talent rich and talent plentiful Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, & Florida.
You have no perspective from which to make the statement "If so then, wouldn't there be more successful teams [?]."
Utah & Bowling Green-under Meyer-as well as Florida now, not to mention teams like West Virginia, Texas Tech, Hawaii, Missouri, Kansas and the like have been excelling using Spread Shotgun offensive sets for a long time.
The fundamentals of that offense have allowed teams like such nontraditional powers as Hawaii, Utah, & Kansas to BCS Bowl Games while still operating at a talent and depth disadvantage.
Hawaii had guys like Colt Brennan, and Timmy Chang before him, dominate at the collegiate level and bring their teams to levels never before seen by their programs.
Texas Tech has been winning football games in the Big XII since Leach brought the Spread from OU as the Sooner OC back in the 1999 (Or was it 2000 when he took over in Lubbock? I forget)...They have NOT had Michael Crabtree's the entire time...
Pretty simple...Name me five current or former NFL players that Texas Tech's put into the league since Leach came?
Name me five current or former NFL players Utah has in the league-OTHER than Alex Smith, of course?
Name me five current or former NFL players Hawaii has in the league?
The Spread set-like any else-requires a good decision maker at quarterback, and SPEED on the edges, but it does not require 6-2, 220 pound Dwayne Bowe at WR, and teams can win running it with Todd Reesing, or Tim Tebow...
The point is that you can WIN with the Spread set, whether using the Spread Option or even the Spread Shotgun of the Mizzou/Texas Tech flavor, as well...
You compete for championships with players the caliber of Graham Harrell, Michael Crabtree, Tim Tebow, Percy Harvin, Demps, Rainey, Moody, Bradford, etc...
You can win football games in BCS conferece schools without them, and the empirical data supports me on this, 100%...
No one is saying he isn't recruiting so don't take it personally, it's just gimmiky offense that is simple pimple. I'm thinking you WILL see more teams running it soon now that it has been proven to work. I think there is still some evolution going on at the momment.
Having said that, the method in which most teams are utilizing the Spread Option variant of these formations is VERY MUCH complex. The Sprint Read play that Tim Tebow & Pat White run are killer's for a 5* Defensive End who dreams of a lifetime of sack dances on Sunday's on either Fox or CBS...
Responsibility football is a lost art on the defensive side of the football in the modern Era, and the Spread's fundamental requirement of a defense in order to stop it is to play disciplined, smart, sound, RESPONSIBILITY FOOTBALL. With today's fast, aggressive, swarming defenses, it requires discipline in space, and that is not something that a lot of defenses in FBS excel at.
I think we agree that he took that as a personal shot...But, I think we disagree as to just how much the offensive fundamentals of option-based football have changed in terms of their innovation and implementation on the offensive side of the football.
You're right in that it is easy to recruit, and execute...It's the positions they're put in to operate the simplistic fundamentals that put so much pressure on modern defenses.
But, their offense is pretty darned dynamic. I think it works, and it will continue to work...Folks that think the Spread Option is a fad need to wake up.
The Wishbone was not a damn fad. Now, did the Wishbone dominate in the NFL? Of course not...But, that doesn't mean that teams like Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, and other traditional powers didn't just skulldrag people for the better part of two-and-a-half decades using it.
When you can recruit players like a Harvin & Tebow to operate that offense, and you have guys like Meyer (who will lie through his teeth) doing the recruiting, and a evil genius like Mullen coaching and orchestrating the offense, then its deadly competitive.
Having said that, we beat Mr. Heisman straight up, and we put up 21 points on their defense, at home, with garbage at quarterback. With ZERO defense.
A lot of folks don't realize that we ended the first half with a touchdown drive, and started the 2nd half off with a touchdown drive, as well. I believe both of said drives were with our backup, backup, backup, in Andrew Hatch. Literally, our 3rd string quarterback coming out of Spring Practice.
