DISQUS

checkrazor · 1 year ago

You're smoking crack if you think Texass will leave the Big 12 for the Pac 10. The Pac 10 needs to stand pat on membership unless there is a serious re-alignment elsewhere. It's already a pretty far-flung league and you're talking about making trips to central Texass.

If the Big 12 got carved up and they could grab Colorado, then it might make sense to look at another school so they could have an even number of teams divided into two divisions. If Hawaii had its shit together, they could be a nice pick up, but they're a mess no conference needs. Some major conference cash might make Hawaii into a respectable program.

SirFartsALot · 1 year ago

No way would any big 12 team ever leave. the conference is set up to well right now, with established rivalries and good competition.

TampaGator · 1 year ago

How is Texas even in this discussion?

Why would Texas want to leave the Big XII to help out the PAC 10?

What's in it for Texas???

...and as you pointed out, they have very little interest in one another (well, at leaset Texas has very little interest in the PAC 10; understandably....).

Is Texas included just for reference?


GO GATORS!!

Lennie Collins · 1 year ago

Texas is mentioned because of PRIDE! I cannot see Texas leaving Texas A&M or Oklahoma unless the money is GREAT! Even Utah and BYU does not make sense. Nevada and UNLV does not make sense. It is called the PACIFIC 10...Arizona and Arizona State are not that close to the Pacific Ocean.

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

Texas is in this discussion specifically because when the PAC 10 last considered expanding Texas and Colorado where the top candidates.

The echoes of this are still heard when this topic emerges.

Indeed, the possible disinterest of Texas and Colorado is the most significant argument against an expansion consisting of Texas and Colorado.

ksuwild · 1 year ago

Why would Texas leave the Big 12?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=340...

Did I miss something or has Texas not been one of the most happy and healthy College Football teams in the nation since they joined the 12.

Tomcat..........I need you to change your picture back to the young OU fan crying. No offense to OU fans but that seriously cracked me up.

40AcresOfBurntOrange · 1 year ago

We are happy and healthy when we are not playing Kansas State!

HookEmHorns!

hricane23 · 1 year ago

ksuwild,

As a Jayhawk alum, I hate to admit that I agree with you, but I do.

And in addition to football, Texas is successful in practically every sport, as well. And politically, they have more pull than anyone else in the conference.

I can't see them ever leaving the Big XII.

At least when Miami left the Big East, it made geographic sense.

Marc · 1 year ago

Colorado has a national championship as well

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

Thank you for the correction.

Tex1836 · 1 year ago

Why would Texas (or Colorado) want to leave the best conference in the country for the perpetually overrated PAC10?

Dave Nelson · 1 year ago

Anybody who considers taking BYU into its conference should understand that the Mormon school won't play on Sundays, regardless of the stakes. So, if you're in the habit of Sunday softball or baseball series, you'll have to make a big accommodation. For this reason alone, I never expect BYU to join a conference that doesn't need it, as does the Mountain West.

Zick · 1 year ago

"separate the wheat from the chafe"? The "chafe"?

C Day · 1 year ago

Nevada and UNLV make the most sense, this would add another state to the Pac 10 domination list. UNR and UNLV are by far the top institutions in the state and are both large research universities with strong and growing academics (this is not UNLV 1990) They are the most up and comming academic institutions in the region and will both be top tier very soon. Nevada (the state) is in the pacific time zone so it fits the pacific theme, northern nevada and southern nevada might as well be a part of no Cal and So Cal respectively as far as politics go. Vegas is a large TV market and would add a great travel destination. As far as athletics, bothe have decent athletic programs and any problems would be easily fixed by BCS status. UNLV has the B-Ball program and some decent olympic sports, and UNR with BCS money would be respectable in football and basketball. UNLV would even be competitive in football if given BCS prestige.

Cougarfan · 1 year ago

Also, is it valid to consider non-football sports? BYU's ranked 5th in the nation by CFN in a combination of football and basketball programs http://cfn.scout.com/2/739042.html (granted I think that's a little generous, but as a cougarfan I'll take it!). Both BYU and Utah stack up very nicely in other sports (BYU mens volleyball is probably top 3 historically with many national championships, BYU and Utah's mens rugby teams have been in the championship games 5 of the last 7 years, yes they've lost everytime but still... Utah's women's gymnastics is strong and they're mens b-ball team is historically very good!)

