DISQUS

War_Eagle_Atlanta · 10 months ago

Didn't I just read this on The Smoking Gun?

:-)

Don't forget: Rival's owns this site. If this thread and TE disappear here soon, you'll know why...

Tom_Blogical · 10 months ago

That's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Unbelievable. Apparently, a bunch of BC clones run Rivals.

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

Actually, Rivals-prior to being bought out by Yahoo-was owned and founded by a bigtime Alabama fan & booster.

I have mentioned before that a kid that was a 2 star recruit who committed to Nick Saban in his 1st class at Alabama was bumped up to a low 4 star recruit the next day.

This is not new for me, but again, as I mentioned above, I've finally got some confirmation.

ROLLTIDE_73 · 10 months ago

Numbers one or two doesn't matter either way great recruiting classes by both schools.And the entire SEC.the west did a awesome job

The_Observer · 10 months ago

I don't think its much of mystery. I mean its pretty clear why they gave Alabama the extra 44 points...to piss off TE, clearly!

Porcine · 10 months ago

Yes BC and TE are going to all over this.

Regan · 10 months ago

So....who wins what?

Bama_Babe · 10 months ago

I think it is funny how you made/make fun of Alabama fans for claiming the "Mythical Recruiting National Championship" and how they make a big deal out of it by making t-shirts, yet, you seem to think it's a pretty big deal and complain about Rivals over and over..

If it's not such a big deal, why care about it? You seemed pretty confident in LSU's class yesterday, which you should be, so what does it matter if they are #1 in recruiting on ONE sight or not? The number doesn't change the amount of talent.

I don't know how this whole thing happened, but you can take the #1 from Rivals if you want it so bad. I won't be wearing a t-shirt claiming #1 in recruiting anyway, so it doesn't matter to me. All that matters is how these recruits perform on the field in the years to come. And that, my friend, is what I am confident in. Not the fact that they jumped LSU on Rivals...

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

So, in other words, as far as the point of this thread is concerned, you are-just like I am-confused as to how a company whose entire job centers around rankings and recruiting could get something incorrect like this?

I'm glad we agree.

As for making a big deal out of it, well, all I can say is that I've been saying it for years, and now I've finally got tangible evidence of what I've said. So, if you think I wouldn't find this informational and educational, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Bama_Babe · 10 months ago

I know you love this information because you love bashing Alabama and discrediting them for anything good they do. You hate Alabama, and that's fine. Doesn't bother me, because the feeling is the same for me with LSU. THAT'S why you are making a big deal about this. Not because you want LSU #1 on Rivals.

My point was that you are making this such a big deal, it is surprising to me that you posted this thread instead of posting a thread about how LSU is #1 on another service's recruiting rankings, such as ESPN. That's the one that's more credible, right??

Just let us Alabama fans bask in the glory of being #1 on "our" site.

There's no argument when it comes to the amount of talent Bama and LSU signed yesterday. Like I said on another thread, we'll settle the #1 argument on the field in the years to come.

Enjoy watching highlights of Shepard and RR...

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

You make it so extremely difficult to hate Alabama, though, _Babe...

Seriously...WHY must you be so kind with your responses? Give me some hate back! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

I congratulated you guys...and I congratulate you. Even the new fellas that just popped up here on the site. But, you're right...The hate is in my heart, and it was there long before you guys found your coach. I promise you.

But, it's like you make me feel bad for hating the school because you're so nice...

Dammit you're confounding, LOL!!!!!!!

Bama_Babe · 10 months ago

More hate, huh? Well you'll have to really piss me off for that.
Which can be done - if I recall correctly, one of our first encounters this past season involved you insulting my intelligence because I said something about how I picked Florida to beat LSU but didn't state it previously on here. Apparently that didn't sit well with you at all...

Anyways, I'm sharpening the claws, so fire away.. ;)

War_Eagle_Atlanta · 10 months ago

Don't be a hater, BB. Kill him with kindness!

