Coker was the inevitable fall boy. Much like Zook at Florida, you never want to be the man to follow the man. Everything Coker did was held up to Davis (Coker even had the audacity to win a national title with "Davis' players") and he was never going to be good enough.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Both of you are way off base. That .800 winning percentage was an absolute sham. Coker won with Davis' players. From 2001-2003, Miami played in three BCS games and back-to-back title games. The Canes were 35-3 on Coker's watch.
Due to poor recruiting, an inability to develop talent and an inability to put together a solid staff, Coker's next three years produced a 25-12 record... without sniffing the BCS. Instead Miami won a Peach Bowl (Florida), got handled in another (LSU) and won a Blue Turf Bowl in Idaho.
If Coker got such a 'raw deal' how come this guy's phone has rang since Miami gave him the boot? How come he has to send his resume to UTSA and is basically lobbying for the job at the University of Nowheresville? If this guy was a good coach, he wouldn't be going on season three in the booth.
Coker isn't a tenth of the coach Ron Zook is. Please. Zook could recruit and develop talent and if given more time at Florida, could've been successful. Not Meyer successful, but successful. Coker never could've gone to Illinois and delivered a Rose Bowl berth. No chance.
Coker is a nice guy, but he's a bum of a head coach. He got the Miami job by default... which would've been Greg Schiano's, if he didn't bolt for Rutgers a month before Davis quit. Coker's only head coaching experience was at some podunk Oklahoma high school in the 70s. He was given the keys to a Ferrari F430 when his only driving experience was jump starting a Yugo every morning.
No mystery why it will take Randy Shannon 4-5 years to fully clean up this mess. Go back and check out those 2004-2006 recruiting classes at Miami and tell me again that Coker got a 'raw deal'.
The only people who feel this are Miami haters who want to see the Canes remain down, a la the Bobby Bowden situation in Tallahassee and the way Nole haters want to see that old man run that program into the dirt for another ten years.
I read that portion on your blog where they were talking with Tuberville about the Miami program and the particulars of recruiting. If Shannon doesn't work out, do you think any Cane fans might be interested having Tubs return as HC?
Regan
· 9 months ago
I believe Coker was the right man for the job in 2001 when Butch Davis left. Had Miami brought someone else in, I just don't know if they would have taken home the 2001 NC.
That is entirely my 'wild guess' opinion. Having said that, I absolutely hate it when one of my teams' coaches has to leave. I wanted Coker to right the ship at Miami after the disastrous Peach Bowl game vs. LSU and hoped those changes would do the trick. Sadly, when all was said and done, it was clear that he wasn't the guy to do that.
I think Coker is the "anti-Zook" personally. They are on polar opposite ends of the scale when it comes to their strengths and weaknesses. Coker will do just fine at a smaller school I believe...but as you know probably better than I do, coaching at The U is a totally different bird than it is anywhere else...
gosu27
· 9 months ago
Are you saying that the deal his classes were bad? If so, He had the #3, 12, and 14 ranked classes according to scout.com.
BettorFan
· 9 months ago
I agree with Canes. If the other schools saw that he was actually talented, why didn't he get a job right away?
Canes305
· 9 months ago
War_Eagle -- Tubbs would work at Miami if Randy didn't, but I think by that point he'll already have a new gig locked up. I expect him back in the game next year, whereas Shannon has a few more years on his Miami contract. That and I believe Shannon will turn it around, in time.
gosu27 -- Recruiting rankings are misleading and at Miami, they really don't matter. The U has always been about getting the 'right' players, not just the highly-touted ones. Ed Reed was an under the radar kid from Louisiana. FSU was his dream school, but they didn't want him. He chose Miami over Tulane. Santana Moss was a local Miami product who came to The U on a track scholarship. Clinton Portis left Gainesville for Miami because Butch Davis saw him a a RB but Steve Spurrier wanted to move him to CB.
Coker didn't (1) have the ability to sniff out Miami-caliber talent, (2) didn't know how to recruit his own backyard, (3) didn't have in roads with Miami high school coaches and (4) didn't know how to recruit position-wise. Year after year he didn't address needs. Between 2001-2006, Coker never recruited ONE quarterback who panned out. He had about four defect at the last minute, going elsewhere and with no back up plan.
Coker didn't even have a recruiting coordinator on board during his six-year run. Further proof how in over his head he was from day one. He was able to land some highly-ranked kids, but again, they never panned out.
Willie Williams was a risk from the get go. Five-star wideout Ryan Moore turned into a head case that never reached his potential under Country Club Larry. Five-star Aikeem Jolla never reached his potential either, transferring to New Mexico State his final year. Lance Leggett, another five-star that fizzled.
Coker promoted Rob Chudzinski to OC in 2001, which worked out... but he failed miserably with his next few hires. Dan Werner was promoted from within and was a bust. Look as his resume. He was never Miami OC material, but Larry, in over his head as head coach, had no clue how to conduct a search for a quality OC.
When Werner fizzled, the washed up Rich Olson was brought on board, as the university's choice and Coker brought in buddy Todd Berry as co-OC and QB coach. Olson and Berry failed as well.
Shannon didn't fare well with Patrick Nix, but Nix was his fifth choice at OC and he wasn't afraid to can him after two years of mediocrity. Mark Whipple is on board now and he is definitely Shannon's guy and second choice, after Dirk Koetter turned down the opp again.
Shannon is in the mold of Butch Davis. Both are defensive minded guys with Miami ties and this was their first head coaching gig. Davis was 43 when he took over and Shannon was 41. Both know the program, know the culture and realize the importance of locking down South Florida recruiting-wise. Since Shannon got on board, both Urban Meyer and Bobby Bowden have failed to recruit Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties the way they did when Coker was in charge.
Things are getting back to normal at The U. 2009 will be a rough year, due to the schedule, but by 2010 you'll see that Miami is 'back'. Only then will outsiders realize what a cancer to the program Larry Coker was.
Coker almost blew it in 2001 with the best college team in history (close calls at Boston College and Virginia Tech) and he was outcoached against Ohio State, even though he had Ken Dorsey, Kellen Winslow II, Andre Johnson, Willis McGahee and Roscoe Parrish on offense.
His legend grew because of a 24-0 start, but once it was his team and his players, we saw what a fraud Coker was. It took a few years for things to fall apart completely and it'll take Shannon the same amount of time to get it right again.
There's only a small window open. I wouldn't expect Tuberville to get a new HC job until December, although he may find some temp work as analyst this fall. If Miami tanks this season, they may decide that three years was enough for Shannon.
Regan
· 9 months ago
Who Coker missed in the recruiting area was Pete Garcia if memory serves. Didn't he do a lot of Davis' recruiting?
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Pete Garcia definitely helped Davis, but ten Pete Garcias wouldn't have helped Coker.
You either "get it" or you don't "get it". Coker didn't "get it". He was in over his head with that job from day one. He barely was able to maintain over that span, let alone grow the program. Each year he was on board, there was a decline. In 2001 Miami was able to outtalent the competition, even with poor coaching. That was no longer the case as the years went on. Inferior coaching caught up with Coker.
To recruit successfully at Miami you need (1) to lock up the tri-city area and keep local talent home, (2) you need a recruiting coordinator to head up the task that is recruiting and (3) you need to address the program's needs, knowing what to stockpile each year.
Shannon has his thumb on the pulse. He has South Florida on lockdown, he has a stellar staff and he knows who and what to go after. Last year was about linebackers and receivers. This year was offensive lineman and cornerbacks. He knows how to cherry pick top national talent, but also can identify under the radar kids. Look at three-star Adawale Ojomo, who had a very solid freshman campaign last year.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 9 months ago
Be honest, Canes305, were you sounding the alarm immediately like Baghead at FireRonZook.com, or did it take you a while to notice?
Canes305
· 9 months ago
War_Eagle.... When Miami went on the run in 2001, I wasn't thinking about Coker. I was smitten by the 12-0 run by arguably the most dominant college football team (or at least most talented) of all time.
I started getting wary in 2002 when another talented Miami team seemed to be underachieving. Close games against Rutgers and Pittsburgh. Giving up 45 in the finale against Virginia Tech. The Canes didn't look focused, which is on the coaching staff. Coker simply didn't have the kids ready. They were on autopilot in '01 and Ed Reed was coaching the team more than Larry C.
Coker officially lost me with the 2003 Fiesta Bowl 'loss' against Ohio State. Granted the Buckeyes were a gritty bunch and played solid defense, Coker got the pants coached off him by Jim Tressel -- who has since been exposed over the years by faster, more athletic teams.