Cougarfan · 1 year ago

Its probably important to factor in the effects of the LDS fan-base for BYU. The school travels extremely well all over the country (I remember in 2005 vs Boston College in Boston there was a considerably large BYU fan section). Cougar fans refer to UNLV's stadium as Lavell Edwards South because there are always more BYU fans than UNLV fans its like another home game. There's a large LDS population in all the PAC 10 states and TV ratings would be noticeably bolstered in every TV market of the PAC 10 with BYU, not to mention the addition of Utah markets.

Regan · 1 year ago

I am SO in the mood for some good ol' baby-back ribs right now...

BLACKSHIRTS · 1 year ago

Texas leaving big 12 for pac ten. That would be like an NFL team leaving the NFL for AFL (arena football league) pac ten sucks GO BIG 12

fan4fan · 1 year ago

Should the MWC expand with BSU?

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

Yes. And Fresno St and Nevada as well to make 12 teams.

The MWC is kind of in a rough spot. Utah, BYU, TCU, CSU and Air Force keep being tossed around whenever conference alignment is brought up. They like the membership stability the young conference has enjoyed.

When they aquired TCU I thought Boise State would have been a better fit at the time.

If any MWC team goes BCS, Boise State will be invited to the MWC. They may be invited before then.

fan4fan · 1 year ago

PAC – 10 Criteria
Academics
Utah and BYU are clearly ahead of any other schools including Texas to join the PAC 10 (BEVO). Actually academics for both BYU and Utah support them being joined to the PAC 10. These schools have some of the best departments in the country. Utah's Medical and research are very highly rated. BYU's Business and other programs are also very highly rated. Therefore, anyone arguing that academics is the reason not include BYU or Utah is simply ignorant.

Marketsize
This is one of the best arguments against a BYU/Utah addition to the PAC 10. Utah is a pretty good market, but it is not a L.A. or S.F. At the same time, Utah’s market is much better than say Fresno, Hawaii or anyone else in the West. Adding BYU is another strength in terms of marketsize. BYU has a very strong following nationally and has a stronger market than many of the other PAC 10 schools.

Rivalry
The only other pairing in the West that even comes close to the rivalry of Utah/BYU is maybe UNLV/Nevada. Texas is not going to be able to bring OU or A&M to the PAC 10. Texas you have to bring a rival.

Scheduling
Utah and BYU’s record against PAC 10 teams in the last 5 to 10 years is very positive. Utah is playing at least one PAC 10 team each year and BYU has a similar schedule. They are also both beating these teams on a regular basis. The one concern that the PAC 10 would have would be BYU’s non-Sunday policy. This might be avoided by finishing tournaments on Saturday instead of Sunday. Simple.

In the end, no other schools even closely match what the BYU/Utah combo brings. You will see as these articles unfold.

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

You underestimate the academics of Hawaii, Texas and Colorado.

But that is for another day.

Clemson_Joe · 1 year ago

Hmmm...I have a hard time respecting the academics of a school that accepted me after my sophomore year of high school (Hawai'i). I'm not trying to be self deprecating at all, but still.

Utah/BYU 2010

fan4fan · 1 year ago

I don't underestimate Texas, Hawaii or Colorado, but I was responding to the Texas fan in the other chain that said Utah did not have the academics to get into the PAC 10. This is a laugh. You can argue that Utah's and BYU's academics are as strong or stronger than any of those schools and certainly as strong as OSU, ASU, WSU and maybe others.

bevo · 1 year ago

Utah's academic profile and resources do not compare to UCLA 's or California's. BYU's academic profile compares favorably to USC's but does not compare to Stanford's. BYU does not have the research program like USC. For example, USC offers a PhD in all business fields and economics. BYU does not.

Those four schools - UCLA, USC, California, and Stanford - wield considerable influence in the Pac 10. Utah would have the easier path for an expansion bid if the Pac 10 considers expansion. Given the feelings about BYU and its commitment to LDS principles, I would be shocked if BYU receives an invitation from the Pac 10 should the conference decide to expand.

Colorado and possibly the Air Force Academy have an easier path for an expansion bid if the Pac 10 decides to expand compared to Utah and BYU. It was indicated that some Pac 10 schools will have a problem with the Air Force Academy.