But, the floodgates opened after that, and it was there that our defensive coordinators proved to be the alpha & the omega in terms of the definition of why we finished with 5 losses this year.
But, I'm digressing...
I'm still of the opinion that-against an SEC schedule-you simply cannot run a Spread Option offense of the kind that Florida & West Virginia employ and not have quarterback issues. This year Tebow has finally found a running game, and it shows. The lack of wear and tear on him as a player is obvious. The lack of production may be down, but their overall team success-brought about in no small part because of the balance the offense has found with its rushing attack having discovered consistent threats-has increased greatly.
Long-term, though, you are not going to find a War Daddy the likes of Tim Tebow every four years. It's just not going to happen. If you can't limit the exposure to hits that your quarterback takes, you aren't going to succeed.
Pat White suffered through injuries in both his sophomore & junior years as a Mountaineer, and it limited the offense's performance.
Same goes for Tebow in 2007. While he had a Heisman caliber performance in 2007, the bottom line is that he got hurt by a Tremaine Johnson drilling he took in the LSU game on an option pitch, and he was banged up again the next week against Kentucky on his shoulder. He was hobbled against Georgia, and without a threat on offense other than Harvin, they got exposed as being a one-dimensional team on that side of the ball.
If it can happen to a guy like Tim Tebow-whose as close to a human personification of an 800 pound gorilla with a chainsaw for a penis playing the quarterback position-then it can happen to anyone.
Because the offense asks so much out of the QB, and in the Gator/Mountaineer variant, it will always look for the QB to be the 2nd leading rusher on offense most of the time, then it will always be exposing the quarterback-and, by extension, the entire offense-to a huge risk by running kids who man that spot at the teeth of an SEC Defense, game-after-game...
It can be competitive, but the downside is injury, especially of the nagging variety, which can influence the QB's mental decision making (Should I keep this and take another pulverizing hit from the End, or pitch it and avoid the pain-and maybe take a 5 yard loss?), as well as disrupt the entire offense if the QB goes down to injury...
Just my $0.02...
I realize this. I also realize that this was the drive where your player stepped out of bounds on the kick-off only to get a free-bee at the 40
Also...we scored a touchdown...there's nothing to say that we would've gotten one or two more 1st downs, just as there's nothing to say that we might've stalled out...It happened the way it happened, and there's no undoing that drive, nor the final score.
You're partially correct in you anaylsis of the spread O--it generally is desiged as an "equalizer" of sorts, to make teams with lesser talent competitive with the more talented teams. The theory is essentially to avoid confrontation (since you supposedly can't win in confrontation) by getting the ball to where they ain't--i.e.--open spaces.
You miss the boat somewhat, in your application of the spread O in the SEC. "Waterbugs" would NOT have success in the SEC (and certainly not in the NFL, for that matter). UF's offense struggled in '05, and was even sub-par in the '06 NC campaign. Why? Because you don't just need quick guys to succeed with the spread O in the SEC; you need a decisive speed ADVANTAGE--you can't just be as fast as a SEC defense; you have to be decisively FASTER.
Ergo Mullen will probably not enjoy much success at MSU, because I doubt very seriously that he will be able to recruit the kind of speed he needs to make the spread O work in the SEC--not at Miss State.
As for Meyer "...lying through his teeth": I thought we'd been through this before. The allegations against Meyer on the recruiting trail are dubious at best, and the sources are questoinable to say the least--motivated by envy, spite, self-preservation, self-interest....
For e.g.--you, as an LSU Fan, feel jilted because UF's coaches said "...LSU's academics aren't all that...." (they're not--certainly in comparison to UF's), and LSU not qualifiying its players--when LSU took player that was weeded out by UF for academic impropriety. LSU Fan therefore resorting to mud-slinging against Meyer = envy, spite, self-preservation, self-interest....
GO GATORS!!
It's called the 2nd & 3rd steps in the 4 steps to overcoming objections...a tried and true practice within the art of selling...