How Miami was only able to score 14 points in 59:59 of football with Ken Dorsey, Kellen Winslow II, Andre Johnson, Willis McGahee and Roscoe Parrish on offense... It was as if Coker had no game plan and though the team would just will themselves to another win. Even more frustrating, his lack of a reaction when Terry Porter threw that bogus flag.
Back-to-back national championships were on the line and a 35-game win streak.... and old man looks like a deer in headlights.
I started losing faith in Coker after the Fiesta Bowl and officially knew Miami was screwed in fall 2003. After a 31-7 loss at Virginia Tech, Miami faceplanted the following week -- at home -- to an average Tennessee team, 10-6.
Up to that point, the last team anyone ever wanted to play was Miami the week after a loss -- in the Orange Bowl, no less. That loss was an abortion. The team was flat, which showed me they didn't respect their coach and he couldn't get them past the loss -- their first regular season "L" in over three years.
The 10-6 loss to Tennessee was the first time Miami hadn't scored a touchdown at home since the 1984 season. Even during the probation years (late 90s) against good Florida State teams (1996, 1998) Miami could still muster up a few TDs.... yet against a sub par UT team the week after a loss, the Canes were flat.
I was 1000% done with Coker in November 2003.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Tubbs is working for ESPN this season. As for Shannon, he just signed an extension and deserves more time to right the ship. Ignorant fans and outsiders who don't realize what a mess Coker left - those are the only folk who want to see Shannon gone.
Some folk compare him to Zook because he recruits well but hasn't won immediately. Like I said before, I think he's more in the mold of a Butch Davis. This is new to him and he's learning on the job. He's also not afraid to seek wise counsel, talking often with Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells as his mentors. He also talks with Pete Carroll regarding how to assemble a quality staff.
Shannon can recruit and is reloading the talent. The only thing he hasn't done is assemble the staff he wants, due to Miami's financial situation as a private school. I read last week that Florida's athletic budget for this upcoming season is upwards of $85M while Miami stated last week that they'll bus it to Tampa and Orlando this fall, canceling chartered flights to save money. Different ball game when you don't have big time boosters and state funding.
Mark Whipple is on board to run the offense and John Lovett is the new defensive coordinator -- the third in three years for Randy.
A lesser coach could've stuck by a Tim Walton or Patrick Nix, but Shannon quickly realized that neither were going to get it done and cut ties with both. He's on a mission to rebuild and get it right. It's his mission to get Miami back to where it belongs. Randy has a ring as a player, one as a grad assistant and one as a DC. He knows the demands and what it takes to succeed at Miami. By 2010 you'll see a Miami team more reminiscent to the ones you saw earlier this decade.
Regan
· 9 months ago
Agree 100%. Shannon is the guy Miami needs right now. First and foremost, he understands Miami inside and out, and that alone is money. The U is a different place, and needs a coach that understands that. He's a proven recruiter and a great motivator, and you can tell just by looking at that stone face how much the guy wants to win.
As far as Tubs goes, I...just don't know. I mean I really don't know. His resume is just fine and he knows his way around Coral Gables.
Eh, I guess I've just developed a leeriness towards hiring 'hand-me-down' coaches; I'd much rather take a chance on an up-and-coming Coordinator, or a HC from a successful smaller school. For every Saban, there's three Spurriers...
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Shannon is the only guy who can bring Miami back with the current big money landscape of college ball. Tommy Tuberville said it on ESPN U's recruiting special a few weeks back -- Miami is a tough place to coach and is much different than a lot of the 'rah-rah' schools out there. The U is almost like a professional franchise, much more than a college program. Big city full of transplants as opposed to a podunk college town full of yokels.
No one knows The U better than Randy Shannon. There's a formula regarding bringing the Canes back and he knows that better than anyone. He learned it from Jimmy Johnson and Butch Davis. He's been knee-deep in this program for 20+ years now.
I fully agree regarding up and comers. Shannon has a hunger that a lot of other guys wouldn't have. This is his first job and it's his dream job. He's a Miami guy and will work tirelessly to bring this program back. He's not on board to use Miami as some stepping stone. This is his Graceland. He won't stop until he gets it right. Based on some flashes of greatness last year, Miami isn't too far off. The depth hasn't quite returned, but when the Canes were 'on' last year you saw where this thing will be a few years from now.
CaneResurrection
· 9 months ago
Another big plus is, if RS get's this thing turned around (which I fully expect him to do), I don't see him jumping ship to an NFL or higher paying gig. RS is home in Coral Gables.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Exactly. Randy has his dream job. The only time he ever left south Florida was to play for the Dallas Cowboys in the late 80s/early 90s. From there, it was back to Miami, where he's worked for The U and the Dolphins, under Jimmy Johnson.
If Randy gets the job done, there's no reason he can't have Miami doing what Southern Cal is doing out west. The programs are mirror images of each other.
Thirty years ago Howard Schnellenberger said he wanted Miami to be the USC of the east. Earlier this decade Pete Carroll said he wanted USC to be the Miami of the west. These days, the pendulum has swung again and it's Shannon who is emulating what USC is doing... same way Howard did three decades ago.
Wardboy3
· 9 months ago
As far as money goes I do not want to hear someone from the U complaining about not having any "big time" boosters.
If every player from the U that is in the NFL donated 5% of his 2008 salary that would be more than $10 million being donated to the school.
And that is just off of their 2008 salary. Just imagine if the former players did something like that every year.
Hell even if it was just 1% it would still be more than $2 million.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Please. You're ignorant if you're going to compare a few NFLers and what they could donate back to the school with what Florida gets from state funding and Bull Gators who are absolutely loaded.
Florida has an athletic budget upwards of $85,000,000 this year. Can you even comprehend that number? Every Miami player in the NFL could donate his entire annual salary and it still wouldn't reach half that.
Miami is a private school with upwards of 9,000 undergrads. Florida is a state school with about 50,000 undergrads. Former Miami players give back better than any other alum in the country. Florida has a ridiculous amount of money to burn as the big state power and has one of the largest athletic budgets in the country.
The fact Miami has been able to do what it's done these past few decades on a shoestring budget and without the funding or facilities that other programs have -- it's mindboggling.
CaneResurrection
· 9 months ago
These people like to think we are on an even playing field with all the other universities. They can't stand the fact that we've done alot more with alot less than their schools. The knowlegable fans can't even throw the Thug U moniker at us anymore. High grad rates, low disciplinary problems, low funding, all we have to do is start back winning and we'll be like teflon. Nothing will stick.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Exactly, CaneResurrection. I also love when the play the 'attendance card'. Florida fans love that one, yet fail to do the math.
If you have 9,000 undergrads and are getting 36K for UNC, 46K for VTech and 65K for FSU.... that's anywhere from 4x to 7x the student body.
There are more Florida and Florida State alum in Dade and Broward Counties than there are Miami alum. Most Miami alum isn't from Miami and doesn't stick around after graduation and most Miami fans are transplants to the city who have adopted the team the same way they did the Dolphins. They don't have the same ties to the program one would as a proud alum.
If Florida has 50K undergrads and packs about 90K in the Swamp on a Saturday and Miami has 9K undergrads and is getting upwards of 40K to 65K fans in the stands on Saturday, can anyone REALLY say that there are attendance issues at Miami? Please. For a small private school with a small student body, The U is very well represented at home in fall.
Problem is when you're as successful as The U, so many ignorant outsiders are clueless. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to over the years that are shocked to (1) find out The U is a private school and (2) that the student body is as small as it is.
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 9 months ago
Great argument--if you assume that only alumni go to football games...
Your argument that Miami is so small a school is exactly why I'd argue that they have the biggest bandwagon in all of CFB--save Notre Dame, of course. But if their fans aren't in the socio-economic class that buys tickets, perhaps a cozier on-campus facility that seats around 40,000 might be a better fit...
You're way off on your enrollment numbers for UNC, FSU and VT. You made me look.
Wardboy3
· 9 months ago
You are wrong. Every Miami player in the NFL in 2008 salary totaled $202,983,768. That includes base salary, signing bonus (paid in 2008) and any other bonuses.
I understand the undergrads & so on & so forth but to claim there is no money is just BS.
Ward - OK, you're right on the salary... but again, why is it on former players to pick up the slack? They all have families, they all give to charities and most of them in some way, shape or form already DO give back to Miami.
If you add up what U of Miami alum give back to the program, I promise you it dwarves what other school's alum give back to their respective programs.
There is no college football 'family' like the one at Miami and it's pretty bush league to knock these guys for not giving back more when many of them give six to seven figures a year.
NFL careers aren't that long for most of these guys and all of them aren't high paid superstars. How many more years are Ken Dorsey, Buck Ortega, Darrell McClover, Brett Romberg, Rashad Butler, etc. collecting a check? If you're making $445K a year, after taxes what are they really going to give back to the program? The clock is ticking for guys like that. They need every dime they're gonna make.
