Its about the money. Utah, even in a "year of years" did not fill their stadium every game. 45,000 people anymore gets no ones attention. Utah will have to start with the 2 for 1 and be willing to anti up in a larger way than they have. BYU can get teams now because for 25 years they've been doing this. 10 years is not a long time - Utah is an upstart.
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
Excluding Utah State,
From 2005 through 2008 Utah has played 8 games vs. BCS conference members and 3 vs non-BCS members. Two of those three are FCS teams and one is a loss to Boise State.
From 1995 through 1998 Utah played 5 games vs. BCS conference members and 3 vs. non-BCS conference members. Two of those non-BCS games where demolitions of Louisville, the other a loss to Boise State.
It looks like Utah has taken the new 12th game and added another BCS opponent per year. It also looks like Utah has stopped sheduling top non-BCS teams, preferring to get FCS teams.
Utah never would have been able to schedule Michigan or Notre Dame before the BCS bowl wins.
I just don't buy the argument that teams, other than Alabama and Florida, are afraid to play Utah.
OU_Ron
· 5 months ago
Did Alabama schedule to play Utah, or are you talking about the Sugar Bowl where they were matched because of their success last year..
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
I was saying Alabama and Florida are two schools I have heard from fans or infer from statements coaches made that do not want to play Utah in the near future.
Zac
· 5 months ago
Ben, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have a hard time believing that Saban, let alone Meyer, would be unwilling to at least entertain Utah in Tuscaloosa or Gainesville respectively. It just doesn't fit their M.O. Bama, after having been beaten, has always been a team just itching for pay-back. The Gators live for hosting a Non-BCS opponents. That said, it wouldn't surprise me to see a team or three that would fain the opportunity to play Utah now. I'm just not certain it's these 2.
I think WVU's schedule's over the next 2-3 years are locked, but that doesn't mean changes can't be made. While the 45,000 fan stadium is admittedly unattractive, Utah & WVU could come to a four year accord, as with Marshall. Two games are guaranteed home & home (game 1 at WVU, game 2 at Utah). Game three at WVU: The winner decides where the next game is played. So, at least one game is guaranteed to be played in Salt Lake City, with an opportunity to earn a 2nd. (Now, watch your guys offer it only to have WVU AD, "Fast Ed" Pastilong, turn it down.)
OU_Ron
· 5 months ago
Zac, I see you made it home safely, hope the show was good for you...
Zac
· 5 months ago
It was an interesting experiment, and I've decided I'll do it again. So, hopfully, I'll be seeing you again next year. When that happens, lunch will be on me.
Now, howzabout these Utes? Ya think the Sooners would be willing to play em?
OU_Ron
· 5 months ago
Yeah, I think we would, after all we scheduled Idaho St....arent they a neighbor of Utah..(_E=mc2_)
Jared74
· 5 months ago
Utah's stadium holds 45,017, and in 2008 averaged 45,542 or over 101% of capacity. That number was good enough for the IOC but not for most of FBS. The argument here is that Utah needs another 15,000 seats in order to yield a payout sufficient to attract bigger name teams. Why should a Texas visit Salt Lake City and receive 75% of what they would receive playing a closer team? Additionally, few schools have any interest in recruiting in Utah, so the only lure is the payout.
Dhdndnsz
· 5 months ago
Misinformed. Utah state dropped Utah from he schedule so that Utah can play notes dame, at Utah's request, not to avoid byu and Utah in the same season.
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
Utah did ask Utah State to move the date to add Notre Dame to their schedule but Utah State replied that they would be more interested in taking a few years off to get a more manageable schedule for where their program is today.
gatorhippy
· 5 months ago
Benny, you'll never get a home and away out of UF...
The expense of travelling out there would be similiar to the trip to 'Zona for the BCS CG...
Which was essentially a "break even" deal (not counting the crystal that was brought back) on a multi million dollar payout of somewhere around $15-17 million...
Even the trip to Miami this year cost nearly a million in simply travel costs and lodging...
Could the Utes afford to write a nearly five to ten million dollar check for UF's visit?
And even if they could...
