Fanblogs.com: Miami-FSU returning to Labor Day Weekend?
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
One question...
Why?
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
That's a really damn good question. From UM-FSU's perspective, it can only be about the money. There's really no other useful reason for an in-conference rivalry game to start the season. As both schools have realized (FSU more often than Miami), playing a rival in the opener is a great way to start the year off with a loss. The only upside is money... and a little national TV prestige, I guess.
From ESPN's perspective, this could be a good move. Both FSU and Miami hinted at signs of life this season. While no one is going to call FSU-UM the "game of the century" for several seasons to come, there's a glimmer that something is happening in Tally & Miami. Lock down the Canes & Noles for another 4 years or so and you might get a couple of decent ratings games. Add the intrigue that one of those games is going to be FSU's first without bowden in 30+ years and you've got a little intrigue.
I'm sure ESPN would rather have the UF-Charleston Southern game as the weekend's marquee matchup... but I suspect the price would be too high. :-)
berkmar58
· 11 months ago
It would be stupid to play that game at the beginning of the season. I think that they should continue to play creampuffs in the first couple games and play that game towards the end so that they have the time to work the problems out of there offenses, because lord knows those two teams always have problems with there offenses. And that way it would be a better game.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
LMAO...
UF-CSU game would probably attract higher ratings (rolls eyes)...
But of course, UF doesn't need gimmicky made for tv package deals to sell out their stadium and attract big ratings...
Unlike the Noles & Canes...
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
Yeah... as best I'm aware, FSU didn't sell out a game in 2008, including UF. Not sure that more cameras are going to be the difference maker in 09 either. The only thing FSU can do for attendance is to blast Wisconsin in the bowl game and bask in the milk & honey economy that we will most certainly wake up to on 1-20-09. And <$2 gas... that'll do more for tickets at TSOW than anything.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Low attendance for both the Canes & the Noles is why I'm not so sure it's a good idea especially in the arena of recruiting where low attendance and small crowds don't help to sell the program...
Labor Day is a hard time to be able to get in-state prospects to attend the game given that most are just getting their season's rolling and they have to be back at school on the following day...
As do lots of people who would normally be attending the game, but will more than likely by pass the long drive back home after a prime time game...
Especially when neither has any expectations of ACC or MNC aspirations on the line and will be simply looking to take the next step back towards the spot light...
Why would a school want to feature the fact that it can't attract a decent crowd to a rivalry/conference game to a national audience that includess many of the kids you'll be targeting in recruiting?
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
We don't have low attendance. There are a few thousand open seats in the crapiest section. It's an 80k + stadium. The Canes have about 30k or so in a nearly 70k seat stadium, that I would consider low attendance. Not to mention playing Western Carolina and Chattanooga were probably unhelpful. I don't think next year could be better because we don't have any really good home games (unless you count Miami). I think both teams could very likely have ACC aspirations next season. Both teams only needed to win one more game to go to the Championship. That is exactly one more "step back toward the spot light". I have a feeling it will, as usual be a packed stadium (it is Doak this season) for the season opener if we play Miami, if we play the Maine Bears I'm thinking not so much.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
Did you see the FL game, Ben? 40% of the stadium was Florida fans, 40% was FSU, and 20% was empty... for our biggest rival??? I went to every home game and I road game... we definitely have an attendance problem.
You can say it's relative... we're better than Miami... but we did sell out any games this season with Wake, VT, Clemson, BC, and Florida on the docket. Even 5K empties is an attendance problem @ FSU.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
It's not necessarily the empties that would worry me...
It's the tickets that aren't sold in seemingly increasing numbers that should be of concern...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Yeah I did notice that tickets (UF-FSU) were available up to the last day although they were all singles, I am unaware of a time when this was the case in the last 20 years. Used to be hard to get a scalped set.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
There were tickets available from the ticket office the day of the game...
It was NOT a sellout...
You obviously don't pay much attention to your surroundings if you haven't noticed that the home game attendance in Tally has been declining steadily over the last four years...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
I was agreeing with you that it was not a sellout. I was saying it is indicative of some decline based on the fact that there are available tickets when normally there aren't. Perhaps I wasn't clear...