"BC" · 10 months ago

haha. okay. i know i should be on the other side of this thing but this is truly funny and in my opinion, more worthy of having its own thread.

here's what the editor of TideSports.com just sent me in response to my question about his article:

"AP, which distributes news content worldwide, would have contacted the major recruiting services and said: We need your final NSD rankings by a certain time to get them to outlets in time for the evening TV news and papers to meet deadline for the next day.

Those services would then provide their rankings at that time if they wanted to be included (and considering it goes to basically every news organization in the nation/world, they would be happy to participate).

So I'm guessing that at whatever time that was set, Scout had Alabama No. 1. Maybe they updated later, or maybe the person who provided the ranking to AP got overruled when they hashed it out -- who knows?

All I know is that's what the AP sent and that's what we are going by for our stories for tomorrow."

so apparently, Scout.com reported to the AP, that their service ranked Alabama's class at #1.

as for the fuzzy math thing, it really is FUZZY math.
i had an accountant major test the formula and he came up with the correct score for alabama. so honestly, i think it's all just BS by opposing fans. (TE)
but the whole scout thing really is interesting.

TE, you will read in tomorrow morning's paper that Alabama was ranked #1 by both Rivals and Scout, and #2 by ESPN.
HOW DOES IT FEEL!!!???

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

So, you agree, as well, I see...Rivals manipulated the rankings (They also are counting one of your kids from last year's class, but aren't counting one of ours that we signed last year that counts for this year...Hmmm), and you find it "interesting".

I'm glad you agree. That's why I posted this in the first place. Nice to see that we're on the same page.

1Tomcat · 9 months ago

I really dont see any fuzzy math or manipulation.IMO these are all just projections and predictions, most fans should feel great about their teams possibilities. Texas ranks in the top ten nationally in every category including recruiting, whether its #5 or #6 whatever .The Bama vs LSU battle looks awfully close whether its #1 or #3 really makes no difference whatsoever.
Rivals,Scout,SI,ESPN
Right now Texas #5 or #6
20 recruits 19 from Texas one from Arkansas
Oklahoma # 13
23 recruits 11 from Texas 5 from Oklahoma 3 from Kansas
Other Texas schools
Texas A&M #22
Texas Tech #33
Texas Christian #46
Baylor #55
Houston #61
Rice # 78

Bama_DevilDog · 10 months ago

LSU gets beat regardless! LSU can't win from winning! HA! All these skeptical rankings are pointless. But, I love seeing LSU lose. Roll Tide Rivals!

Gator_Babe812 · 9 months ago

You sure have a big mouth considering what happened to your precious Tide in the Sugar Bowl......... and the SEC championship game. LSU is wayyyyy better than you are giving credit for and T>E is right. You won the "recruiting championship" by manipulation :-)

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

It feels pretty nice to finally have proof that you can't win without manipulation.

Period.

The_Observer · 10 months ago

I thought I remember looking at both Rival's and Scout's yesterday afternoon and they BOTH had Alabama as the #1 recruiting class.

Does anyone else remember seeing that or am I crazy? If so, what is reasoning behind that? Rivals obviously caters towards it's masses (southern football, especially Alabama), but what about Scouts?

Is it kind of like the Networks during a Presidential Election, noone wants to be out done, so they call a state with only 2% of the votes counted?

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

It typically moves throughout the day. As one kid commits, or decommits, etc., you'll see the rankings move.

Scout ranked Alabama #3 with two more commitments than either Ohio State or LSU.

EllBamaSports · 10 months ago

Well, no.

At the Bama Sports Report (BamaSportsReport.com) we calculated the rankings before they were released by Rivals, and the Tide had in fact moved ahead.

I think the "recruiting national championship" is just as dumb as the next non-Bama guy, but it is pretty impressive the haul the Tide has taken in. LSU also has a great class. One group of "experts" thinks Bama's is better.

Bama's #1 on Rivals, #2 on ESPN and #3 on scout. Slice it how you'd like, the Tide has had 2 super recruiting classes in a row. To think there's some giant conspiracy theory though, it just silly.

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

Thanks for your input. Multiple folks have calculated it. Folks that have no interest in LSU or Alabama. They came out with different information.