Is that worth taking tens of millions in revenue out of UF's pockets and the folks making up the greater Hogtown economy?
FSU_Ben
· 5 months ago
I have a hard time imagining how UF traveling could be that expensive GH. I agree UF would NEVER go though. It's been some 25 years since a regular season game was played ooc by UF that went past the mississippi and not since a trip to play syracuse in the EARLY 90's has UF even left the state of florida OOC (regular season). They like the free wins and don't need big games to up the profile (obviously).
GH's point about the money they can make staying home I certainly buy whole heartedly. They keep it at home as much as possible and make HUGE cash, even inviting citidel to play. That is not a hypocritical critisism of the practice. I look forward to the FSU vs. University of Maine game next year!
As for Utah... I wouldn't want FSU to play Utah. Not because I'm afraid we would lose so much as I don't see any benefit to winning. I would hate to lose but be ho hum over winning. They were a great team last year and 2004 but even beating a less robust BYU would be a more "special" game. They are more storied a program in my book. I'm quite excited about it. Don't get me wrong, I would rather play 8 of the big 10 half the big 12 or nearly any SEC team but BYU should be a good game at a good point in two currently mediocre programs. I don't want to take anything from Utah's success I just don't find the matchup appealing.
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
Calling BYU more storied than Utah is fighting words.
Utah dominates the series all time. BYU's only glory days are the mid 80's.
BYU does have a national championship from a 1984 season where they were less impressive than Utah was in 2008.
As for the MWC vs. SEC fluff, conferences were made to avoid travel costs. MWC teams should play PAC 10, Big 12 and WAC teams. Maybe a C-USA west or Sun Belt team. Anything else is kind of silly, which I was attempting to be above
Transportation: $224,000; $138g's of which was in round trip air transport...
Lodging: $247,000...
Meals: $190,000...
Total: $661,000...
This doesn't even account for travel of the band & cheerleaders and their expenses...
Then figure that Miami is only 900 miles from Hogtown while Salt Lake City is just under 2000 miles away essentially doubling the cost of air transit of the players and staff while the ground transport of the equipment is more than likely changed to air transit as well because of the distance...
However, the team would more than likely save a few thousand on lodging and meals given they wouldn't be making a seven day trip to Utah but more of a three day (Thurs - Sat?) so it would balance out at around a cool million by the time you threw transport, lodging and meals in for the pep band and cheerleaders...
Then account for the lost revenue in ticket sales from selling out BHGS for the home contest at nearly 4 million in lost ticket sales...
Finally, an actual "appearance" fee of some sort needs to be charged since UF would be helping them sell out their stadium...
Yeah, a cool 5 million at the minimum would break UF even on what they would lose by giving up a home game and travelling out west...
There is just no incentive to play a regular season game "past the Mississippi" or by leaving "the state of Florida"...
And yeah, given the difficulty of traversing the SEC, the respect the conference commands in the media and the current system of selecting teams for the BCS CG NO SEC squad needs to travel far or even play a road OOC game against another BCS team...
Don't blame the Gators...
Blame the system...
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
Agreed. With the current system I want the SEC teams to play as few OOC top 25 teams as possible, excluding bowl games.
I would love to see the MWC and ACC or Big East play a few series though.
vtmechE
· 5 months ago
costs of these trips are a big issue, had a chat with john bahlein, who runs VT's AD with weaver, the trip to nebraska was almost at $1.5mil, and nebraska's boosters helped fund some of the cost to bring a big name school into lincoln, in fact, he reported that pac-10 and wac/mwc schools will be ruled out due to travel costs, we got k-state, ohio state, wisconsin, 'bama, pittsburgh, cincy, syracuse coming up, all in an effort 2 lower the cost of travel
in fact one of the reasons VT wanted to join the acc was to lower the plane trips, maryland, uva, the carolina schools, clemson, and GT are all bus rides
florida has a larger group to take with them, especially these larger staffs that do smaller minute things per game day, which is why the acc cut staff sizes after the spring meetings, on top of that, the program wants more from the trip, so pricier hotels would come into play (all for recruiting/pampering of players) etc etc
the mwc schools are, well, out west, it sucks for 'em, but the pac-10 and bigxii are their only options for bcs contenders ooc, and the best way to go for now is getting those few pac10 schools who are interested
Zac
· 5 months ago
AND, the cost is only gonna keep climbing, as long as these professional pud-wits keep "predicting" that gasoline will climb over $4.00/gal again. (You guyz know they're paid by the oil companies to do that, dontcha?)