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
What's weird, Ben, is that before that game and pre-season the only UF tix available through FSU were to those purchasing FSU season ticket packages and students...
That changed about two weeks out as a few of my friends that didn't have enough points to get a FSU ticket through their UF season tix were able to aquire ones from the FSU tix office...
More tix than they would have gotten through UF...
That should never happen...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Not to FSU! Florida could sell extra tickets at many schools though especially in florida. I think @USF or @Miami for Florida would sell more tickets to UF fans. Probably UCF too but they have a small stadium in comparison to everyone else.
The loss to Wake Forest marking 8 quarters of 0 touchdowns against Wake probably doesn't help for the upcoming seasons sales either.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Wrong, Ben...
When your chief rival is comng to town, you should never have a problem selling your tickets...
UF was allotted X number of tickets from FSU for sale to their season ticket holders...
The only reason those guys were able to buy those tickets was because FSU fans simply didn't purchase their season ticket packages due to dwindling interest caused by a sub-mediocre product on the field...
Once again displaying the lack of loyalty and fickleness contained in FSU fandom...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
I hardly think that is fair. We have a much smaller fanbase than Florida and less alums. We only recently became a similar sized school. We could have as good a showing as Florida percentage wise there is just no telling!
Also do not forget the proximity to Orlando and Jacksonville favors UF significantly. Jacksonville is the closest big city to us and we are 6 miles from Georgia we aren't nearly as easy a trip for Floridians.
Since I was a kid growing up in central florida every trailer park around us raised thier kids to be Florida fans I'm sure that is a huge boon too.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
To you point, FSU is **nowhere near** the size of UF, in terms of enrollment or endowment. It's not even close. In fact, FSU is **barely** the number four school in the state in terms of undergrads, and may slip to number six very soon.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
You hardly think that's fair?
Ben; as I pointed out below to Kev; Ron Zook Field was selling out when the Noles were WINNING ten games a year...
Now that they aren't, FSU fans don't see the need to make the drive to Tally to see an inferior product on the field much less actually buy tickets....
You call that "fair weather"...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Not sure why people talk about endowment. Many massive universities have small endowments and small universities massive endowments (no puns please).
It has no bearing on football or fandom or universitiy size (excepting perhaps that some universities use football to pay for other varsity sports while some use the endowment interest).
AS to sizes I am aware of FSU being smaller than UCF, UF and USF.
I am not sure FAU or FIU (the next biggest schools I think) will dwarf FSU any time soon.
The difference used to be much larger and narrowe d in more recent years. I think both schools are looking to restrict incoming class sizes from any significant further growth.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Ben, FSU attendance average has lowered every year since the 2004 season with ZERO sellouts this season as K-Hue pointed out above...
There is a huge difference between the seats being SOLD and people not showing up versus nobody BUYING tickets at all...
Not to mention that at NO point this season did FSU's attendance numbers reach over 95 % capacity of DCS @ RZF and only reached over 90 % twice versus V-Tech (81,76) & the Gators (83,237); who happened to attract the largest crowd in Tally ALL season long largely thanks to UF FANS and even with that attendance high against UF there were still over 5000 empty seats and almost 6500 empty ones for the Hokie match-up...
The absolute low point for the year being the dismal turnout in Jax with a 60% capacity crowd of 46,716 showing up in a 77,000 seat...
Easily more than a few thousand open seats in the crappiest section...
What is more alarming and should be a cause of concern, is that Jeff's severance package was to largely come from concession sales through FSU Boosters, Inc (or whatever it's called) at DCS@RZF...
But with ever dropping attendance numbers; can they sell enough peanuts and crackerjacks to pay him off when nobody is showing up?
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
IT is a cause for concern with what amounts to a 3rd consecutive 7 win season (no bowl yet but just can't count 2 lower division teams). I see good things in the numbers over all but our distance from Florida is far too vast. I still think we improved and unless I miss my mark both Miami and Florida State will be far better next year, I think the schedule is fairly favorable too.