Clinton Portis. Edgerrin James. Guys like that give back and give back a ton.
TampaGator
· 9 months ago
Sweet bettina, son....
...you're wrong on so many points, I don't even know where to begin.
1. Let's start with UM's "shoe string" budget--it's $60,000,000.00; that's $25M less than UF's '08, sure, but only about $9Mil less than UF's in '06 (call it dividends on 2 NC's in 3 years).
2. UAA (U(F)AA) is a private non-profit organization founded in 1929. Although a "non-profit" for IRS purposes, it is very profitable and self-sustatining. It has donated over $40 mil to UF over the last 15 years or so. Get it? The money flows from UAA to UF; not from UF to UAA. In other words...NO!!!--the Gators do not depend on, rely on, or othewise "use" Florida Tax dollars; they help alleviate the school's operating bugdet by contributing to the income side of the equation.
In other words, UAA SAVES Florida Tax dollars.
b/t/w: I mentioned the the year it was established, because it is historically significant. The UAA was founded AFTER the stock market crash that ushered in the Great Depression. When they set out to break ground for the new stadium, the State was too broke to help out, due to the dpression, so a private entity was formed to raise the funds. "...$187,000.00, 120 men, and 87 mules..." built the original structure for the stadium known as "Florida Field", later renamed Ben Hill Griffin Stadium AT FL Field, due to Mr. Griffin's PRIVATE contributions (the original sturcture remains; the additons have been added to it).
Private money, chief. NOT tax dollars.
B/T/W: The Orange Bowl was built with tax dollars, buddy--albeit City of Miami tax money, rather than St/FL's....and, just for kicks: FSU's BB field at Doak-Cambell, required FL tax dollars.
Three: Miami's budget is hurting, because the City of Miami, South Florida, and all those proud members of Cane Nation--DON'T SUPPORT THEIR TEAM!!! Watching Miami FB this year was excrutiating. Why? Because of all the ORANGE seats of DOLPHIN STADIUM--which were not covered up by people. ( What an embarrasment--though I saw that one coming a mile away, when they crumbled the OB). In other words, Miami FB sucks, because Miami's fans suck--out loud!!
Four: Coker was a solid coach; his recruiting classes were solid. In fact, he did what Butch Davis could NOT do, with Davis' players; take over the edge (frankly, IMO, the '00 class was better than the '01 class; they had Dan Morgan, among others; yet Davis couldn't seal the deal, while Coker was able to). UM got what it wanted; they got what they deserved....and contrary to your supposition, we (outsiders/rivals) are laughing our asses off, as UM tries try to re-build its program from the rubble they made of it, all by their lonesome--not wishing UM would've kept Coker.... And the most entertaining part? The "...If you can't blame George Bush, blame Larry Coker...." mentality that dominates at UM!
Five: Randy Shannon is going no where, but slowly out the door. Your blind faith in Shannon is commendable--but ill placed. You mock Coker's experience (only HC of a HS); while dismissing his accomplishments (NC on his resume, 80% winning...), then apply no such scruting to Shannon. What's his experience?
Why does Coker get chastized for Miami getting lit up like a Christmas tree against LSU, and all those other horrible losses suffered on his clock, but not his defensive coordinator at the time (Randy Shannon)? Can you say...."double standard?"
R. Shannon is HC at Miami for 2 simple reasons: 1, so he wouldn't be DC for someone else; and 2, because he's CHEAP.
I could go on, but I'll just leave it at that....
GO GATORS!!
War_Eagle_Atlanta
· 9 months ago
With Miami's athletic budget at $60M and only 9,000 students, that's $6666 per student. Florida's budget is $85M with 51,000 students, or $1666 per...
You guys better pick up the pace...
TampaGator
· 9 months ago
UF's students have to work for their money; Miami's just have to ask for their Trustee for a disbursement (or ask thier mumums and Daddies).
Furthermore, there are 4+ million people in the greater Miami area (i.e.--less than 1 hour driving time from Dolphin stadium (or the OB; take your pick)); there are less than 1/4 million within same driving distance from Florida Field.
Why are so many more people willing to drive so much further to catch a Gator game--even in a bad year--than are willing to catch a 'cane game, in a great year???
Two words: Fan Loyalty.
GO GATORS!!
Wardboy3
· 9 months ago
Damn...I was trying to be nice to him. :)
I was expecting you to throw that last game at the Orange Bowl out there...but I guess that would be too mean.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Strong argument regarding the budget, Gator. A few areas you're off, though:
The Orange Bowl wasn't built for the University of Miami. It was built as a football stadium to be used by the city. The Canes eventually played there, but Burdine Stadium isn't to UM what The Swamp is to UF -- a football stadium built on a college campus.
You also miss the point regarding Miami fans and alum. Miami has 9,000 undergrads and gets anywhere from 35,000-65,000 in the stands. Do the math. That's stellar fan support.
Again, Miami is a private school. Small student body. Big time city/not a college town. Full of transplants and alum of other universities. Again, more UF and FSU alum in Miami than UM alum.
Many locals adopted The U as their college and root for the Canes the way they do the Dolphins. That said, how many Miami natives are there these days, versus transplants with loyalties elsewhere? They don't have the same ties to the program an alum or lifelong fan does -- nor should they be expected to.
As for empty seats, what'd you see "coming a mile away"? Please. Miami had 31,000 in the stands during the 2001 title run when Temple came to town. Miami isn't Gainesville. The entertainment dollar goes a wee bit further than football on Saturday. I lived in Gainesville for two years and was bored to tears.
Your comments on Coker versus Davis are absolutely moronic.
In 2000 Miami lost an early season game at Washington by six points and went 11-1 on the year. It was Ken Dorsey's first road trip and fifth career start.
Miami went on to beat #1 Florida State, #2 Virginia Tech and #7 Florida. A year later the BCS changes its rule regarding the weight of head-to-head competition, which would've put 2000 Miami in the title game against Oklahoma, instead of the Florida State team they already beat.
Coker almost blew Miami's final two games, needing a miracle at Boston College and a dropped two-point conversion at Virginia Tech. Davis' Canes dropped #1, #2 and #7 in 2000. Much rougher road and more impressive wins.
You outsiders/rivals were laughing your asses off this time ten years ago and we saw how that played out. You were also talking the same garbage about Butch Davis that you are about Randy Shannon. First time head coach with Miami ties. Defensive minded guy who couldn't manage a game, but could recruit. Y'all stuck a fork in Miami and thought UCF would be the new third state power.
Once the talent returned, Miami dominated. We'll see how far Miami rebounds, but the talent level will be too great by 2010 to not have the Canes back on the map. You're a fool if you think otherwise.
My "blind faith" in Shannon? Please. I've followed this program my entire life and I've forgotten more about Shannon than you'd know in ten lifetimes.
Larry Coker was a first time clown who inherited the best team in Miami history. He went 35-3 with Davis' talent and from that point, 25-12. His teams got worse as time marched on and he proved he wasn't head coaching material. You quote his winning percentage, but again I ask if this guy is such a gem, why has he been on his ass in the booth since 2007 and how come he's begging for a gig with a nobody university?
Conversely, Randy Shannon inherited the worst Miami team since the late 70s. Schnellenberger. Johnson. Erickson. Davis. All left for greener pastures and better gigs. Coker was the first Miami coach fired since Carl Selmer three decades earlier.
You seem like a fairly knowledgeable individual. Do the math. Look at the decline that happened on Coker's watch. Look at the inability to recruit/develop talent, as well as the inability to build a staff. Miami didn't get bad overnight and won't be rebuilt overnight.
Shannon has reeled in two very solid classes and finally has what looks like the best coaching staff of his short tenure. Three years into this, Shannon should make some strides... That said, 1-2 more classes are needed before Miami is "back".
Enjoy you run, sweetie. College football is cyclical and what goes up always comes down. We've seen it before and we'll see it again.
TampaGator
· 9 months ago
Cane305:
Every major CFB following, including Gators and canes, is comprised of more non-students/alumni than students and alums. In maimi's case, most of Cane Nation is in So Fla--within an hour's drive. Yet even after 5 NC's in the last 25 years, all that good will built up, they can't motivate a consistent attendance to the stadium--among a 4+ mil pop. base. Pathetic.
...and please spare me the "...so much to do in Miami" excuse. Miami is part of the state of FL; add what to do in Miami to everything else to do in FLorida, and that's what the Gators compete with, PLUS, additional drive time.
b/t/w: you alluded to it--if not stepped right in it--but many Gators make the trek from Miami to G'ville to catch a Gator FB game. That's almost 6 hours of driving. (...LOYALTY....).