Restating the objection in your own words (2nd step), in order to question and respond to the objection on your own terms (3rd step)...
Perhaps you weren't even aware that's what you're doing...
At any rate...Terrance Tolliver's spoken at length about what Meyer told him regarding LSU. Patrick Peterson did qualify, and would've qualified to enroll early, but for an infamous flagging that FLORIDA turned in, infamously AFTER Patrick Peterson committed to LSU and made his intentions clear.
The difference is that Patrick was told your Clearinghouse people would usher him right into school, no questions asked, as long as he got the score and committed to UF.
Patrick got the score, committed to LSU, and Florida's people then VERY COINCIDENTALLY flagged it...It's ironic that you mention jilted when talking about this kid, since HE jilted YOU, and not the other way around.
It's also YOUR program that flagged his score, and NOT anyone else...Do you think you guys were the only other ones recruiting him? Hmmm...
Also...Terrance Tolliver hosts almost all of our recruits we line up against Meyer now for, because he gives them a GREAT insight as to just what Meyer will say. You've never refuted what Terrance's teacher and guidance counselor came here to find out on his behalf...They told no one they represented his interests, and came anonymously to ask the questions of the academic center, tutoring, college of A&S and the Junior Division...
It turns out Terrance was lied to by a certain Florida Head Coach...But, I'm sure since you LOST OUT ON THE KID, it's us that feel jilted and envious, and we're just making it up to console ourselves because...he actually signed with us?
(That makes a lot of sense, huh?)
Also...Jevan Snead and the Tim Tebow recruitment? Are you HONESTLY going to tell me that didn't happen? That's hilarious, if so...
I could talk about the kid who Urban Meyer brazenly violated NCAA violations by calling and then putting Tim Tebow on the phone with (I'm sure USA Today made a mistake, and didn't see & hear both Meyer & Tebow on the phone with him...Suuuuuuuuuure.) him after he won the Heisman...
I could also talk about Florida putting his girlfriend on scholarship, but you've got a daisy chain of logic for that one, too...
No, all of these examples are not consistent patterns of a guy who will lie in order to sign our recruits, our commitments, as well as his own...These are a fantastic, dreamed up, conjured set of coincidences that each have their own very logical, completely understandable reasonings for why each took place...given the proper context...
I'm sure you don't realize that I'm not the only guy LOL listening to the rationalizations, too?
But, turning away from all of that...MSU can't win with its current offense...Mullen against the likes of Vandy, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and other lower tier SEC teams could very much become competitive and start putting together winning seasons.
Nobody's saying that Mullen's going to compete for a national, a conference, or even a Western Division Championship. No, what they're saying is that Dan Mullen can field an above .500 football team in Mississippi State. What they're saying is that Dan Mullen can put an exciting, fun product on the field that creates interest and helps both recruiting and to bolster the fanbase to support the program at State...
The only LIE you can attribute to Meyer, is the Jevon Snead episode--a disputed characterization of facts.
That's it.
Tolliver's own characterization: UF coaches said LSU's academics aren't all that. Where's the LIE in that? LSU doesn't qualify its players--in the wake of the Patrick deal, where his test scores soared, after two miserable failures. Where's the LIE in that? No lies; just plain, painful TRUTH.
As for the calls to the recruit--a minor recruiting violation at best, and once again, where is the LIE in that? No lie; just aggressive (perhaps overly aggresive) pursuit of a recruit---notwithstanding the fact that the had already committed (verbally) to UF, long before. UF was his first choice from the beginning. And regarding his girlfriend--once again, forget spin--let's say he "brazenly" disregarded recruiting restrictions (which I dispute, but for the sake of argument...)--where the LIE in that? In your most generous interpretation of that event, he told the girl to apply to UF for v'ball scholly, and she did. Where's the LIE????? Again, none.
But by all means, keep slinging the mud--it makes the once great LSU look pathetic in recruiting circles. Meyer (and perhaps even Saban, for that matter) will surely take advantage of LSU's constant whining.