I admit I never hated Miami like I do Florida (many FSU fans seem to hate Miami more) so Florida being consistant when Miami and FSU are ailing just galls me. I think it all boils down to the Jorts, mullets, smuggled booze and obesity (taking up more than a paid for seat or mooing past me to get to thier seat). Second worst experience with football fans -->Florida. First worst Penn State - 2005 Orange Bowl that jerk spit on me every time he swore at his team in those gaff prone overtimes. I hate people that spit when they talk. We should do a thread on worst fans! I would love to see a poll. Maryland and Notre Dame both have very good fans on yet another tangent.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Ben, Ben, Ben...
What's wrong? No substance to back your opinion so you revert to stereotypes and bad fan claims?
FSU & Miami have no comparison to UF when it comes to selling tickets and never have...
UF wrapped up it's home schedule with it's 123rd CONSECUTIVE sell out...
A SELL-OUT crowd against the Citadel for crying out loud...
Do you realize that you can buy an FSU season ticket package for less than $300 dollars and pay no booster fee...
Meanwhile, if you want to begin buying a season ticket package at UF in 2009 your BOOSTER FEE will start at $4000 before the actual cost of the tickets is figured in...
And there is NO guarantee at that price that you wont be sitting in the back row of the North End Zone's upper deck...
Please point to where FSU will actually be any better next year?
The bulk of the defensive starters that are half way decent will be leaving...
The leading rusher at running back will be gone as will a few of the better receivers...
Fisher still hasn't necessarily found a solid starter in Ponder and De'Vo is bettering his baseball acumen each spring...
Playing this game on Labor Day is a BAD move...
But at least the TV money might make up for some of the lost concession revenue that is supposed to go to Jeff's bi-weekly severance check...
Looks to me like FSU's fans are worse and extremely fickle when it comes to supporting their squad in tough times...
At least Miami's crowd has ALWAYs been traditionally poor game attendees...
Mr2Bits
· 11 months ago
Actually, $5000 is the minimum to qualify for season tickets. Most at this level do not get them and the University still keeps the 5k and says thanks. You can be guaranteed tickets by donating $25k but you cannot lower your donor level at anytime or you lose your ticket package.
Once all the donation levels have been cleared up, you're still on the hook for the seat prices as well.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
2Bits, I don't know where you're getting your info from...
But it's incorrect...
In no way, shape, or form is the Unversity of Florida going to keep your money if you don't receive tickets...
The minimum contribution was $4200 at the bottom end of the Scholarship Club for this (2008) season for a NEW ticket order before before the ticket price and taxes...
At that level you are guaranteed two seats if available when your order is received but no guarantee on location...
If tickets at that level are not available the UAA refunds your money...
Mr2Bits
· 11 months ago
Season ticket holders I know must love lying as I was told it was about a 5k donation and the school keeps the donation whether you receive tickets or not. I even had a friend moping around after he and his wife donated the 5k and didn't get selected from the pool...drama queens
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
The way I see it there is a lot of room for improvement. We have superior talent and lost to BC and Wake. I think Fisher just getting a solid offensive foundation could solve those problems. Also, and I think I said this, we have a favorable schedule to what we had this year. VT comes off, GT is @ tally, UNC rolls on so I'm hoping this year was a blessed year for them. Miami has potential coaching problems based on crap play with the best talent in the conference. Clemson just hired an unproven commodity so we shall see how well the do. Maryland and NC State are both coming to tally. BC and Wake are away but like I said it shouldn't really take anything massive to beat those teams. If we don't improve over this year we really have a nearly unfixable coaching situation that will likely cause me to move on to another team... I also went to University of Maryland! At least the have an excuse for losing games, inferior talent. They do quite well with what they get.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
What is it you like about 1-20-09 Kevin? Your astrologist have some good news?
Ben Prather
· 11 months ago
Obama's Inauguration.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
I suppose I was being a little tongue-in-cheek re: our president elect.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Oh I considered that bad economic news, unless of course it was all staged economic terrorism! The anti-free market lobby can't be good for the economy.