As for enjoying the run; of course we will, and we're not naive enough to think it will last forever. Here's the bottom line though: when UF becomes mediocre again, the Swamp will be filled with LOYAL Gators supporting their team...
...and even IF Miami does make it back, they'll still be relying on marquee opponents to sell out their (rented) home stadium.
2 questions for you:
1.) "Burdine Stadium"? Is that the newest name for Joe Robbie/Dolphin Stadium? Hadn't heard it, if it is [EDIT: DON'T WORRY; I LOOKED IT UP].
2.) Why would Larry Coker chop off his big toe in the middle of a marathon????? (i.e.--cut Art Kehoe, et. al., from his staff)
GO GATORS!!
Wardboy3
· 9 months ago
I give you on the Buck Ortega not giving back but if you take the top 10 earners in 2008 & they donated just 1% it would still be $1.16 million. If they gave 5% $5.8 million.
Why is it on former players to give back? It is not necessarily on players to give back but if the U wants to claim that they are "family" at the U (just like what you said) and the "family" is starting to struggle, then why not?
You stated above that Shannon can't get the staff that he wants "due to Miami's financial situation", and they are busing it to Tampa & Orlando to save money.
Just from my point of view...and my point of view ONLY...if I was SO PROUD of being from the U, I could get some of my "family" members who are doing OK and scramble up some $ to give back to the university that helped me get into the position that I am in to earn the paycheck that i currently make. Do you not think if the top 10 earners in the NFL gave just 5% of their 2008 income, which would be $5.8 million, that Shannon would be able to assemble the staff he wanted AND they would still be able to take the charters?
When you respond back to what I said earlier with a comment like this:"Florida has an athletic budget upwards of $85,000,000 this year. Can you even comprehend that number? Every Miami player in the NFL could donate his entire annual salary and it still wouldn't reach half that." I have to question everything you say b/c half of $85 million is $42.5 million and that amount was surpassed by just Bryant McKinnie, Ray Lewis, & Reggie Wayne. And in case you couldn't figure it out all of the Miami players 2008 salary is 2.3 times LARGER than Floridas budget.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
Champ, when you're out there making several million a year and you're donating a big chunk of it back to your alma mater, get back to me. Don't give me some b.s. hypothetical about what you WOULD do IF you had the cash. Please.
My off the cuff comment about Miami's NFLers salaries was off base, but yours is equally as ignorant. Who are you to determine how much someone SHOULD donate when you know nothing about their personal life, family situation/helping family members, financial woes, bad investments, etc. Don't talk about what you "would" do. Talk about what you DO do.
Wardboy3
· 9 months ago
I see you have to nothing to come back on that is why once again you just have to say that I am the ignorant one. Good one?!?! :|
You tried to make the arguement that there isn't any money when there is. Your arguement is weak.
U.of S.C.1978
· 9 months ago
There seem to be no UTSA football fans here, That's probably because they don't even have a TEAM, and will not until 2011. I'll be their advocate. C'mon guys, the Roadrunners don't even have a football team yet!!! Who could be better than any Coach with national name recognition, to get the program off the ground? I would like to see Coach Coker back in the game. I can see where a ground up opportunity would interest him.
Canes305
· 9 months ago
I see where the opp would interest Coker, but you're missing my point. If the guy is worth his weight, why is HE contacting UTSA and throwing his hat in the ring? Why aren't schools contacting him? Think of how many smaller jobs have opened the past few years and no one even attempted to call Larry Coker, when he's spent the past few years in the ESPN U booth basically lobbying for any head coaching gig, yet never getting the call?
Tells you all you need to know. Dude was a hack head coach, but a pretty decent offensive coordinator. His 35-3 to 25-12 run was all anyone needed to see.
U.of S.C.1978
· 9 months ago
I suspect a lot of small schools would never have considered Coker, because they would not have expected him to be interested. You know you are biased. You also can't be sure that he has not been contacted in the past. One or two "not interested"s, could have stopped others from asking.
."I knew that I wanted to get back in coaching after I left Miami," Coker told the Express-News. "But it would have to be the right opportunity at a school with the right leadership. I see that at UTSA. I think it's a school with great potential. Another plus is that San Antonio is a great city."
CaneResurrection
· 9 months ago
"You outsiders/rivals were laughing your asses off this time ten years ago and we saw how that played out. You were also talking the same garbage about Butch Davis that you are about Randy Shannon. First time head coach with Miami ties. Defensive minded guy who couldn't manage a game, but could recruit. Y'all stuck a fork in Miami and thought UCF would be the new third state power.
Once the talent returned, Miami dominated. We'll see how far Miami rebounds, but the talent level will be too great by 2010 to not have the Canes back on the map. You're a fool if you think otherwise. "
These Florida fans are about to find out. Me and my buddy were just talking about this yesterday. He's an FSU fan, and we were saying how much college football has changed since our two schools were dominating every year. NOBODY WILL DOMINATE EVERY YEAR ANYMORE. Those days are over. Yes, UF has one 2 in three years, but had a 3 or 4 loos season sandwiched in there. A team can be consistently good year in and year out, but can't dominate every single year. UF will have another stellar year this year, but next year will tell a tale. Tebow will be gone, and it will seriously hurt the Gators. It's no knock on Meyer's ability, no matter how good of a recruiter you are, YOU DON'T JUST REPLACE A TIM TEBOW. There's just not another one out there. We'll be on the upswing while UF is scrambling to replace the greatest player in their programs history.
As far as Coker is concerned, and the talk of him being out Ron Zook. UF would have benn successful with Zook, perhaps just as successful. Meyer's first NC came with Zooks players. UF fans, remember Chris Leak? Why do y'all try to airbrush him from history? That first NC was his, more so than Tebow's. Who's to say that Zook couldn't do the same thing if he had Tebow. Ain't he doing the same thing on a lesser scale with Juice Williams? This is not a knock on Meyer, he is a hell of a coach. I just thinknZook and Leak get a raw deal. Coker destroyed the program. Yes he had highly ranked recrruiting classes, lots of 4 and 5 star players from all over the country. But remember, a 3 star from Florida equals a 5 star from, say Kansas. That's how every coach since Schnellenbuger has done it, until Coker. Santana Moss caught one pass as a senior in high school, but Davis recognized a ballplayer when he saw one, Coker didn't. All Coker saw was rankings. 6'3 210 lbs. makes a 5 star wideout, but it don't make a ballplayer. Meyer knows this, he has an eye for talent, but like I said before, we'll see how this plays out without Tebow. He is the difference between UF and the rest of the SEC, they'll catch up once he's gone.
Sorry, I know i got to rambling.
Wardboy3
· 9 months ago
I don't know of many people who compare Shannon to Davis. I sure didn't. For one thing the situtation is totally different. When Davis came in Miami was on probation & had reduced scholarships...Shannon is not facing that battle
CaneResurrection
· 9 months ago
It is a different situation, but Shannon is following the same blueprint. The blueprint that Coker abandoned and landed us in the shape we were in 3 years ago.
TampaGator
· 9 months ago
"...UF fans, remember Chris Leak? Why do y'all try to airbrush him from history?..."
Kindly refrain from imputing your own ignorance to UF. Gator Nation is, has been, and always will be, deeply grateful to Chris Leak for his contribution to our FB program. Where the hell you get this ridiculous notion that he's being "airbrushed" or whatever, is beyond comprehension; just some BS concoction by Gator haters. Leak is beloved in Gator Nation. Deal with it.
As for Zook winning a NC--right. Gators on his watch more often times than not, sputtered out by the end of the game. He was and is a players' coach; doesn't have the stomach to push his players to get the most out of them, and therefore doesn't have it in him to coach a champion. I liked Zook alot, but truth is truth. Meyer has 2 nc's in 3 years, because he gets the most out of his players. Zook is great at getting talented players to sign on, but not at getting them to play to their potential.
Coker may not be Butch Davis, but then neither is Randy Shannon. RS, like Zook, is a player's coach. B/t/w: Coker did one thing that Davis did not; he sealed the deal.
In fact, he sealed the deal 1.99 times! ;)
GO GATORS!!
CaneResurrection
· 9 months ago
The Canes out talented the opposition during Cokers first two years. He was outcoached in the OSU game, and we still damn near won that one. How's Tressel done against the speed of southern teams since? Shannon is a players coach in the area of players can come to him with their problems, but Shannon does not put up with the bullshit. Shannon's input on the FIU brawl was to kick every player involved off of the team. It was Coker who allowed them to stay.