A Utah/Colorado combination appears more realistic than any other combinations. Again, it will depend on who controls any expansion effort, athletics directors or presidents.

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

Granted UCLA and USC are two of the top research universities in the nation, as are California and Stanford.

How do Utah and BYU compare with Oregon State or Washington State? ASU and Utah work very close on many joint research projects.
When viewed as a whole conference, and not just the top, Utah Hawaii and BYU are where they need to be academically.

Air Force is a better geographic fit for the BIG 12, but that is a differnt discussion.

ev · 1 year ago

It doesn't matter how Utah and BYU compare to Oregon State or Wazzu since those schools are not under consideration. Fact is those two probably wouldn't be invited to join either if they were not already members. The Pac10 is allowed to asked for higher requirements than some of it's existing members.

bevo · 1 year ago

In this day and age of jet travel, geographical expansion makes little sense? Gasoline in Ohio sits at $4 a gallon. Jet fuel went for $3.17 a gallon on the day Continental announced it was grounding 27 planes.

I do not mind some harmless what if scenarios, but let's keep this grounded in the context of reality. Do you think Oregon State can afford to send its volleyball team to a game in Boulder? How many stops will the plane make as the Boise State women's basketball team travels to Tucson?

Athletics directors from the Pac 10 may keep television in mind if and when they ask teams to join their conference. However, they worry about the rising travel cost.

Of course, the Pac 10 could to a model used by the far flung University Athletics Association. In the UAA, sports like baseball and softball reserve a three-day weekend and decide their conference championship by tournament. The schools then schedule opponents who are closer to the respective campus to fill out the schedule.

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

The Boise Tucson argument is not very strong. Thats about as far as Boise has to go to play anyone already.

The argument this statement was referring to was that the Big 10 and Pac 10 should form a mega conference with a championship game and no/negligable cross division play.

Warbow · 1 year ago

Texas, Colorado, Utah and Boise State are the only teams listed that have been to a BCS Bowl??? I guess the 2008 Sugar Bowl is not a BCS game?

The top 5 attendance figures above are, in order, Texas, BYU, Colorado, Utah and Fresno St????

Ummm... Maybe a little research or a check of your own stats would help for this to be taken seriously.

Fresno State 36291
Hawaii 43514
Utah 42593

Dub_Livitz · 1 year ago

I think your the one who is mistaken, because while Hawaii was invited to play they did not show up at the Sugar Bowl. I really wish they would have.

Warbow · 1 year ago

The team showed up, the coaches were in SMU.

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

HeHe...

I began this last fall, when Hawaii had not yet been to the BCS. I obviously missed that corretion. I can't explain the attendance mistake, other than my incompitence.

My appoligies to Hawaii

Zac · 1 year ago

U bad ole putty tat!!!

Jeff · 1 year ago

Region is a consideration because we are talking about student athletes who should have school as a top priority, traveling all the time will not help the student athlete. Remember, most student athletes go pro in something other than sports.

ev · 1 year ago

Boise State's record against the Pac10 is wrong, they are 2-7 over the last 9 games.

socalbryan · 1 year ago

No matter what program you bring in, the attendance at those universities will skyrocket, as will the quality of the program. Lets be honest: you could bring in Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and UC Davis (rivals in IAA) and they would both thrive in the Pac 10. Also, they would turn the entire California Valley into a land of rivalry induced hatred -- oh, the joy! Fresno St would disappear.

UNLV and Nevada would both turn into outstanding programs were you to bring them into the mix. As would Utah and BYU. SDSU, San Jose and Fresno will not work because of academic requirements. And nobody wants Hawaii do to the fact that their fans are all thugs... not just the travel issue.

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

The point is Texas, Colorado, Utah, BYU and Hawaii are the only teams that already have figures, they don't need the development.

Why would the PAC 10 choose to carry the load of dragging another institution up to their standards when options are available that are very close already?

Clemson_Joe · 1 year ago

No I didn't. If you'll notice, it says "based on actual results". I am not aware of any politician in any race to use that tagline. BYU (National title) and Utah (first non BCS school to win BCS bowl) both have actual results, and I'm not aware of actual results by many politicians.

jhludwig · 1 year ago

Why, in the age of jet planes and national tv, do we focus so much on purely regional expansion? I think a FAR more interesting expansion would be an effective merger of the Big10 and Pac10. They have long historical ties, they could use the rose bowl as the conference championship game thereby securing it's relevance, the institutions are all comparable, there are great rivalries between the leagues, it would immediately make the Big10 network a national network and a powerful TV entity.

