Fanblogs.com: PAC 10 Expansion: Academics, Other Athletics and TV Markets
Don V
· 1 year ago
Ben, did I miss it somewhere or did you talk about how the Pac-10 schedules their non-football sports in pairs? If they do Thursday-Sunday pairings for men's basketball, arguably the only other revenue sport, then it obviously is a huge component of how they operate - one flight to an area and then a bus trip to the second school.
This would rule out a Texas-Colorado combo as well as Hawaii.
Zac
· 1 year ago
I don't remember who said it during the previous threads, and I'm feeling too lazy to look, but ultimately if the PAC-10 is to expand, they will exercise that option which nets them the most bucks. Yes, they want to maintain that "superior academic" look, but should the time come, they'll take best academic look that still gets them the most money.
They may get CO; they won't get TX. For the best of all achievable worlds, including academics, BYU & Utah would likely get the nod. It's a shame really; Hawaii brings a lot to the table, and they do have a natural rival in Fresno St. Unfortunately, those dawgs, coupled with Hawaii being an expensive away trip, don't bring enough to the table to be any more than an afterthought.
If I had my way, it would be Hawaii & Fresno (I think Fresno would improve academically, given time.). If the PAC-10 had their way, it would be CO & TX. Since neither of us will ever get our way, it's back to BYU & Utah.
bevo
· 1 year ago
Thank you for posting the NSF research and the link. The NSF report lists medical schools separately in some instances and does not separate in other instances.
For example, Texas' Southwest Medical school, MD Anderson cancer center, Houston HSC, and San Antonio HSC are listed separately although they are apart of the UT system. Texas Tech, which operates a medical school in Lubbock and El Paso, is listed under TTU.
Does this data include USDA grants? It appears that it does because UC Davis is ranked in the top 10. Is that confirmed though?
BYU maintains a fundraising foundation. I am not sure how they determine their endowment though. The remaining schools from the above expansion list are not among the 120 largest endowments. For what its worth, Oregon, Oregon St., Arizona, and Arizona St. are not among the 120 largest endowments.
Also, you can use library size based on book volume as a reflection of academic resources.
According to the Association of Research Libraries (http://fisher.lib.virginia.edu/cgi-local/arlbin...), the rankings of the considered Pac 10 expansion candidates includes Rank School - Volumes in Library 6. Texas - 9,022,363 36. BYU - 3,738,847 39. Colorado - 3,641,096 51. Hawaii - 3,407,167 55. Utah - 3,254,709
You also need to consider faculty pay, number of tenure track pay, expenditures per student, number of graduate level students (masters, doctorate, and professional) to get a better idea of academic resources and commitment.
In the middle and late 1980s, Missouri strongly hinted it wanted to join the Big 10. The conference rejected Missouri citing those factors as well as library size.
In the last round of expansion by the Big 11 (1999 or so), the athletics directors were talking about adding either Syracuse, Louisville, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Missouri, or Nebraska. Every school with a geographic connection were under heavy consideration.
The presidents stepped in and said none of those schools have similar academic commitment and resources. The presidents wanted Notre Dame or no one else.
If those same talks were held today, then I am not sure what the outcome would be. Perhaps Missouri and Nebraska have sufficiently raised their academic profile to merit a Big 10 bid. Maybe the Big 10 can look pass Rutgers' near continuos budget problems.
Throughout this series many people have questioned why Texas would leave the Big XII. All things being equal, I do not believe for a moment that Texas will leave the Big XII.
However, if Texas A&M jumps to the SEC (they were supposed to be the other school along with Arkansas to join the SEC) and/or Missouri leaves for the Big 11, then Texas will be looking for a new address as well.
The Big XII has an expansion problem too. What school could they add if Texas A&M and/or Missouri left? Remember, the Big XII has several schools in remote locations. Travel budget will be a problem considering the increasing cost of gasoline and jet fuel. Do we even need to mention missed class time?
Finally, I believe all talk starts with Colorado. With CU none of the other pieces makes much sense. The real question will be if they invite Texas or Utah assuming Colorado will accept an invitation.
Zac
· 1 year ago
"The Big XII has an expansion problem too. What school could they add if Texas A&M and/or Missouri left?"
Hardly, my friend, hardly. The Big 12 could pick up Air Force, CO St, (two bitter rivals; CO St is rival with CO), AR (long considered a better fit for the Big 12 than for the SEC), Houston, TCU (two more bitter rivals), Tulsa (They'd improve.), just to name a few. Now, obviously some of these are better than others; likely I've even forgotten a couple of better suggestions mentioned in other threads than some mentioned here. The point is, if the Big East can survive as well as they had, given the damage due to the defection of BC, Miami, & VA Tech, the Big 12 can certainly survive, even as big a loss as TX. However, like yourself, I don't see that in the Tea Leaves.