Ramblin' Gator
· 11 months ago
We did just fine in the 2004 election without getting political in threads. If people want to talk politics, there are plenty of places to do that.
Kevin Donahue, circa June, 2008
I have only one word for you, Kevin...
hypocrite.
TigerEducated
· 11 months ago
I have only one letter for you, Rambling...
h
Ramblin' Gator
· 11 months ago
I have only one finger for you, TE...
;-)
OU_Ron
· 11 months ago
The old one finger salute....
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
You're totally spot on. I will put myself on secret probation.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Sorry.
Ramblin' Gator
· 11 months ago
No worries, Ben. Personally, I have no objection to political discourse.
NMLSooner
· 11 months ago
I don't know if sellout will be the right word, but the stadium will be full because of the free tickets everyone will get to their favorite teams/ Wasn't that part of the campaign?
1Tomcat
· 11 months ago
Thanks Kev I wasnt aware of FSU's attendance records. Seems kind of hard to understand, given then location and history of winning etc etc. According to wiki Tally has pop 168,979- city and 352,319 metro with FSU having 31,508 undergrads and 41,065 totl student pop- would seem like FSU would have a huge alumni base and sellouts should be the norm The FSU vs Miami game should probably be played in October and not Labor day, both teams need to face a couple of OCC teams prior to the rivalry game- an ealier matchup would not help either program IMO unless the revenue generated from such a matchup was so desperatly needed by both schools.
Mr2Bits
· 11 months ago
The problem with Tally is that it is one way in and one way out with the town being nowhere near any large cities. The problem with Miami fans is that they are just that, local fans and have no ties to the school.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Absolutly correct. Yes we are the winningest team in *Florida historically but we have many obstacles including being poorly positioned. We also only recently started having nearer to 90%+ of the total student body of Florida we used to be significantly smaller school, we have always been smaller and given both schools are taking steps to restrict furthur increases in size and raising tuition at the big three research schools (USF, FSU, UF) I'm thinking we will never be a bigger school.
The poor positioning mentioned earlier outside the metro area you mentioned there is nothing for at least two counties in 3 cardinal directions with north being georgia. There are nothing but very small towns for four hours to the south along the states west coast. Florida has Ocala, Orlando, and Jacksonville in fairly easy driving distance. It practically stradles 75 where you must drive 3 hours on I-10 from I-95 or 1 hour 45 minutes from I-75. Anyone coming from that side easily gets to UF. From the other side there is only pensacola and there are a lot of FSU fans out there but it isn't that big a city and it's pretty far away.
*As to those numbers in case anyone was offended by my facts. FSU winning percentage: .66/458-221-17 USF winning percentage: .63 /60-35-0 Miami winning percentage: .62/544-309-19 Florida winning percentage: .61/630-373-40 all include this year's data and factor ties as losses (or not wins) but that wouldn't change this ranking.
Ben Prather
· 11 months ago
What about Wewahichka?
Seriously though Marianna, Appalachacola and Panama City are cities of 100K+ that all feed into FSU.
Granted these are not the millions that Florida has, but those cities with millions also have universities like UCF right there, cutting into Florida's territory.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Why do people think it really matters? The best team may not win (as is always the case) but at least they both go in unprepared. Being on the same ground should make it about as good a match at any point in the season. Bobby used to say how losing in the begining of the season is better than losing at the end (which applies to either team), just ask Texas Tech or Texas what point of the season is the best time to lose if you are going to lose. Save Maine for later in the season or never play them in the first place. An easy opener doesn't make sense to me save it for when you have players recuperating from injuries toward the end of the season before rivalry week (2008 Florida/Citadel style).
We opened against to cupcakes this year and did that prepare us for conference play? We lost to a massively inferior Wake Forest squad.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Wake is a better team ansd has been for the last three years...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
What about them is better? Certainly they have inferior talent. The age/experience level was really good the year they won the ACC but in sheer Talent they are the WORST team in the league compared to FSU which is currently the second best just under Miami with Clemson a distant 3rd and VT a distance behind them. It is not acceptable that Wake is a better team and everyone in the ACC should be smacking themselves in the head for allowing them to do so well. They went and tanked to Navy the next week after beating us this season. 1-1 against navy for the season doesn't say quality team to me.