Every team has their ignorant fans (which really makes up the majority), Florida is no different. Actually, UGA leads the nation in that area. Go to ESPN's blog and tell me there aren't alot of Gator fans who act like Leak didn't exist. I've seen enough of your posts to know you don't fall in that category, but all I hear about Tebow is HE won 2 NC's. That first one belonged to Leak. I seem to remember ALOT of backlash against Leak when Tebow came on board. Leak was the better man for the starting job when Tebow was a freshman. tebow was perfect at the time for what he was brought in to do.... run behind the right guard. Never quite figured out how nobody else caught on.
I didn't say Zook was as good a coach as Meyer, just asaying it's hard not to be successful with a Tebow in the backfield.
TampaGator
· 9 months ago
Can/Res:
Backlash? Maybe a slight undercurrent, but hardly a backlash. Leak played conservatively; threw the ball out of bounds to avoid INT's, slid to avoid getting hit, things like that. Tebow came at opponents like a bull. That would motivate any croud--especially coming from a freshmen. That doesn't translate into distrust of Leak though; just excitement about the new guy, which has obviously panned out. I don't know anything about the posters on ESPN's blog, but the talk among the Gator faithful, has always been positive towards Leak, in my experience.
Re. Zook--no you didn't say he was as good a coach as Meyer; but you did suggest that Zook could have won a NC, based on the fact that Meyer did. That's just naive, and betrays "cane spoiliation" (my word for the phonomenum that b/c Miami won 5 NC's since '83, canes think NC's grow on trees, and that if you don't win one in a matter of 3 years, you suck). The rest of us know otherwise. NC's are a bitch to come by.
That '06 NC in particular was a patchwork of miracles--produced by desire and opportunity meeting several times. 3 blocked kicks v. SC in particular come to mind; a fumble by LSU at the end of the 1st half that changed to tone of the game; some other breaks. Zook's teams blow those opp's. No question. We probably don't even get those chances. Ergo, no NC. As for this year? Too speculative, since it had all Meyer's players.
Re. OSU: That was a great OSU team with Maurice--whatever his name is--and the 'canes lost McGahee with a lot of FB left in the game.
...and despite losing Willis, for 4 long seconds, Larry Coker had won his second NC in as many years at the helm, and had managed to preserve his winning streak.
All Comments
Due to poor recruiting, an inability to develop talent and an inability to put together a solid staff, Coker's next three years produced a 25-12 record... without sniffing the BCS. Instead Miami won a Peach Bowl (Florida), got handled in another (LSU) and won a Blue Turf Bowl in Idaho.
If Coker got such a 'raw deal' how come this guy's phone has rang since Miami gave him the boot? How come he has to send his resume to UTSA and is basically lobbying for the job at the University of Nowheresville? If this guy was a good coach, he wouldn't be going on season three in the booth.
Coker isn't a tenth of the coach Ron Zook is. Please. Zook could recruit and develop talent and if given more time at Florida, could've been successful. Not Meyer successful, but successful. Coker never could've gone to Illinois and delivered a Rose Bowl berth. No chance.
Coker is a nice guy, but he's a bum of a head coach. He got the Miami job by default... which would've been Greg Schiano's, if he didn't bolt for Rutgers a month before Davis quit. Coker's only head coaching experience was at some podunk Oklahoma high school in the 70s. He was given the keys to a Ferrari F430 when his only driving experience was jump starting a Yugo every morning.
No mystery why it will take Randy Shannon 4-5 years to fully clean up this mess. Go back and check out those 2004-2006 recruiting classes at Miami and tell me again that Coker got a 'raw deal'.
The only people who feel this are Miami haters who want to see the Canes remain down, a la the Bobby Bowden situation in Tallahassee and the way Nole haters want to see that old man run that program into the dirt for another ten years.
www.allCanesBlog.com
I read that portion on your blog where they were talking with Tuberville about the Miami program and the particulars of recruiting. If Shannon doesn't work out, do you think any Cane fans might be interested having Tubs return as HC?
That is entirely my 'wild guess' opinion. Having said that, I absolutely hate it when one of my teams' coaches has to leave. I wanted Coker to right the ship at Miami after the disastrous Peach Bowl game vs. LSU and hoped those changes would do the trick. Sadly, when all was said and done, it was clear that he wasn't the guy to do that.
I think Coker is the "anti-Zook" personally. They are on polar opposite ends of the scale when it comes to their strengths and weaknesses. Coker will do just fine at a smaller school I believe...but as you know probably better than I do, coaching at The U is a totally different bird than it is anywhere else...
gosu27 -- Recruiting rankings are misleading and at Miami, they really don't matter. The U has always been about getting the 'right' players, not just the highly-touted ones. Ed Reed was an under the radar kid from Louisiana. FSU was his dream school, but they didn't want him. He chose Miami over Tulane. Santana Moss was a local Miami product who came to The U on a track scholarship. Clinton Portis left Gainesville for Miami because Butch Davis saw him a a RB but Steve Spurrier wanted to move him to CB.
Coker didn't (1) have the ability to sniff out Miami-caliber talent, (2) didn't know how to recruit his own backyard, (3) didn't have in roads with Miami high school coaches and (4) didn't know how to recruit position-wise. Year after year he didn't address needs. Between 2001-2006, Coker never recruited ONE quarterback who panned out. He had about four defect at the last minute, going elsewhere and with no back up plan.
Coker didn't even have a recruiting coordinator on board during his six-year run. Further proof how in over his head he was from day one. He was able to land some highly-ranked kids, but again, they never panned out.
Willie Williams was a risk from the get go. Five-star wideout Ryan Moore turned into a head case that never reached his potential under Country Club Larry. Five-star Aikeem Jolla never reached his potential either, transferring to New Mexico State his final year. Lance Leggett, another five-star that fizzled.
Coker promoted Rob Chudzinski to OC in 2001, which worked out... but he failed miserably with his next few hires. Dan Werner was promoted from within and was a bust. Look as his resume. He was never Miami OC material, but Larry, in over his head as head coach, had no clue how to conduct a search for a quality OC.
When Werner fizzled, the washed up Rich Olson was brought on board, as the university's choice and Coker brought in buddy Todd Berry as co-OC and QB coach. Olson and Berry failed as well.
Shannon didn't fare well with Patrick Nix, but Nix was his fifth choice at OC and he wasn't afraid to can him after two years of mediocrity. Mark Whipple is on board now and he is definitely Shannon's guy and second choice, after Dirk Koetter turned down the opp again.
Shannon is in the mold of Butch Davis. Both are defensive minded guys with Miami ties and this was their first head coaching gig. Davis was 43 when he took over and Shannon was 41. Both know the program, know the culture and realize the importance of locking down South Florida recruiting-wise. Since Shannon got on board, both Urban Meyer and Bobby Bowden have failed to recruit Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties the way they did when Coker was in charge.
Things are getting back to normal at The U. 2009 will be a rough year, due to the schedule, but by 2010 you'll see that Miami is 'back'. Only then will outsiders realize what a cancer to the program Larry Coker was.
Coker almost blew it in 2001 with the best college team in history (close calls at Boston College and Virginia Tech) and he was outcoached against Ohio State, even though he had Ken Dorsey, Kellen Winslow II, Andre Johnson, Willis McGahee and Roscoe Parrish on offense.
His legend grew because of a 24-0 start, but once it was his team and his players, we saw what a fraud Coker was. It took a few years for things to fall apart completely and it'll take Shannon the same amount of time to get it right again.
www.allCanesBlog.com
You either "get it" or you don't "get it". Coker didn't "get it". He was in over his head with that job from day one. He barely was able to maintain over that span, let alone grow the program. Each year he was on board, there was a decline. In 2001 Miami was able to outtalent the competition, even with poor coaching. That was no longer the case as the years went on. Inferior coaching caught up with Coker.
To recruit successfully at Miami you need (1) to lock up the tri-city area and keep local talent home, (2) you need a recruiting coordinator to head up the task that is recruiting and (3) you need to address the program's needs, knowing what to stockpile each year.
Shannon has his thumb on the pulse. He has South Florida on lockdown, he has a stellar staff and he knows who and what to go after. Last year was about linebackers and receivers. This year was offensive lineman and cornerbacks. He knows how to cherry pick top national talent, but also can identify under the radar kids. Look at three-star Adawale Ojomo, who had a very solid freshman campaign last year.
I started getting wary in 2002 when another talented Miami team seemed to be underachieving. Close games against Rutgers and Pittsburgh. Giving up 45 in the finale against Virginia Tech. The Canes didn't look focused, which is on the coaching staff. Coker simply didn't have the kids ready. They were on autopilot in '01 and Ed Reed was coaching the team more than Larry C.
Coker officially lost me with the 2003 Fiesta Bowl 'loss' against Ohio State. Granted the Buckeyes were a gritty bunch and played solid defense, Coker got the pants coached off him by Jim Tressel -- who has since been exposed over the years by faster, more athletic teams.