TampaGator · 1 year ago

I love the idea...

...then we could conveniently ignore two conferences for the price of one.


GO GATORS!!

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

That could certainly help the Big 10 overcome its naming difficulties ;)

jhludwig · 1 year ago

The Big Pacific Ten? Ten Squared? The Big 21?

Clemson_Joe · 1 year ago

Hmm....
Two of the top in attendance, a pair of geographic rivals, and a former National Champion and the only "little guy" to win a BCS bowl game. Interesting.

Change we can (actually) believe in(, based on actual results).
Utah/BYU 2010

Ben Prather · 1 year ago

Boise State won a BCS Bowl Game.

Utah did so before the standarde was lowered, and did so convincingly.

Granted Utah's opponent was not one of the top BCS teams that year, as was the case for Boise State and Hawaii who got to play the third pick.

Clemson_Joe · 1 year ago

That's true. I forgot about that.

Porcine · 1 year ago

How about that.

4cornerz · 1 year ago

Money talks. Why do you think Miami and BC left the Big East (V-Tech cried themselves in) Money.
If UT see more money than the big 12 good bye big 12

hricane23 · 1 year ago

I realize that money talks, but Miami PAID to get into the ACC. UM paid $2 mil to get in, and $1 mil to get out of the Big East. Additionally, the Big East guaranteed $9 mil over 5 years to stay in the conference.

I understand that UM will eventually see more money from being in the ACC, but I believe they only started breaking even last year. The financial ramifications of switching conferences presented issues when they were looking to replace Coker, which hlped lead to hiring Randy Shannon, over a bigger, more expensive name.

Additionally, considering the original Big East, the closest school was Va Tech. And the other 6 were much further away. Now, with the exception of BC, the farthest schools are those in North Carolina.

Money would play a role in any decision, but the Big XII wouldn't lay down. I still don't believe there'd be enough money to get this biggest fish in the pond to switch to a simliar sized pond.

Zac · 1 year ago

"Now, with the exception of BC, the farthest schools are those in North Carolina."

OOPSKI!!! You forgot Maryland, UVA, & VA Tech. All 3 are much farther away from "The U" than the boyz of "Tobacco Row". But, don't take my word for it; that's what Map Quest is for.

hricane23 · 1 year ago

Thanks, Zac, for the geography lesson. But the fact remains... UM's ACC opponents are, collectively, MUCH closer than their former Big East brethren.

Regan · 1 year ago

http://www.zoudave.com/Files/HelmMap.gif

Here's a fun map with helmets designating locations for geographical purposes.

It is quite interesting...

Geographically, the closest school to Tennessee is Clemson...

Zac · 1 year ago

Thanks, Regan!!! I've been looking for something like this. I think I'll blow it up and put it on my wall.

Porcine · 1 year ago

I've been trying to find that ever since PaulWesterDawg took it down.

Zac · 1 year ago

1st a clarification: I wasn't trying to invalidate your point. I agree; geographically Miami is a much better fit to the ACC than the former Big East. I was yanking your chain a little is all. In fact, when the Big East picked up S FL, all I could think of was WTF!?! But, Tranghese and company just had to have a piece of the FL market (I duly admit; it is a good market.) Now, if the Big East football side of the house expands, and picks up another FL team (C FL, FL Atl.) then they are at least doing S FL a service by providing an opponent which offers some geographic benefits. Otherwise, similar to Miami, I think S FL's nearest opponent is Louisville.

hricane23 · 1 year ago

Well, you could've indicated that you were razzing me! I spent half the night sulking, and the other half applying lipstick and cleaning "Bertha", a la Steve Buscemi in "Billy Madison".

Zac · 1 year ago

Too funny, big guy, too funny!!!

Regan · 1 year ago

hricane23's point is still quite valid. In the Big East, Miami's closest conference neighbor was VT in Blacksburg, VA. After expansion, only 3 conference foes were further away.

TigerEducated · 1 year ago

Clemson Joe...Seriously? Did you just use an Obama tagline to respond here on Fanblogs?

Can we keep this joint politics free? Here's hoping the answer to that question is:

YES WE CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clemson_Joe · 1 year ago

Hypocrite.