I hope against hope that it isn't a coaching issue but suspect there still are some.
Our other losses were at least to quality teams in Florida and GT and we barely lost to GT. Heck BC at least played for the conference championship.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Ok...
So let me get this straight...
Miami has the most talent in the ACC followed by FSU...
But yet neither was in control of their path to the ACC title game at any point this season and neither looked like they belonged on the same field with UF?
What about them is better?
Obviously their ability to win a game against FSU for the last three seasons...
Their coaching is better, their team chemistry is better, and (at this point) their development of talent is better....
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
A. We did have control right before losing to BC NC state having beaten wake earlier in the day.
B. Rest of points all boil down to coaching and man I hope we are kosher for next season in that department. Agreed on those though but our talent is so superior on paper they still shouldn't compete 3 years in a row.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
When you are dependent on a team in front of you losing in order to advance you are not in control...
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
I understand that. What I am saying, and I appologize for the apparent lack of clarity, is that we weren't dependent on anyone losing for about a 2-3 hour period. :P Because they had already lost.
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
Also I forgot when Miami beat VT they were in control until thier loss to GT.
Both FSU and Miami beat this years ACC champion.
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
One issue is that the largest alumni bases are generally 8+ hours (roundtrip) drive-time from the campus.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
But it wasn't an issue when they were winning ten games a season...
Bama_Babe
· 11 months ago
Off subject, but your picture....
Reindeer humping...classic ;)
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 11 months ago
Much better than the humping gators Christmas display...
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
No... it wasn't an issue when we were winning. Some "fans" only travel for winners and we have quite a few of those "fans".
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Yeah...
For some reason Ben can't seem to grasp that concept...
Are you going tomorrow?
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
I grasp the concept....
I contend that it was my point that was missed. Who wouldn't understand the concept fair weather fans? I simply meant Florida's greater positioning, hill billy following (never underestimate this!), proximity to all 4 major interstates so on so forth, insulates them from the same thing happening.
They have had dry years and surely they will see them again. Although I wouldn't care how successful Florida was if FSU was more so.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
I grasp the concept...
Says the guy who claimed that FSU doesn't have an attendance problem...
News flash, Benny...
There is only one interstate that runs through Hogtown...
The rest are nearly 100 miles away...
And at 123 consecutive sellouts, BHGS is not going to nor has gone through a "dry spell"...
Even in the three years Zook was there...
However, I do find your attempts at degrading the Florida fanbase mildly amusing...
If you could just learn to to apply your regional stereotypical nomenclature appropriately it might actually be effective...
And I'm still waitng for you to tell me why ticket sales/attendance wasn't an issue when the Noles were winning but now that 10 win seasons are a thing of the past that it's all about the regional location of Tally...
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
I may have to implement the fairness doctrine here. From the official NCAA attendance records, it does appear that 2008 would be the first year FSU is under 100% attendance since the late 1980s. I don't know if those are butts in the stands or ticket sales (I suspect the latter), however... I gotta put that out there, just for the record.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
How is that possible when ticket sales & attendance have been lowered annually since 2004?
Kevin @ Fanblogs
· 11 months ago
I don't know, but that's what the NCAA stats say. 100.35% in 2007.
gatorhippy
· 11 months ago
Note that FSU reported it's Sum of Stadium Capacity for five games at 400,000 (80,000 per game)...
The actual capacity of RZF@DCS for five games is 441,500 (88,300 per game)...
The NCAA allows for estimates if an institution so chooses rather than an actual turnstlie count...
So that's how they ended up over 100 percent...
Simple number manipulation...
NMLSooner
· 11 months ago
Hey, since it's still blistering hot on Labor Day weekend let's play football!...in our southernmost state! Can't they get Pitt & Penn State to renew their dormant rivalry about that time?