Porcine
· 1 year ago
Arkansas tried to join the Big back in the 70's?, but it didn't work out. We had to wait for some guy to come along with crazy notions like conference championship games. if they Texas schools would have had the guts to leave when Arkansas did, rather than let them start the exodus, it could have happened. They won't leave now.
Cougarfan
· 1 year ago
I'm not sure exactly what deans would consider when they look at a schools academic profile. BYU is not designed as an advanced research institution (Although it does produce a lot of undergraduate research). It is designed as a feeder to doctoral programs (BYU ranks 8th nationally for students who go on to earn Phd's, its the #1 dental school feeder, #6 law school feeder, #10 medical school feeder in the nation). I'm not sure if that helps or hurts their case. Where BYU excels at in advanced education is its business programs (various top ten designations by USNews and WallStreet journal in particular Accounting (#2 Nationally).
All Comments
This would rule out a Texas-Colorado combo as well as Hawaii.
They may get CO; they won't get TX. For the best of all achievable worlds, including academics, BYU & Utah would likely get the nod. It's a shame really; Hawaii brings a lot to the table, and they do have a natural rival in Fresno St. Unfortunately, those dawgs, coupled with Hawaii being an expensive away trip, don't bring enough to the table to be any more than an afterthought.
If I had my way, it would be Hawaii & Fresno (I think Fresno would improve academically, given time.). If the PAC-10 had their way, it would be CO & TX. Since neither of us will ever get our way, it's back to BYU & Utah.
For example, Texas' Southwest Medical school, MD Anderson cancer center, Houston HSC, and San Antonio HSC are listed separately although they are apart of the UT system. Texas Tech, which operates a medical school in Lubbock and El Paso, is listed under TTU.
Does this data include USDA grants? It appears that it does because UC Davis is ranked in the top 10. Is that confirmed though?
A ranking of your endowments adds more insight. I found this endowment data from the National Center for Education Statistics (2006) http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/d...
Rank School - Endowment Figure
4. Texas - $13,234,848,000
98. Colorado - $590,306,000
118. Utah - $509,095,000
BYU maintains a fundraising foundation. I am not sure how they determine their endowment though. The remaining schools from the above expansion list are not among the 120 largest endowments. For what its worth, Oregon, Oregon St., Arizona, and Arizona St. are not among the 120 largest endowments.
Also, you can use library size based on book volume as a reflection of academic resources.
According to the Association of Research Libraries (http://fisher.lib.virginia.edu/cgi-local/arlbin...), the rankings of the considered Pac 10 expansion candidates includes
Rank School - Volumes in Library
6. Texas - 9,022,363
36. BYU - 3,738,847
39. Colorado - 3,641,096
51. Hawaii - 3,407,167
55. Utah - 3,254,709
You also need to consider faculty pay, number of tenure track pay, expenditures per student, number of graduate level students (masters, doctorate, and professional) to get a better idea of academic resources and commitment.
In the middle and late 1980s, Missouri strongly hinted it wanted to join the Big 10. The conference rejected Missouri citing those factors as well as library size.
In the last round of expansion by the Big 11 (1999 or so), the athletics directors were talking about adding either Syracuse, Louisville, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Missouri, or Nebraska. Every school with a geographic connection were under heavy consideration.
The presidents stepped in and said none of those schools have similar academic commitment and resources. The presidents wanted Notre Dame or no one else.
If those same talks were held today, then I am not sure what the outcome would be. Perhaps Missouri and Nebraska have sufficiently raised their academic profile to merit a Big 10 bid. Maybe the Big 10 can look pass Rutgers' near continuos budget problems.
Throughout this series many people have questioned why Texas would leave the Big XII. All things being equal, I do not believe for a moment that Texas will leave the Big XII.
However, if Texas A&M jumps to the SEC (they were supposed to be the other school along with Arkansas to join the SEC) and/or Missouri leaves for the Big 11, then Texas will be looking for a new address as well.
The Big XII has an expansion problem too. What school could they add if Texas A&M and/or Missouri left? Remember, the Big XII has several schools in remote locations. Travel budget will be a problem considering the increasing cost of gasoline and jet fuel. Do we even need to mention missed class time?
Finally, I believe all talk starts with Colorado. With CU none of the other pieces makes much sense. The real question will be if they invite Texas or Utah assuming Colorado will accept an invitation.
Hardly, my friend, hardly. The Big 12 could pick up Air Force, CO St, (two bitter rivals; CO St is rival with CO), AR (long considered a better fit for the Big 12 than for the SEC), Houston, TCU (two more bitter rivals), Tulsa (They'd improve.), just to name a few. Now, obviously some of these are better than others; likely I've even forgotten a couple of better suggestions mentioned in other threads than some mentioned here. The point is, if the Big East can survive as well as they had, given the damage due to the defection of BC, Miami, & VA Tech, the Big 12 can certainly survive, even as big a loss as TX. However, like yourself, I don't see that in the Tea Leaves.