I appreciate your input. Very classy post. Other than Bama_Babe, I'm not used to being able to say that about most Bama fans here (Okay, I'll admit it...Just ONE Bama fan here)

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

Oh, and now the post is essentially irrelevant as Janzen Jackson has in fact signed with Tennessee.

My sources were wrong on this one. Amazingly well placed though they may be.

I will say this...Having a father whose about to leave to be a head coach at Miami of Ohio, & a mother who also lives out of state, the "home field advantage" many kids talk about was non-existent in reality. At least in this case.

"BC" · 10 months ago

oh and for those people that say rankings don't matter.
well, i have proof to the contrary.
this comes straight from the horse's (recruit's) mouth:

"Last year, when they pulled in the nation's No. 1, class it made a huge impression on me," McCarron said when he committed. "All the top players in the state wanted to play for Alabama, and that made me and the other top juniors take notice. Coach Saban does a great job recruiting."

being #1 always makes a winning impression.
being #2?? well, it makes AN impression of well...being #2...

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

BC,

Ask him what he thought about Saban lying to him about not recruiting other quarterbacks in this class?

No sour grapes here, as ultimately, Jackson gives you guys #1. But, I've got a funny story for you.

Coach Saban was worried about Darrington Sentimore flipping at the last minute to LSU. Ultimately, taking Sam Montogomery made that a moot point, as he's a higher ranked prospect with a much better academic-nevermind character-resume.

So, he calls Coach Robichaux down at Destrehan HS on the Monday after Sentimore's LSU visit and lectures him on "the meaning of the word commitment".

Coach Robichaux responded with, "I don't know coach, what would you think the Dolphins thought about your understanding of that word?"

Nick got quiet, and just asked to talk to Darrington, after that.

Priceless...

"BC" · 10 months ago

so basically you're saying Nick Saban is an AMAZING recruiter.
i agree wholeheartedly. trust me.

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

No, I'm not. I do agree with you that he's a great recruiter.

But, that's not my point at all.

My point is that he will lie to ANY kid to get their commitment.

I'm glad you don't mind it.

VTBobb · 10 months ago

I get the feeling ole Saint Nick would lie to the Pope himself to get an extra communion wafer. Not the kind of guy I would want my son to be mentored by.

Bama_DevilDog · 10 months ago

Lie?
I'm sorry, Who is being mislead?

I'm pretty sure recurits want to play for;

A school with traditon
A national championship contender
A opputunity to play at the next level.
A school with q great fan base.

Those few sells pitchs along with a few pitchs attact recurits to Alabama, the same with LSU. I don't beleive Nick Saban has to lie to convenice kids to come to Alabama. No one is lying.

I beleive your still caught up in the lie about Nick Saban not being the coach at Alabama. Not what he's pitching to recruits.

The_Observer · 10 months ago

Let me take this one TE...

Wow... just wow!

VTBobb · 10 months ago

I'm sorry, you are right (at least, from what I think you are trying to say). How could anyone accuse ole St. Nick of lying? It's not like he has a history of it. Let’s see about your reasons to play for Alabama..

“A school with tradition” - How far back and to what depth do you want to explore their "tradition"...of racism, of NCAA violations, of cheating, payoffs, etc...

“A national championship contender” - Since 2004, Alabama has averaged the #11 recruiting class, VT has averaged #26, yet VT has won 11 more games over that same span. In fact, only USC, Texas and Oklahoma have won more.
“A opputunity to play at the next level” – This possibly outdated page from ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/college?letter=a) shows Alabama with 25 alum as NFL players, VT has 34

“A school with q great fan base” – great when they are winning, but watch out when you aren’t. VT also consistently ranks as one of the hardest places for a visiting team to play, and one of the most exciting game day atmospheres.

Don’t get me wrong, I think St. Nick is a great recruiter and coach. But at what cost? I hope you and all of your top rated recruiting class remember, if you lay down with dogs, you’re gonna get fleas.

Bama_DevilDog · 10 months ago

I still haven't seen where Saban is a liar to a recruit. Maybe I'm blinded by my crismon shaded glasses. Or maybe it's just lies about lies.

