Fanblogs.com - Latest Comments in Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

1Tomcat — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 04:09:12 -0000

Hey Zac lets not start another daisy chain
Texas beat Texas Tech
OK ST beat Texas Tech
Texas beat OK st
Texas Tech beats OU
OU beat Texas
Colo beat OU
Texas beat IA st
IA st beat Colo
OU beat Missu
Missu beat Ark
Ark beat LSU
ILL beat OSU
Missu beat ILL
App st beat Mich
Mich beat Fla
Stanford beat USC
TCU beat Stanford
Texas beat TCU
A&M beat UL Monroe
UL Monroe beat Bama
Pitt beat WVU
Texas beat AZ st
BU beat Rice
Rice beat S Miss
Troy beat OK State

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Regan — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:55:48 -0000

My example to defend my earlier statements is: 2005 FSU.

They made it to 7-1 and clinched the ACC Atlantic; then lost 3 straight games, but managed to beat VT to get a BCS Berth. I point out when arguing against a (true) playoff that if all is based on Conference Champions, it’s entirely possible that in 2005 FSU could have run the table and become a 4-Loss National Champ.

I’d rather have a 1-Loss Kansas that placed 3rd in the Big 12 than a 4-Loss National Champ. That’s my opinion…

I’ll take your points one at a time:

2003/4 – I’m not certain which year you’re referring to; OU lost to LSU in ’03 and SCAL in ’04. SCAL was the odd man out in ’03, and AUB was in ’04. In both cases, all three teams that were vying for the two spots had the same number of losses (1-Loss in ’03 and 0-Losses in ’04).

Thus, my #1 criteria was met in both years with no problems, as the criteria itself doesn’t care WHO the teams are, so long as they have either 0-Losses or 1-Loss.

The exact same scenario existed in 2006, when FLA jumped MICH to play OHST in the Title Game. Both FLA and MICH had 1 loss – no problem. FLA jumped MICH for reasons external to the number of losses. Had MICH had only 1 loss and every other team in the country had 2+ Losses, I could have dealt with an OHST-MICH rematch.

I agree wholeheartedly that Conference Championships are a great weed-out, and I have harked on that numerous times.

However, there is a degree of inherent weeding-out by combining my #1 and #2 clauses.

The ONLY way I would part with the #2 clause is if a situation arose like the one last year did, where a 2-Loss team appears in a NC game – I said Kansas because I was desperate for an alternative to Hawaii, given the latter’s poor Bowl performance.

My plan had OHST playing HAW. I had to find some way to square that.... Since we agree 100% in the importance of Clause #2, I owed ya an explanation. :)

CFB is so intense because and only because every game matters as much as it does. One Loss puts national title aspirations straight into life-support. Two Losses should be a death knell to those aspirations.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

TampaGator — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:51:59 -0000

I'm with the Srutinizer on this one.

Your #1 being more important than #2 is the rationale that had OU playing against (and getting their asses kicked inside out by) USCw, instead of--who was it, LSU?

...it's the same rationale that ALMOST sent a 1 loss Michigan to re-play OSU in '06, instead of UF (comparable records, disregard confrence championship status...). UM of course got dismantled by USCw...you know the rest.

Conference Championships are the FIRST weed out. Think of the possibility of having a 2nd or 3rd place team in a conference be declared National Champion? That would be a farce beyond anything we've ever seen to date.

A two loss conference champ as NC is no big deal; it's like having a AL team win the World Series though they had an inferior record than the NL team they beat. No big deal. Champ v. champ.

Now how about the Second place team in the AL beats the NL Champ--where the hell does that leave you? Second place team in NFC beats AFC champ--again, where's that leave you? That's why both of those leagues go champ v. champ.

A one loss, 2nd place team in conference as "National Champ"--simply defies logic. Even if a 3 loss conference champ wins the MNC, at least there's no one in their conference who can claim superiority over the National Champ.

Point bieng: it is a logical impossibility to pretend to be the best in the universe, when you can't logically claim to be the best in a sub-universe of said universe.

Champ v. Champ. Everyhing else is secondary.

GO GATORS!!

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Regan — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:03:42 -0000

Hey, you're right about that 100%.

I only put Kansas in there as an alternative to WAC Champ Hawaii, and there is some justification for this given Kansas' performance in the Orange Bowl to beat ACC Champ Virginia Tech.

As I have stated on many, many, many occasions on Playoff Threads, I have only 2x Qualifications for who deserves to play for a national championship:

#1: Teams must have either 0-Losses or 1-Loss
#2: Teams must be Conference Champions

#1 is more important to me than #2; but both are important. Very important.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

The_Central_Scrutinizer — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:06:43 -0000

How cheapened is the sport if it gets into the popular mindset that you can ride a weak schedule into a 1-loss record, place 3rd in your conference and still contend for the crystal? I contend that the "Popular Mindset", as represented by 120 some-odd active coaches and pedigreed football experts, voted rather overwhelmingly to pair Champions in spite of battle scars rather than pretty records.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

blackdawg — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:11:25 -0000

I've heard that rumor before.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

1Tomcat — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:43:45 -0000

Hey blackdawg Didn't know bout that story, but I know how it used to work down here two words Pontiac Firebird

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

1Tomcat — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:33:34 -0000

Hey JB I like LSU, but I dont really understand your statement-that Missu dropped the ball? Missu had 2- losses LSU had 2-losses KU had 1 loss UH had 0 losses
Yall won the MNC OK and yall had a great season thats it
The OSU lost to LSU & ILL
LSU lost to Ark & KY
Missu beat ARk and beat ILL Two loss teams-very competative
More of an arguement for a CFB bowl playoff

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Regan — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:36:47 -0000

Kansas was a 1-loss team; the only other 1-loss team besides Ohio State.