Re. Mullen--OK, if we're defining success as .500 ball, I won't argue with that. More power to him. But even the spread is painful to watch, when it gets shut down; and against AU, LSU, UA, Ole Miss...it won't work, without SUPERIOR speed.
GO GATORS!!
Tolliver says that Meyer LIED TO HIM about what he told him. Then, his guidance cousenlor and another fellow teacher went-on their own dime-to help him figure out THE TRUTH.
THEY said he lied...Not me...The LIE is in what he told Tolliver. No matter how you spin or distort it, he lied to the kid about LSU's academics...
As for Jevan Snead...Texas, LSU, Ole Miss, Jevan Snead...They all say the same thing...
You dispute it...
You're from Florida...I think we know what happened...But, don't let that get in the way of the point...LOL...
As for the "once great" LSU, we're ranked #1 in recruiting this year, and we still have one 5* that everyone and their brother knows is ours but most services won't announce him as official because he's decommitted from both Clemson & Texas A&M...
Which means that, we'll end the year-if we sign Rueben Randle-with SIX (6) Five-Star Players, along with the #1 player in America as per Rivals (Rueben Randle) and the #1 player in America as per Scout (Russell Shepard)...
REALLY sounds like we're in a tailspin...LOL...
As for Tolliver--lied about what? What am I missing here? Tolliver's quotes, as best as I could ascertain, were that the ASSISTANT coaches said about LSU's academics:
"...LSU's academics aren't all that..." and
"...LSU doesn't qualify its players...".
Again, where's the LIE???
...and once agian, rather than reiterating 15x that this doucebag or that db said that Meyer lied, how about telling us exactly what lie or lies he said, with relation to Toliver: That means--
1. This is what he (meyer) said;
2. This is the truth of the matter;
3. Here's what meyer knew at the time he uttered the"lie" (i.e.--how we know it's a lie), that shows the it was a lie, and not some kind of inadvertant misrepresentation, a characterization, statement of opinion, or what have you.
It ain't rocket science, TE, but "...[x] said Meyer lied..." doesn't cut it.
GO GATORS!!
Mullen can recruit 2-3 star talent or at least talent that beats Wake Forest which has been tearing up the bottom of the SEC for several years on some pretty junk talent (including Ole Miss this year).
So MSU is going to make it work with 2-3 star recruits?
Not against the top half of the SEC D's. That's all I'm saying.
GO GATORS!!
But, MSU's goal right now is to go to a bowl game, year in and year out. You can accomplish that without competing against the Top half of the SEC's defenses.
If you can go 3-5 or 4-4 consistently in this conference, with the rare 5-3 and once every for years possibly 6-2 season if you get a special player, and you're at Mississippi State, you're going to have a winning record-at least-every single year.
That is their goal at this point. I think that Mullen can accomplish that. That's why I like the hire.
I'll just get on with shamelessly mid-lifing to AC/DC and Bob Seger, while jones'n for CFB this weekend
(...helps with the w/drawl symptoms....).
Catch y'all on the flip.
GO GATORS!!
I dunno...I'm going to address this response down below, since this thread is about as wide as your local fishwrap's columns...
But, interesting...
If he can improve on Croom's foundation, good for him. But as it's been noted, he'll need to be able to recruit. I don't buy into the theory that Mississippi can emerge as a contender in the SEC without quality players. Case in point: Florida whooped USC's tail this year because of the overall speed and quality of athletes they've been able to recruit. You don't move up in this conference without solid 4star recruits at the key positions.
Good luck, Karnac the Magnificent! You'll need it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnwyQFe3wRA
I mean, if you ask me...I'd consider you far and away more lamer-and possibly more mid-lifing-had you brought up that you were going to listen to some Air Supply on the way home...Or Foreigner...
But...AC/DC will NEVER be confused with anyone mid-lifing it...
AC/DC, in a word...ROCK...