FSU_Ben
· 11 months ago
That is a good idea. I am wondering how the big east would fare against the Big-10. Historically not so good but I wonder how the match up today.
Regan
· 11 months ago
NO. BAD.
Zac
· 11 months ago
I can think of at least a dozen teams to start the season which should be reletively safe to play and attract a crowd. So, just to be nice, I'll throw 6 more in: Baylor, CO, IN, KS St, KY, Louisville, Memphis, MS St, Purdue, Rice, Rutgers, Stanford, S. MS, Syracuse, TX A&M, Tulsa, UCLA, UConn. And I didn't cover all of the conferences or independents. Imagine the draw ND would bring, despite their recent lack of success. Can't fill the stadium with enough of your fans? Worry not, they'll fill in the rest. Just a thought.
4cornerz
· 11 months ago
Zac I agree with you 150%. That sucks. What the NCAA needs 2 pre-season games b/c of the BCS. Well Money talks
Regan
· 11 months ago
Anyone else here a huge ABBA fan?
Clemson_Joe
· 11 months ago
In small doses, yes.
Porcine
· 11 months ago
Yes.
Regan
· 11 months ago
Thanks yall.
I have absolutely no idea why, but "Take a Chance on Me" will absolutely not get out of my freakin' head, and it is affecting my ability to post in a sane manner.
I apologize to all.
Yes...that was 2 days ago. No, it hasn't gone away...
All Comments
Why?
From ESPN's perspective, this could be a good move. Both FSU and Miami hinted at signs of life this season. While no one is going to call FSU-UM the "game of the century" for several seasons to come, there's a glimmer that something is happening in Tally & Miami. Lock down the Canes & Noles for another 4 years or so and you might get a couple of decent ratings games. Add the intrigue that one of those games is going to be FSU's first without bowden in 30+ years and you've got a little intrigue.
I'm sure ESPN would rather have the UF-Charleston Southern game as the weekend's marquee matchup... but I suspect the price would be too high. :-)
UF-CSU game would probably attract higher ratings (rolls eyes)...
But of course, UF doesn't need gimmicky made for tv package deals to sell out their stadium and attract big ratings...
Unlike the Noles & Canes...
Labor Day is a hard time to be able to get in-state prospects to attend the game given that most are just getting their season's rolling and they have to be back at school on the following day...
As do lots of people who would normally be attending the game, but will more than likely by pass the long drive back home after a prime time game...
Especially when neither has any expectations of ACC or MNC aspirations on the line and will be simply looking to take the next step back towards the spot light...
Why would a school want to feature the fact that it can't attract a decent crowd to a rivalry/conference game to a national audience that includess many of the kids you'll be targeting in recruiting?
You can say it's relative... we're better than Miami... but we did sell out any games this season with Wake, VT, Clemson, BC, and Florida on the docket. Even 5K empties is an attendance problem @ FSU.
It's the tickets that aren't sold in seemingly increasing numbers that should be of concern...
It was NOT a sellout...
You obviously don't pay much attention to your surroundings if you haven't noticed that the home game attendance in Tally has been declining steadily over the last four years...
That changed about two weeks out as a few of my friends that didn't have enough points to get a FSU ticket through their UF season tix were able to aquire ones from the FSU tix office...
More tix than they would have gotten through UF...
That should never happen...
The loss to Wake Forest marking 8 quarters of 0 touchdowns against Wake probably doesn't help for the upcoming seasons sales either.
When your chief rival is comng to town, you should never have a problem selling your tickets...
UF was allotted X number of tickets from FSU for sale to their season ticket holders...
The only reason those guys were able to buy those tickets was because FSU fans simply didn't purchase their season ticket packages due to dwindling interest caused by a sub-mediocre product on the field...
Once again displaying the lack of loyalty and fickleness contained in FSU fandom...
Also do not forget the proximity to Orlando and Jacksonville favors UF significantly. Jacksonville is the closest big city to us and we are 6 miles from Georgia we aren't nearly as easy a trip for Floridians.
Since I was a kid growing up in central florida every trailer park around us raised thier kids to be Florida fans I'm sure that is a huge boon too.