How Miami was only able to score 14 points in 59:59 of football with Ken Dorsey, Kellen Winslow II, Andre Johnson, Willis McGahee and Roscoe Parrish on offense... It was as if Coker had no game plan and though the team would just will themselves to another win. Even more frustrating, his lack of a reaction when Terry Porter threw that bogus flag.
Back-to-back national championships were on the line and a 35-game win streak.... and old man looks like a deer in headlights.
I started losing faith in Coker after the Fiesta Bowl and officially knew Miami was screwed in fall 2003. After a 31-7 loss at Virginia Tech, Miami faceplanted the following week -- at home -- to an average Tennessee team, 10-6.
Up to that point, the last team anyone ever wanted to play was Miami the week after a loss -- in the Orange Bowl, no less. That loss was an abortion. The team was flat, which showed me they didn't respect their coach and he couldn't get them past the loss -- their first regular season "L" in over three years.
The 10-6 loss to Tennessee was the first time Miami hadn't scored a touchdown at home since the 1984 season. Even during the probation years (late 90s) against good Florida State teams (1996, 1998) Miami could still muster up a few TDs.... yet against a sub par UT team the week after a loss, the Canes were flat.
I was 1000% done with Coker in November 2003.
Some folk compare him to Zook because he recruits well but hasn't won immediately. Like I said before, I think he's more in the mold of a Butch Davis. This is new to him and he's learning on the job. He's also not afraid to seek wise counsel, talking often with Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells as his mentors. He also talks with Pete Carroll regarding how to assemble a quality staff.
Shannon can recruit and is reloading the talent. The only thing he hasn't done is assemble the staff he wants, due to Miami's financial situation as a private school. I read last week that Florida's athletic budget for this upcoming season is upwards of $85M while Miami stated last week that they'll bus it to Tampa and Orlando this fall, canceling chartered flights to save money. Different ball game when you don't have big time boosters and state funding.
Mark Whipple is on board to run the offense and John Lovett is the new defensive coordinator -- the third in three years for Randy.
A lesser coach could've stuck by a Tim Walton or Patrick Nix, but Shannon quickly realized that neither were going to get it done and cut ties with both. He's on a mission to rebuild and get it right. It's his mission to get Miami back to where it belongs. Randy has a ring as a player, one as a grad assistant and one as a DC. He knows the demands and what it takes to succeed at Miami. By 2010 you'll see a Miami team more reminiscent to the ones you saw earlier this decade.
As far as Tubs goes, I...just don't know. I mean I really don't know. His resume is just fine and he knows his way around Coral Gables.
Eh, I guess I've just developed a leeriness towards hiring 'hand-me-down' coaches; I'd much rather take a chance on an up-and-coming Coordinator, or a HC from a successful smaller school. For every Saban, there's three Spurriers...
No one knows The U better than Randy Shannon. There's a formula regarding bringing the Canes back and he knows that better than anyone. He learned it from Jimmy Johnson and Butch Davis. He's been knee-deep in this program for 20+ years now.
I fully agree regarding up and comers. Shannon has a hunger that a lot of other guys wouldn't have. This is his first job and it's his dream job. He's a Miami guy and will work tirelessly to bring this program back. He's not on board to use Miami as some stepping stone. This is his Graceland. He won't stop until he gets it right. Based on some flashes of greatness last year, Miami isn't too far off. The depth hasn't quite returned, but when the Canes were 'on' last year you saw where this thing will be a few years from now.
If Randy gets the job done, there's no reason he can't have Miami doing what Southern Cal is doing out west. The programs are mirror images of each other.
Thirty years ago Howard Schnellenberger said he wanted Miami to be the USC of the east. Earlier this decade Pete Carroll said he wanted USC to be the Miami of the west. These days, the pendulum has swung again and it's Shannon who is emulating what USC is doing... same way Howard did three decades ago.
If every player from the U that is in the NFL donated 5% of his 2008 salary that would be more than $10 million being donated to the school.
And that is just off of their 2008 salary. Just imagine if the former players did something like that every year.
Hell even if it was just 1% it would still be more than $2 million.
Florida has an athletic budget upwards of $85,000,000 this year. Can you even comprehend that number? Every Miami player in the NFL could donate his entire annual salary and it still wouldn't reach half that.
Miami is a private school with upwards of 9,000 undergrads. Florida is a state school with about 50,000 undergrads. Former Miami players give back better than any other alum in the country. Florida has a ridiculous amount of money to burn as the big state power and has one of the largest athletic budgets in the country.
The fact Miami has been able to do what it's done these past few decades on a shoestring budget and without the funding or facilities that other programs have -- it's mindboggling.
If you have 9,000 undergrads and are getting 36K for UNC, 46K for VTech and 65K for FSU.... that's anywhere from 4x to 7x the student body.
There are more Florida and Florida State alum in Dade and Broward Counties than there are Miami alum. Most Miami alum isn't from Miami and doesn't stick around after graduation and most Miami fans are transplants to the city who have adopted the team the same way they did the Dolphins. They don't have the same ties to the program one would as a proud alum.
If Florida has 50K undergrads and packs about 90K in the Swamp on a Saturday and Miami has 9K undergrads and is getting upwards of 40K to 65K fans in the stands on Saturday, can anyone REALLY say that there are attendance issues at Miami? Please. For a small private school with a small student body, The U is very well represented at home in fall.
Problem is when you're as successful as The U, so many ignorant outsiders are clueless. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to over the years that are shocked to (1) find out The U is a private school and (2) that the student body is as small as it is.
Your argument that Miami is so small a school is exactly why I'd argue that they have the biggest bandwagon in all of CFB--save Notre Dame, of course. But if their fans aren't in the socio-economic class that buys tickets, perhaps a cozier on-campus facility that seats around 40,000 might be a better fit...
You're way off on your enrollment numbers for UNC, FSU and VT. You made me look.
I understand the undergrads & so on & so forth but to claim there is no money is just BS.
Player Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary
McKinnie, Bryant $3,250,000 $13,500,000 $500,000 $17,250,000
Wayne, Reggie $3,500,000 $12,500,000 $660,000 $16,660,000
Lewis, Ray $6,500,000 $10,000,000 $240 $16,500,240
Portis, Clinton $605,000 $9,325,500 $504,440 $10,434,940
McGahee, Willis $605,000 $7,500,000 $600 $8,105,600
Reed, Ed $605,000 $7,500,000 $240 $8,105,240
James, Edgerrin $5,000,000 $7,000,000 $250,840 $12,250,840
Johnson, Andre $2,825,000 $6,500,000 $1,850,000 $11,175,000
Gore, Frank $2,562,000 $6,500,000 $100,000 $9,162,000
Winston, Eric $445,000 $6,000,000 $6,720 $6,451,720
Hester, Devin $445,000 $5,000,000 $47,500 $5,492,500
Lewis, Damione $730,000 $3,250,000 $100,000 $4,080,000
Shockey, Jeremy $1,925,000 $3,000,000 $500,000 $5,425,000
Wilfork, Vince $1,400,000 $3,000,000 $4,680 $4,404,680
Beason, Jon $870,000 $3,000,000 $247,900 $4,117,900
Myers, Chris $850,000 $3,000,000 $6,720 $3,856,720
Phillips, Kenny $295,000 $2,530,000 $555,000 $3,380,000
Moss, Santana $730,000 $2,520,000 $0 $3,250,000
Carey, Vernon $2,570,000 $2,300,000 $1,360,000 $6,230,000
Buchanon, Phillip $1,905,000 $2,000,000 $253,360 $4,158,360
McIntosh, Rocky $445,000 $1,820,000 $1,165,000 $3,430,000
Campbell, Calais $295,000 $1,200,000 $0 $1,495,000
Parrish, Roscoe $520,000 $1,100,000 $3,451,080 $5,071,080
Franks, Bubba $730,000 $795,000 $125,000 $1,650,000
Feagles, Jeff $1,000,000 $725,000 $103,480 $1,828,480
Moss, Sinorice $445,000 $700,000 $398,240 $1,543,240
Gooden, Tavares $295,000 $610,100 $0 $905,100
Dorsey, Ken $605,000 $500,000 $180,000 $1,285,000
Meriweather, Brandon $370,000 $500,000 $1,029,200 $1,899,200
Butler, Rashad $445,000 $479,750 $6,720 $931,470
Williams, Leon $445,000 $450,000 $1,920 $896,920
Atkins, Baraka $370,000 $432,500 $5,160 $807,660
Olsen, Greg $370,000 $250,000 $683,518 $1,303,518
McClover, Darrell $520,000 $75,000 $4,800 $599,800
Romberg, Brett $605,000 $40,000 $4,680 $649,680
Vilma, Jonathan $4,097,500 $0 $100,000 $4,197,500
Winslow, Kellen $4,000,000 $0 $1,607,500 $5,607,500
Rolle, Antrel $1,210,000 $0 $1,560 $1,211,560
McDougle, Jerome $1,000,000 $0 $0 $1,000,000
Williams, D.J. $850,000 $0 $25,000 $875,000
Webster, Nate $780,000 $0 $650,000 $1,430,000
Joseph, William $705,000 $0 $245,000 $950,000
Davenport, Najeh $605,000 $0 $0 $605,000
Jackson, James $540,000 $0 $0 $540,000
Jennings, Kelly $445,000 $0 $295,160 $740,160
Berlin, Brock $370,000 $0 $5,160 $375,160
Thomas, Santonio $370,000 $0 $0 $370,000
Ortega, Buck $295,000 $0 $0 $295,000
If you add up what U of Miami alum give back to the program, I promise you it dwarves what other school's alum give back to their respective programs.