On the other hand, Alabama's tradtion is as strong and prestige's as anyone. I beleive ESPN just did a report on the most prestigous college football programs recently and Alabama came in sixth. Calling Alabama's tradadtion staind by racisim is a slap in the face to all the progress Alabama football has helped make in this state. Alabama football has trancended race and helped this state do the same thing. And for the Fan base, nobody loves their players like Bama fans do. 92,000 fans at a spring game coming off a 7-6 season is just one example.

But, back to my orginal point. Can anyone show me where Nick Saban is lying to his recruits?

VTBobb · 10 months ago

Just to clarify, I in no way meant that there is any lingering tradition of racism. I wouldn't know if there were. I just meant that tradition cuts both ways. If you are going to trumpet one part of Alabama's storied history, let's shine a light on all of the Crimson Tide's history.

Reminising about the past and your school's "tradition" can give you a warm and fuzzy on a cold winters night, waiting for that first kickof in late August. But lets face it, I'm guessing every person on this site, and I know every recruit who signed on Wednesday, would rather their team win a NC next year, rather than have had won 6 of them before they were born.

In fact, I've been able to experience something that fans of most "traditional powers" haven't. I got to watch my team build itself into a national power (almost), after being a traditional 0.500 team.

U.of S.C.1978 · 10 months ago

hehehe

BamaBorn · 10 months ago

Last year when Alabama picked up the number 1 class it was played down on this forum as no big deal. This year it is a big deal with people looking for a booger behind every bush.

Why not play this thing down like was done last year?

Mr2Bits · 10 months ago

I will. I think ranking a bunch of high schoolers whom most don't know the definition of team is retarded. I also think/know half these jabronis turn out to be flops because all they care about is playing time and numero uno. Just ask ND how their top recruiting classes have panned out.

Bama_DevilDog · 10 months ago

Because LSU fans are butt hurt!

AUtigerman · 10 months ago

Well id like to know how many of these top players will mysterously academically qualify.

Scout_Is_Better · 10 months ago

Bama_Babe is exactly right! "Just let us Alabama fans bask in the glory of being #1 on "our" site."

Rivals is a Bama site that caters to Bama fans. If you're looking for FAIR, UNBIASED reporting go to SCOUT. I've been at scout for 4 years & love it. Let the Bama fans have their site. I don't want to be a part of any site that manipulates numbers to make the Bama Faithful feel better about their class. Apparently Bama_Babe and others are "basking in the glory" of being #1 on Rivals so the mission was successful for Rivals. Many (but not all) Bama fans now truly feel better about themselves just because Rivals gave that #1 nod to them!!!

Prospects that Bama is interested in often lose a star on Rivals just for signing with with another school. Rivals is CRAP. This biased nature drove me away 4 years ago. I hope you will join me in not giving another CENT to Rivals so that they can spin the Bama Propaganda Machine.

By the way, thank you for posting this article. I, too thought something was fishy that they were ahead of LSU. I'm glad someone else did the math for me.

PS - I'm not an LSU fan. I don't care who's #1, I just hate Rivals. Rivals - Run by Bammers for Bammers.

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

Let's don't hate on them too much...They do own Fanblogs (The site you're posting on)...

War_Eagle_Atlanta · 10 months ago

TE, is that your dad?

:-)

Scout_Is_Better · 10 months ago

Let me give Rivals some props then:

Rivals is making their #1 audience (Bama fans) happy by falsely giving them the #1 Recruiting rank. It's an EXCELLENT marketing strategy.

The same way the LA (Los Angeles) Times wouldn't dare give the 2003 national championship to the BCS (and rational) National Champions, LSU. The Los Angeles Times has USC fans to sell newspapers to! Rivals has Bama fans to sell subscriptions to.

Even though it makes mathmatical sense for the LA Times to give the 2003 NC title to LSU and it makes mathmatical sense for Rivals to give the Recruting Champoinship of 2009 to LSU, it would alienate their largest audience so they won't do it.