Ben; as I pointed out below to Kev; Ron Zook Field was selling out when the Noles were WINNING ten games a year...
Now that they aren't, FSU fans don't see the need to make the drive to Tally to see an inferior product on the field much less actually buy tickets....
You call that "fair weather"...
It has no bearing on football or fandom or universitiy size (excepting perhaps that some universities use football to pay for other varsity sports while some use the endowment interest).
AS to sizes I am aware of FSU being smaller than UCF, UF and USF.
I am not sure FAU or FIU (the next biggest schools I think) will dwarf FSU any time soon.
FSU 31,500 undergrads
UF 35,500 undergrads
Roughly.
The difference used to be much larger and narrowe d in more recent years. I think both schools are looking to restrict incoming class sizes from any significant further growth.
There is a huge difference between the seats being SOLD and people not showing up versus nobody BUYING tickets at all...
Not to mention that at NO point this season did FSU's attendance numbers reach over 95 % capacity of DCS @ RZF and only reached over 90 % twice versus V-Tech (81,76) & the Gators (83,237); who happened to attract the largest crowd in Tally ALL season long largely thanks to UF FANS and even with that attendance high against UF there were still over 5000 empty seats and almost 6500 empty ones for the Hokie match-up...
The absolute low point for the year being the dismal turnout in Jax with a 60% capacity crowd of 46,716 showing up in a 77,000 seat...
Easily more than a few thousand open seats in the crappiest section...
What is more alarming and should be a cause of concern, is that Jeff's severance package was to largely come from concession sales through FSU Boosters, Inc (or whatever it's called) at DCS@RZF...
But with ever dropping attendance numbers; can they sell enough peanuts and crackerjacks to pay him off when nobody is showing up?
I admit I never hated Miami like I do Florida (many FSU fans seem to hate Miami more) so Florida being consistant when Miami and FSU are ailing just galls me. I think it all boils down to the Jorts, mullets, smuggled booze and obesity (taking up more than a paid for seat or mooing past me to get to thier seat). Second worst experience with football fans -->Florida. First worst Penn State - 2005 Orange Bowl that jerk spit on me every time he swore at his team in those gaff prone overtimes. I hate people that spit when they talk. We should do a thread on worst fans! I would love to see a poll. Maryland and Notre Dame both have very good fans on yet another tangent.
What's wrong? No substance to back your opinion so you revert to stereotypes and bad fan claims?
FSU & Miami have no comparison to UF when it comes to selling tickets and never have...
UF wrapped up it's home schedule with it's 123rd CONSECUTIVE sell out...
A SELL-OUT crowd against the Citadel for crying out loud...
Do you realize that you can buy an FSU season ticket package for less than $300 dollars and pay no booster fee...
Meanwhile, if you want to begin buying a season ticket package at UF in 2009 your BOOSTER FEE will start at $4000 before the actual cost of the tickets is figured in...
And there is NO guarantee at that price that you wont be sitting in the back row of the North End Zone's upper deck...
Please point to where FSU will actually be any better next year?
The bulk of the defensive starters that are half way decent will be leaving...
The leading rusher at running back will be gone as will a few of the better receivers...
Fisher still hasn't necessarily found a solid starter in Ponder and De'Vo is bettering his baseball acumen each spring...
Playing this game on Labor Day is a BAD move...
But at least the TV money might make up for some of the lost concession revenue that is supposed to go to Jeff's bi-weekly severance check...
Looks to me like FSU's fans are worse and extremely fickle when it comes to supporting their squad in tough times...
At least Miami's crowd has ALWAYs been traditionally poor game attendees...
Once all the donation levels have been cleared up, you're still on the hook for the seat prices as well.
But it's incorrect...
In no way, shape, or form is the Unversity of Florida going to keep your money if you don't receive tickets...
The minimum contribution was $4200 at the bottom end of the Scholarship Club for this (2008) season for a NEW ticket order before before the ticket price and taxes...
At that level you are guaranteed two seats if available when your order is received but no guarantee on location...
If tickets at that level are not available the UAA refunds your money...