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
If you are calling for double digit inflation for a few years nice the economy starts to pick up, gas would naturally double, as the dollar and the value of debts fall.
Inflation ... the governments way out of trillions of dollars of debt.
Tommy_Trojan
· 5 months ago
Ben, Ben, Ben:
What is the purpose of playing Utah in a home and home? Does Utah put 100,000 screamin' lunatics in the stands? Probably more like 50,000. Now, it is very clear that Utah is a very competitive football program. But, the only way that most of the "BIG TIME" Football Factories are gonna risk a loss, is if there is major cheese at the end of the Rainbow.
It's not a matter of nobody wanting to play Utah. I think it might have more to do with Utah wanting the home and home arrangement. There is no incentive for a Southern Cal to go into Utah and play before 50,000 peaceful mormons, when they can go into Columbus, and get spit on by more than 110,000 Trojan hating madmen. It's just better to risk a beatdown by the Bucks, for all that extra money, than it is to risk a loss to Utah for a lot less.
So, if your trying to paint the Utes as being feared - they are. But, it's only because that kinda game isn't worth playing in this day and age. You can thank the wonderful BCS system for these kind of events. It's just another byproduct of the current system. Any school might tend to lose thousands of dollars over a loss to Utah prior to "Bowl Pairing" day. Nobody wants to take those kinda games unless the money is all there. You already know the answer to your own questions. But, there it is anyway....
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
Did you even read my post?
My main point is that Utah's stadium does not allow Utah to have the ticket base to draw the larger teams that even BYU can draw.
Ben Prather
· 5 months ago
The cover to the Utah 2009 Media Guide is Awesome!
All Comments
From 2005 through 2008 Utah has played 8 games vs. BCS conference members and 3 vs non-BCS members. Two of those three are FCS teams and one is a loss to Boise State.
From 1995 through 1998 Utah played 5 games vs. BCS conference members and 3 vs. non-BCS conference members. Two of those non-BCS games where demolitions of Louisville, the other a loss to Boise State.
It looks like Utah has taken the new 12th game and added another BCS opponent per year. It also looks like Utah has stopped sheduling top non-BCS teams, preferring to get FCS teams.
Utah never would have been able to schedule Michigan or Notre Dame before the BCS bowl wins.
I just don't buy the argument that teams, other than Alabama and Florida, are afraid to play Utah.
I think WVU's schedule's over the next 2-3 years are locked, but that doesn't mean changes can't be made. While the 45,000 fan stadium is admittedly unattractive, Utah & WVU could come to a four year accord, as with Marshall. Two games are guaranteed home & home (game 1 at WVU, game 2 at Utah). Game three at WVU: The winner decides where the next game is played. So, at least one game is guaranteed to be played in Salt Lake City, with an opportunity to earn a 2nd. (Now, watch your guys offer it only to have WVU AD, "Fast Ed" Pastilong, turn it down.)
Now, howzabout these Utes? Ya think the Sooners would be willing to play em?
The expense of travelling out there would be similiar to the trip to 'Zona for the BCS CG...
Which was essentially a "break even" deal (not counting the crystal that was brought back) on a multi million dollar payout of somewhere around $15-17 million...
Even the trip to Miami this year cost nearly a million in simply travel costs and lodging...
Could the Utes afford to write a nearly five to ten million dollar check for UF's visit?
And even if they could...
Is that worth taking tens of millions in revenue out of UF's pockets and the folks making up the greater Hogtown economy?
GH's point about the money they can make staying home I certainly buy whole heartedly. They keep it at home as much as possible and make HUGE cash, even inviting citidel to play. That is not a hypocritical critisism of the practice. I look forward to the FSU vs. University of Maine game next year!