I bet the order came directly from the top of Rivals to make sure the #s are fudged to make their largest audience happy. They get far less negative feedback keeping the 8 million bammer subscribers happy. :-)

The_Observer · 10 months ago

Where would you rank Alabama's recruiting class this year?

Tommy_Trojan · 10 months ago

How in the world does Alabama fans become the largest fan base. That is ridiculous. They may be large - but there are very many extremely large audiences for many schools. Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Notre Dame and Southern Cal have extremely large fan bases. Alabama is a very small state population wise. They are not even in the same hemisphere as California or Texas is. I seriously doubt if any of these recruiting services are catering to Alabama fans only. And, even in the SEC, LSU and Florida and Tennessee and Georgia and Auburn all have very large fan bases also. I'd bet my last dollar that the Alabama total fan base doesn't even rate in the Top 10 in the country. If anything, Rivals in only trying to create more controversy in the SEC, with the disputed ratings of the Alabama class. Now, that would keep generating more moolah.

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

Their Rivals site has the most amount of subscribers than any other school specific site on the network.

As far as his rant on the LA Times...Since when does the LA Times award the AP Trophy? I dunno...

Scout_Is_Better · 10 months ago

Allow me to rephrase then?
I didn't have to read the LA Times the day after USC won their bowl game (was it the 2004 Rose?). Yet, I'm sure they proclaimed USC the champs. They don't award it, but I'm sure they used the AP ranking. Apparently it was a very bad comparison.

The rant remains the same - Rivals #1 subscriber site is their Bama site. They catered to those fans.

You're spot on with where I'm coming from RE: "Their Rivals site has the most amount of subscribers than any other school specific site on the network. "

Tommy_Trojan · 10 months ago

TE:

Well, that clears that up. They really have the most subscribers? Okay, that might be believable. I guess they all spend the whole off-season pouring over depth chart upon depth chart, filling holes with imaginary great recruits, all the while the final depth charts will look nothing like that. I know that ours never looks the way that it is "supposed to". One thing for sure, only about five great recruits, are gonna make any kind of significant contribution to any team at these levels.

Bama_Babe · 10 months ago

SIB,

I had a sense of sarcasm in that statement. I'm not basking in the glory of anything except another great recruiting class. Does it help that Rivals named us #1? Yes. Do I feel any less excited about the class even though other site's have Bama listed at #2 and #3 or lower? Not at all. So the whole first part of your post is stupid. I don't feel better about myself "because Rivals gave that #1 nod" to Alabama. That's not where my self-confidence comes from. If you don't care who is #1, then why are you even commenting about it? Go show your hatred of Rivals elsewhere...maybe a sight that isn't owned by Rivals...

And TE, correct me if I'm wrong (of course you will), but since Janzen Jackson went to Tennessee, this argument about Alabama "mysteriously jumping" LSU is no longer valid. I believe Rivals was counting him in LSU list of 5-stars, since yesterday they had 5 and now they have 4. So it looks like to me, all you Rivals and Bama haters can sit back and enjoy the sound of the Alabama Nation celebrating 2 in a row (something only Southern Cal has done before, I might add) .. even if it is awarded from Rivals.

Anyways, congrats to all the classes. 2009 had a bunch of talent, and I know we all can't wait til they hit the field.

BowToSaban · 10 months ago

Haven't run the (purely subjective) numbers for myself, - and don't put words in my mouth here (TE) - but if the spreadsheet is, in fact, correct and Rivals' ranking is wrong, that's enough to make you wonder. And hope that Rivals provides some rational explanation - or a retraction - as may be applicable.

With respect, though, labeling the (apparent) discrepancy "evidence" of "manipulation" is a bit of a stretch. Premature, at least. Could a 44-point differential be the result of conscious decision to move Alabama ahead of LSU? Certainly. But we ought to shave with Occam's Razor before jumping to that conclusion. The differential here is so small relative to the data sample and the calculations' complexity, the simpler, and therefore more likely, explanation is simple human error, again assuming that an error exists at all.