Kevin Donahue, circa June, 2008
I have only one word for you, Kevin...
hypocrite.
h
;-)
According to wiki Tally has pop 168,979- city and 352,319 metro with FSU having
31,508 undergrads and 41,065 totl student pop- would seem like FSU would have a huge alumni base and sellouts should be the norm
The FSU vs Miami game should probably be played in October and not Labor day, both teams need to face a couple of OCC teams prior to the rivalry game- an ealier matchup would not help either program IMO unless the revenue generated from such a matchup was so desperatly needed by both schools.
The poor positioning mentioned earlier outside the metro area you mentioned there is nothing for at least two counties in 3 cardinal directions with north being georgia. There are nothing but very small towns for four hours to the south along the states west coast. Florida has Ocala, Orlando, and Jacksonville in fairly easy driving distance. It practically stradles 75 where you must drive 3 hours on I-10 from I-95 or 1 hour 45 minutes from I-75. Anyone coming from that side easily gets to UF. From the other side there is only pensacola and there are a lot of FSU fans out there but it isn't that big a city and it's pretty far away.
*As to those numbers in case anyone was offended by my facts.
FSU winning percentage: .66/458-221-17
USF winning percentage: .63 /60-35-0
Miami winning percentage: .62/544-309-19
Florida winning percentage: .61/630-373-40
all include this year's data and factor ties as losses (or not wins) but that wouldn't change this ranking.
Seriously though Marianna, Appalachacola and Panama City are cities of 100K+ that all feed into FSU.
Granted these are not the millions that Florida has, but those cities with millions also have universities like UCF right there, cutting into Florida's territory.
We opened against to cupcakes this year and did that prepare us for conference play? We lost to a massively inferior Wake Forest squad.
I hope against hope that it isn't a coaching issue but suspect there still are some.
Our other losses were at least to quality teams in Florida and GT and we barely lost to GT. Heck BC at least played for the conference championship.
So let me get this straight...
Miami has the most talent in the ACC followed by FSU...
But yet neither was in control of their path to the ACC title game at any point this season and neither looked like they belonged on the same field with UF?
What about them is better?
Obviously their ability to win a game against FSU for the last three seasons...
Their coaching is better, their team chemistry is better, and (at this point) their development of talent is better....
B. Rest of points all boil down to coaching and man I hope we are kosher for next season in that department. Agreed on those though but our talent is so superior on paper they still shouldn't compete 3 years in a row.
Both FSU and Miami beat this years ACC champion.
Reindeer humping...classic ;)
For some reason Ben can't seem to grasp that concept...
Are you going tomorrow?
I contend that it was my point that was missed. Who wouldn't understand the concept fair weather fans? I simply meant Florida's greater positioning, hill billy following (never underestimate this!), proximity to all 4 major interstates so on so forth, insulates them from the same thing happening.
They have had dry years and surely they will see them again. Although I wouldn't care how successful Florida was if FSU was more so.
Says the guy who claimed that FSU doesn't have an attendance problem...
News flash, Benny...
There is only one interstate that runs through Hogtown...
The rest are nearly 100 miles away...
And at 123 consecutive sellouts, BHGS is not going to nor has gone through a "dry spell"...
Even in the three years Zook was there...
However, I do find your attempts at degrading the Florida fanbase mildly amusing...
If you could just learn to to apply your regional stereotypical nomenclature appropriately it might actually be effective...
And I'm still waitng for you to tell me why ticket sales/attendance wasn't an issue when the Noles were winning but now that 10 win seasons are a thing of the past that it's all about the regional location of Tally...
The actual capacity of RZF@DCS for five games is 441,500 (88,300 per game)...
The NCAA allows for estimates if an institution so chooses rather than an actual turnstlie count...
So that's how they ended up over 100 percent...
Simple number manipulation...
I have absolutely no idea why, but "Take a Chance on Me" will absolutely not get out of my freakin' head, and it is affecting my ability to post in a sane manner.
I apologize to all.
Yes...that was 2 days ago. No, it hasn't gone away...