As for Utah... I wouldn't want FSU to play Utah. Not because I'm afraid we would lose so much as I don't see any benefit to winning. I would hate to lose but be ho hum over winning. They were a great team last year and 2004 but even beating a less robust BYU would be a more "special" game. They are more storied a program in my book. I'm quite excited about it. Don't get me wrong, I would rather play 8 of the big 10 half the big 12 or nearly any SEC team but BYU should be a good game at a good point in two currently mediocre programs. I don't want to take anything from Utah's success I just don't find the matchup appealing.
Utah dominates the series all time. BYU's only glory days are the mid 80's.
BYU does have a national championship from a 1984 season where they were less impressive than Utah was in 2008.
As for the MWC vs. SEC fluff, conferences were made to avoid travel costs. MWC teams should play PAC 10, Big 12 and WAC teams. Maybe a C-USA west or Sun Belt team. Anything else is kind of silly, which I was attempting to be above
Transportation: $224,000; $138g's of which was in round trip air transport...
Lodging: $247,000...
Meals: $190,000...
Total: $661,000...
This doesn't even account for travel of the band & cheerleaders and their expenses...
Then figure that Miami is only 900 miles from Hogtown while Salt Lake City is just under 2000 miles away essentially doubling the cost of air transit of the players and staff while the ground transport of the equipment is more than likely changed to air transit as well because of the distance...
However, the team would more than likely save a few thousand on lodging and meals given they wouldn't be making a seven day trip to Utah but more of a three day (Thurs - Sat?) so it would balance out at around a cool million by the time you threw transport, lodging and meals in for the pep band and cheerleaders...
Then account for the lost revenue in ticket sales from selling out BHGS for the home contest at nearly 4 million in lost ticket sales...
Finally, an actual "appearance" fee of some sort needs to be charged since UF would be helping them sell out their stadium...
Yeah, a cool 5 million at the minimum would break UF even on what they would lose by giving up a home game and travelling out west...
There is just no incentive to play a regular season game "past the Mississippi" or by leaving "the state of Florida"...
And yeah, given the difficulty of traversing the SEC, the respect the conference commands in the media and the current system of selecting teams for the BCS CG NO SEC squad needs to travel far or even play a road OOC game against another BCS team...
Don't blame the Gators...
Blame the system...
I would love to see the MWC and ACC or Big East play a few series though.
in fact one of the reasons VT wanted to join the acc was to lower the plane trips, maryland, uva, the carolina schools, clemson, and GT are all bus rides
florida has a larger group to take with them, especially these larger staffs that do smaller minute things per game day, which is why the acc cut staff sizes after the spring meetings, on top of that, the program wants more from the trip, so pricier hotels would come into play (all for recruiting/pampering of players) etc etc
the mwc schools are, well, out west, it sucks for 'em, but the pac-10 and bigxii are their only options for bcs contenders ooc, and the best way to go for now is getting those few pac10 schools who are interested
Inflation ... the governments way out of trillions of dollars of debt.
What is the purpose of playing Utah in a home and home? Does Utah put 100,000 screamin' lunatics in the stands? Probably more like 50,000. Now, it is very clear that Utah is a very competitive football program. But, the only way that most of the "BIG TIME" Football Factories are gonna risk a loss, is if there is major cheese at the end of the Rainbow.
It's not a matter of nobody wanting to play Utah. I think it might have more to do with Utah wanting the home and home arrangement. There is no incentive for a Southern Cal to go into Utah and play before 50,000 peaceful mormons, when they can go into Columbus, and get spit on by more than 110,000 Trojan hating madmen. It's just better to risk a beatdown by the Bucks, for all that extra money, than it is to risk a loss to Utah for a lot less.
So, if your trying to paint the Utes as being feared - they are. But, it's only because that kinda game isn't worth playing in this day and age. You can thank the wonderful BCS system for these kind of events. It's just another byproduct of the current system. Any school might tend to lose thousands of dollars over a loss to Utah prior to "Bowl Pairing" day. Nobody wants to take those kinda games unless the money is all there. You already know the answer to your own questions. But, there it is anyway....
My main point is that Utah's stadium does not allow Utah to have the ticket base to draw the larger teams that even BYU can draw.