Besides, why manipulate the OBJECTIVE portion of analysis, i.e., a complex but relatively straightforward set of calculations based on published formulae and known/fixed data? The risks are high: manipulation of an objective analysis is easily discovered. The consequences of discovery are severe: undermining Rivals' credibility and integrity. And the rewards are, quite frankly, marginal: crowning "your team" as the mythical recruiting champion. Seems rather unlikely, especially when the alternative, "adjusting" the purely SUBJECTIVE scores of recruits either committed to or leaning towards a particular team, accomplishes the same result, and is nigh-undetectable if executed with any degree of subtlety.

So for the end result to have been "manipulated," the Powers That Be at Rivals must be both (a) biased, and (b) rather stupid. I, for one, will be disappointed if Rivals "cooked the books." Not because Alabama "lost" but because a lack of integrity on that scale will mean my subscription money has been wasted. Regardless, insufficient evidence exists to reach a definitive conclusion that a conspiracy exists.

LSU signed a superb class of athletes, and so did Alabama. If the 2008 Alabama-LSU thriller is any indication of things to come, I hope this trend of success (although I hesitate to label 2 years - for Alabama - a "trend") continues - for both schools.

AUtigerman · 10 months ago

Bow
(although I hesitate to label 2 years - for Alabama - a "trend") what two years are you talking about. If i remember correctly you were 7-6 in 2007 not exactly a stellar year,or are you assuming that 2009 will be another good year?
Pretty gutsy call if you ask me.

BowToSaban · 10 months ago

AUtigerman, I understand your confusion since upon rereading, that part of my post was not the model of clarity, and yes, Alabama went 7-6 in 2007 and LSU went 8-5 in 2008 (although many Alabama fans would have sold their daughters into a Turkish prison for an 8-5 record over the last decade). So allow me to clarify: the "trend" I was referring to was a RECRUITING trend. Alabama's 2 years of excellent recruiting do not exactly a "trend" make, but I'm hopeful. And LSU certainly has a much longer recruiting "trend" going.

OU_Ron · 10 months ago

" many Alabama fans would have sold their daughters into a Turkish prison for an 8-5 record over the last decade "
You Bama fans take your football serious..;-)

AUtigerman · 10 months ago

Bow
I guess i wasnt thinking recruiting because in my opion you guys have been recruiting great for several years now. Everyone knows this year and last year ,but prior to that 2007 #10, 2006 #11,2005 #18.
So even though many Bama fans think they just didnt have the talent in place to win that really turns out to be somewhat of a lame excuse.

TigerEducated · 10 months ago

Not to change the subject, but you guys are getting an absolutely tremendous football player in DeAngelo Benton...That kid is a legitimate threat to be your #1 receiver this fall.

Provided you keep it simple. It did take him three tries to get qualified and get his info to the Clearinghouse. My sources had told me that he would be ready to enroll in Summer Semester's for LSU come June. Don't you guys still operate on quarters? He could get in earlier than there, if that's still true...

BowToSaban · 10 months ago

I think AU changed to the semester system back around 2000 or so. But yes, Benton was huge for them.

Scout_Is_Better · 10 months ago

You are correct, AU changed to Semesters in Fall of 2000.

BamaBorn · 10 months ago

Again, why is there bellyaching and sour grapes over the recruiting class this year? Let's wait until these kids prove themselves for a couple of years on the field.

This is what makes some of these players go off the deep end in college. Hero worship BEFORE they even set foot on the college campuses.

Determine who's the best on the field NOT on paper.

Zac · 10 months ago

And here was I thinking the math was fuzzy on the other thread. Yo! USC'78, I'm having another panic attack!

U.of S.C.1978 · 10 months ago

Chill down there Zac, 78 gonna try to help you deal with life after others huddle up against you.

Zac · 10 months ago

ARRRRRRRR!!! Who be hudle'n agin me? Why I'll bite em an scratch ARGGGGGGGG!!! (I mean, just cause I'm pare-of-noid, don't mean they ain't out to git me.)

U.of S.C.1978 · 10 months ago

LOL, I didn't get a real good look at em. But one of em had a slide rule in his pocket.