There is no college football 'family' like the one at Miami and it's pretty bush league to knock these guys for not giving back more when many of them give six to seven figures a year.
NFL careers aren't that long for most of these guys and all of them aren't high paid superstars. How many more years are Ken Dorsey, Buck Ortega, Darrell McClover, Brett Romberg, Rashad Butler, etc. collecting a check? If you're making $445K a year, after taxes what are they really going to give back to the program? The clock is ticking for guys like that. They need every dime they're gonna make.
Clinton Portis. Edgerrin James. Guys like that give back and give back a ton.
...you're wrong on so many points, I don't even know where to begin.
1. Let's start with UM's "shoe string" budget--it's $60,000,000.00; that's $25M less than UF's '08, sure, but only about $9Mil less than UF's in '06 (call it dividends on 2 NC's in 3 years).
2. UAA (U(F)AA) is a private non-profit organization founded in 1929. Although a "non-profit" for IRS purposes, it is very profitable and self-sustatining. It has donated over $40 mil to UF over the last 15 years or so. Get it? The money flows from UAA to UF; not from UF to UAA. In other words...NO!!!--the Gators do not depend on, rely on, or othewise "use" Florida Tax dollars; they help alleviate the school's operating bugdet by contributing to the income side of the equation.
In other words, UAA SAVES Florida Tax dollars.
b/t/w: I mentioned the the year it was established, because it is historically significant. The UAA was founded AFTER the stock market crash that ushered in the Great Depression. When they set out to break ground for the new stadium, the State was too broke to help out, due to the dpression, so a private entity was formed to raise the funds. "...$187,000.00, 120 men, and 87 mules..." built the original structure for the stadium known as "Florida Field", later renamed Ben Hill Griffin Stadium AT FL Field, due to Mr. Griffin's PRIVATE contributions (the original sturcture remains; the additons have been added to it).
Private money, chief. NOT tax dollars.
B/T/W: The Orange Bowl was built with tax dollars, buddy--albeit City of Miami tax money, rather than St/FL's....and, just for kicks: FSU's BB field at Doak-Cambell, required FL tax dollars.
Three: Miami's budget is hurting, because the City of Miami, South Florida, and all those proud members of Cane Nation--DON'T SUPPORT THEIR TEAM!!! Watching Miami FB this year was excrutiating. Why? Because of all the ORANGE seats of DOLPHIN STADIUM--which were not covered up by people. ( What an embarrasment--though I saw that one coming a mile away, when they crumbled the OB). In other words, Miami FB sucks, because Miami's fans suck--out loud!!
Four: Coker was a solid coach; his recruiting classes were solid. In fact, he did what Butch Davis could NOT do, with Davis' players; take over the edge (frankly, IMO, the '00 class was better than the '01 class; they had Dan Morgan, among others; yet Davis couldn't seal the deal, while Coker was able to). UM got what it wanted; they got what they deserved....and contrary to your supposition, we (outsiders/rivals) are laughing our asses off, as UM tries try to re-build its program from the rubble they made of it, all by their lonesome--not wishing UM would've kept Coker.... And the most entertaining part? The "...If you can't blame George Bush, blame Larry Coker...." mentality that dominates at UM!
Five: Randy Shannon is going no where, but slowly out the door. Your blind faith in Shannon is commendable--but ill placed. You mock Coker's experience (only HC of a HS); while dismissing his accomplishments (NC on his resume, 80% winning...), then apply no such scruting to Shannon. What's his experience?
Why does Coker get chastized for Miami getting lit up like a Christmas tree against LSU, and all those other horrible losses suffered on his clock, but not his defensive coordinator at the time (Randy Shannon)? Can you say...."double standard?"
R. Shannon is HC at Miami for 2 simple reasons: 1, so he wouldn't be DC for someone else; and 2, because he's CHEAP.
I could go on, but I'll just leave it at that....
GO GATORS!!
You guys better pick up the pace...
Furthermore, there are 4+ million people in the greater Miami area (i.e.--less than 1 hour driving time from Dolphin stadium (or the OB; take your pick)); there are less than 1/4 million within same driving distance from Florida Field.
Why are so many more people willing to drive so much further to catch a Gator game--even in a bad year--than are willing to catch a 'cane game, in a great year???
Two words: Fan Loyalty.
GO GATORS!!
I was expecting you to throw that last game at the Orange Bowl out there...but I guess that would be too mean.
The Orange Bowl wasn't built for the University of Miami. It was built as a football stadium to be used by the city. The Canes eventually played there, but Burdine Stadium isn't to UM what The Swamp is to UF -- a football stadium built on a college campus.
You also miss the point regarding Miami fans and alum. Miami has 9,000 undergrads and gets anywhere from 35,000-65,000 in the stands. Do the math. That's stellar fan support.
Again, Miami is a private school. Small student body. Big time city/not a college town. Full of transplants and alum of other universities. Again, more UF and FSU alum in Miami than UM alum.
Many locals adopted The U as their college and root for the Canes the way they do the Dolphins. That said, how many Miami natives are there these days, versus transplants with loyalties elsewhere? They don't have the same ties to the program an alum or lifelong fan does -- nor should they be expected to.
As for empty seats, what'd you see "coming a mile away"? Please. Miami had 31,000 in the stands during the 2001 title run when Temple came to town. Miami isn't Gainesville. The entertainment dollar goes a wee bit further than football on Saturday. I lived in Gainesville for two years and was bored to tears.
Your comments on Coker versus Davis are absolutely moronic.
In 2000 Miami lost an early season game at Washington by six points and went 11-1 on the year. It was Ken Dorsey's first road trip and fifth career start.
Miami went on to beat #1 Florida State, #2 Virginia Tech and #7 Florida. A year later the BCS changes its rule regarding the weight of head-to-head competition, which would've put 2000 Miami in the title game against Oklahoma, instead of the Florida State team they already beat.
Coker almost blew Miami's final two games, needing a miracle at Boston College and a dropped two-point conversion at Virginia Tech. Davis' Canes dropped #1, #2 and #7 in 2000. Much rougher road and more impressive wins.
You outsiders/rivals were laughing your asses off this time ten years ago and we saw how that played out. You were also talking the same garbage about Butch Davis that you are about Randy Shannon. First time head coach with Miami ties. Defensive minded guy who couldn't manage a game, but could recruit. Y'all stuck a fork in Miami and thought UCF would be the new third state power.
Once the talent returned, Miami dominated. We'll see how far Miami rebounds, but the talent level will be too great by 2010 to not have the Canes back on the map. You're a fool if you think otherwise.
My "blind faith" in Shannon? Please. I've followed this program my entire life and I've forgotten more about Shannon than you'd know in ten lifetimes.
Larry Coker was a first time clown who inherited the best team in Miami history. He went 35-3 with Davis' talent and from that point, 25-12. His teams got worse as time marched on and he proved he wasn't head coaching material. You quote his winning percentage, but again I ask if this guy is such a gem, why has he been on his ass in the booth since 2007 and how come he's begging for a gig with a nobody university?
Conversely, Randy Shannon inherited the worst Miami team since the late 70s. Schnellenberger. Johnson. Erickson. Davis. All left for greener pastures and better gigs. Coker was the first Miami coach fired since Carl Selmer three decades earlier.
You seem like a fairly knowledgeable individual. Do the math. Look at the decline that happened on Coker's watch. Look at the inability to recruit/develop talent, as well as the inability to build a staff. Miami didn't get bad overnight and won't be rebuilt overnight.
Shannon has reeled in two very solid classes and finally has what looks like the best coaching staff of his short tenure. Three years into this, Shannon should make some strides... That said, 1-2 more classes are needed before Miami is "back".
Enjoy you run, sweetie. College football is cyclical and what goes up always comes down. We've seen it before and we'll see it again.
Every major CFB following, including Gators and canes, is comprised of more non-students/alumni than students and alums. In maimi's case, most of Cane Nation is in So Fla--within an hour's drive. Yet even after 5 NC's in the last 25 years, all that good will built up, they can't motivate a consistent attendance to the stadium--among a 4+ mil pop. base. Pathetic.
...and please spare me the "...so much to do in Miami" excuse. Miami is part of the state of FL; add what to do in Miami to everything else to do in FLorida, and that's what the Gators compete with, PLUS, additional drive time.
b/t/w: you alluded to it--if not stepped right in it--but many Gators make the trek from Miami to G'ville to catch a Gator FB game. That's almost 6 hours of driving. (...LOYALTY....).
As for enjoying the run; of course we will, and we're not naive enough to think it will last forever. Here's the bottom line though: when UF becomes mediocre again, the Swamp will be filled with LOYAL Gators supporting their team...
...and even IF Miami does make it back, they'll still be relying on marquee opponents to sell out their (rented) home stadium.
2 questions for you:
1.) "Burdine Stadium"? Is that the newest name for Joe Robbie/Dolphin Stadium? Hadn't heard it, if it is [EDIT: DON'T WORRY; I LOOKED IT UP].
2.) Why would Larry Coker chop off his big toe in the middle of a marathon????? (i.e.--cut Art Kehoe, et. al., from his staff)
GO GATORS!!
Why is it on former players to give back? It is not necessarily on players to give back but if the U wants to claim that they are "family" at the U (just like what you said) and the "family" is starting to struggle, then why not?
You stated above that Shannon can't get the staff that he wants "due to Miami's financial situation", and they are busing it to Tampa & Orlando to save money.
Just from my point of view...and my point of view ONLY...if I was SO PROUD of being from the U, I could get some of my "family" members who are doing OK and scramble up some $ to give back to the university that helped me get into the position that I am in to earn the paycheck that i currently make. Do you not think if the top 10 earners in the NFL gave just 5% of their 2008 income, which would be $5.8 million, that Shannon would be able to assemble the staff he wanted AND they would still be able to take the charters?
When you respond back to what I said earlier with a comment like this:"Florida has an athletic budget upwards of $85,000,000 this year. Can you even comprehend that number? Every Miami player in the NFL could donate his entire annual salary and it still wouldn't reach half that."
I have to question everything you say b/c half of $85 million is $42.5 million and that amount was surpassed by just Bryant McKinnie, Ray Lewis, & Reggie Wayne. And in case you couldn't figure it out all of the Miami players 2008 salary is 2.3 times LARGER than Floridas budget.
My off the cuff comment about Miami's NFLers salaries was off base, but yours is equally as ignorant. Who are you to determine how much someone SHOULD donate when you know nothing about their personal life, family situation/helping family members, financial woes, bad investments, etc. Don't talk about what you "would" do. Talk about what you DO do.
You tried to make the arguement that there isn't any money when there is. Your arguement is weak.
Tells you all you need to know. Dude was a hack head coach, but a pretty decent offensive coordinator. His 35-3 to 25-12 run was all anyone needed to see.
."I knew that I wanted to get back in coaching after I left Miami," Coker told the Express-News. "But it would have to be the right opportunity at a school with the right leadership. I see that at UTSA. I think it's a school with great potential. Another plus is that San Antonio is a great city."
Once the talent returned, Miami dominated. We'll see how far Miami rebounds, but the talent level will be too great by 2010 to not have the Canes back on the map. You're a fool if you think otherwise. "
These Florida fans are about to find out. Me and my buddy were just talking about this yesterday. He's an FSU fan, and we were saying how much college football has changed since our two schools were dominating every year. NOBODY WILL DOMINATE EVERY YEAR ANYMORE. Those days are over. Yes, UF has one 2 in three years, but had a 3 or 4 loos season sandwiched in there. A team can be consistently good year in and year out, but can't dominate every single year. UF will have another stellar year this year, but next year will tell a tale. Tebow will be gone, and it will seriously hurt the Gators. It's no knock on Meyer's ability, no matter how good of a recruiter you are, YOU DON'T JUST REPLACE A TIM TEBOW. There's just not another one out there. We'll be on the upswing while UF is scrambling to replace the greatest player in their programs history.
As far as Coker is concerned, and the talk of him being out Ron Zook. UF would have benn successful with Zook, perhaps just as successful. Meyer's first NC came with Zooks players. UF fans, remember Chris Leak? Why do y'all try to airbrush him from history? That first NC was his, more so than Tebow's. Who's to say that Zook couldn't do the same thing if he had Tebow. Ain't he doing the same thing on a lesser scale with Juice Williams? This is not a knock on Meyer, he is a hell of a coach. I just thinknZook and Leak get a raw deal. Coker destroyed the program. Yes he had highly ranked recrruiting classes, lots of 4 and 5 star players from all over the country. But remember, a 3 star from Florida equals a 5 star from, say Kansas. That's how every coach since Schnellenbuger has done it, until Coker. Santana Moss caught one pass as a senior in high school, but Davis recognized a ballplayer when he saw one, Coker didn't. All Coker saw was rankings. 6'3 210 lbs. makes a 5 star wideout, but it don't make a ballplayer. Meyer knows this, he has an eye for talent, but like I said before, we'll see how this plays out without Tebow. He is the difference between UF and the rest of the SEC, they'll catch up once he's gone.
Sorry, I know i got to rambling.
Kindly refrain from imputing your own ignorance to UF. Gator Nation is, has been, and always will be, deeply grateful to Chris Leak for his contribution to our FB program. Where the hell you get this ridiculous notion that he's being "airbrushed" or whatever, is beyond comprehension; just some BS concoction by Gator haters. Leak is beloved in Gator Nation. Deal with it.
As for Zook winning a NC--right. Gators on his watch more often times than not, sputtered out by the end of the game. He was and is a players' coach; doesn't have the stomach to push his players to get the most out of them, and therefore doesn't have it in him to coach a champion. I liked Zook alot, but truth is truth. Meyer has 2 nc's in 3 years, because he gets the most out of his players. Zook is great at getting talented players to sign on, but not at getting them to play to their potential.
Coker may not be Butch Davis, but then neither is Randy Shannon. RS, like Zook, is a player's coach. B/t/w: Coker did one thing that Davis did not; he sealed the deal.
In fact, he sealed the deal 1.99 times! ;)
GO GATORS!!
Every team has their ignorant fans (which really makes up the majority), Florida is no different. Actually, UGA leads the nation in that area. Go to ESPN's blog and tell me there aren't alot of Gator fans who act like Leak didn't exist. I've seen enough of your posts to know you don't fall in that category, but all I hear about Tebow is HE won 2 NC's. That first one belonged to Leak. I seem to remember ALOT of backlash against Leak when Tebow came on board. Leak was the better man for the starting job when Tebow was a freshman. tebow was perfect at the time for what he was brought in to do.... run behind the right guard. Never quite figured out how nobody else caught on.
I didn't say Zook was as good a coach as Meyer, just asaying it's hard not to be successful with a Tebow in the backfield.
Backlash? Maybe a slight undercurrent, but hardly a backlash. Leak played conservatively; threw the ball out of bounds to avoid INT's, slid to avoid getting hit, things like that. Tebow came at opponents like a bull. That would motivate any croud--especially coming from a freshmen. That doesn't translate into distrust of Leak though; just excitement about the new guy, which has obviously panned out. I don't know anything about the posters on ESPN's blog, but the talk among the Gator faithful, has always been positive towards Leak, in my experience.
Re. Zook--no you didn't say he was as good a coach as Meyer; but you did suggest that Zook could have won a NC, based on the fact that Meyer did. That's just naive, and betrays "cane spoiliation" (my word for the phonomenum that b/c Miami won 5 NC's since '83, canes think NC's grow on trees, and that if you don't win one in a matter of 3 years, you suck). The rest of us know otherwise. NC's are a bitch to come by.
That '06 NC in particular was a patchwork of miracles--produced by desire and opportunity meeting several times. 3 blocked kicks v. SC in particular come to mind; a fumble by LSU at the end of the 1st half that changed to tone of the game; some other breaks. Zook's teams blow those opp's. No question. We probably don't even get those chances. Ergo, no NC. As for this year? Too speculative, since it had all Meyer's players.
Re. OSU: That was a great OSU team with Maurice--whatever his name is--and the 'canes lost McGahee with a lot of FB left in the game.
...and despite losing Willis, for 4 long seconds, Larry Coker had won his second NC in as many years at the helm, and had managed to preserve his winning streak.
GO GATORS!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=395...