There is a historical context to my argument - you lose twice, you shouldn't play for the National Championship. It's never been an issue until 2007. Now, I am hoping that that mythical 'barrier' hasn't gotten into the spirit of the sport.

In CFB, every game matters. If it gets into the popular mindset that you can blow it not once, but twice and still make the NC game, then the sport has been cheapened.

It has nothing to do with 2007. It is a thread of the game itself I am pointing out.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Regan — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:32:13 -0000

TE, apologies for hitting close to home, but I stand by my statement for one reason: I don't believe any two-loss team should be a national champion.

"National Champion" means different things to different people; some believe it means 'who the best team was'. That's fair. To me, however, it is a statement of the entire body of work for the whole season - who went through a gauntlet of quality competition either unscathed or only one slip-up (at most).

That's my opinion, and frankly the way CFB has crowned it's national champions for over 100 years. It's the same reason why I see LSU as the 2003 champ over Southern Cal - they both had 1-loss, but LSU played more quality opponents.

Sorry, but where it counts - the record, Ohio State should have played either Hawaii or Kansas. The only reason why Hawaii is on the table is because they won their conference and there were neither 0- nor 1- loss teams out there.

That's my opinion...feel free to make gumbo sandwich comments. :)

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

1Tomcat — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:23:58 -0000

Clemson Joe He is on CSTV-now known as CBS College they broadcast alot of C-USA games and a few MWC games. They actually do a much better job than the ABC/ESPN guys IMO. If you dont have that channel get it- a must for CFB fans.
adios Tomcat

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Zac — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:31:47 -0000

Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Zac — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:13:32 -0000

"BTW FSU did purty good last year with wins against Bama and Colo- ha ha"

Interesting point, TC, but as I recall, KS St beat TX in Austin before loosing the rest of their games. As for FSU, they managed to beat CO in Boulder; something OK couldn't do (another team which beat your Long Horns). It was indeed a crazy year.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Zac — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:08:58 -0000

Now, now, TE, LSU didn't exactly own OSU for the whole 60 minutes. LSU spotted OSU 10 points before going on a 31 pt tear. After that it was coast-down time, given OSU couldn't get any closer than 14.

Look, given LSU was placed in the NC game against one of only 2 one-loss teams (KS only had 1 loss.), and given they won, ya haffta say they deserved it. However, if ever there was a year a mini-play-off (1-4) should have been played that was it. That, however, is a subject for another debate.

I am curious about one thing. Had Boise St played and beaten OSU in January 2007, would we be saying they didn't deserve it either?

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

PittsburghTiger — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:58:20 -0000

That loss to BYU in the opener began Pitt's descent into too many years of crappy ball. If I remember correctly it was a late pass from Bosco.

I think Pitt was about 14th all-time in victories heading into the 1984 season. They are not there anymore.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

TampaGator — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:12:15 -0000

On second thought, I think they may have included a scene along those lines...

...guees I'll just have to watch it again. It was a great movie; Tom Berenger did a great job as the Bear.

..but the point stands; Pell learned how to "attract" talent from his mentor. Apparently, he was quite the student--he learned his craft so well, that his former employer (UA) knew exactly where to direct the bloodhounds to start sniffing (for some inexplicable reason, the words "deal" and "immunity" come screaming to mind...). Perhaps a more astute and innovative cheater would have deviated enough from the original game plan, so as not to be so easily traced.

Oh well; all's well that ends well. It was a painfully expensive lesson, but it stuck--and (indirectly) paved the way for hiring Steve Spurrier, and it rendered us hypersentifive to all things NCAA (which, b/t/w, cost Galen Hall his job).

GO GATORS!!

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

War_Eagle_Atlanta — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:58:20 -0000

Bales of hay dropped from planes? Why, that could kill somebody...

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

TampaGator — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:43:56 -0000

Naw; just saw the movie, and I don't recall any such scenes.

Figures they'd clean it up (i.e.--compromise the truth), so as not to blemish the Bear's image. We wouldn't want that now, would we?

GO GATORS!!

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

blackdawg — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:29:34 -0000

You ever read "The Junction Boys" it mentions, they would stuff bales of hay with money, wrapped with the school flag and drop it from planes in the front yard of prospects. Texas and Texas A & M battling for recruits.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

Ben Prather — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:47:27 -0000

I am definitely not a common man, and have proved my lack of common sense.

More of an odd ball with a screw loose.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

aVoiceInSC — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:37:40 -0000

I always liked his former counterpart, former Nebraska linebacker Trev Alberts. I heard that he got axed for complaining that Corso and Herbstreit get all the fun and credit, but I don't know for sure. He lives down in Augusta I believe, but I haven't seen or heard anything from him since then. They really should bring him back.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

aVoiceInSC — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:30:19 -0000

I agree, It is very wrong.

I'll take Ford over Pell any day.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

aVoiceInSC — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:28:04 -0000

Absolutely man. TTT is much better now than it was when I was there. I have enjoyed it the past few times that I've been. Backstreets is great if you enjoy "finer" beers, but it's a hippie place so the scenery isn't that great. Keith Street has some of the best food in town and boasts a pretty solid drink selection as well. I'm sure you know about the Esso. It's pretty difficult to get in and out of on game days but it's a good time. TD's is a mainstay, but I never really like it that much. Mellow Mushroom is very difficult to get into as well (because of its proximity to the stadium, much like the Esso Club) but that's one of my favorites. By the way, Ancheaux's has a phenomenal wrap (Moe's style, but Moe's is child's play compared to Ancheaux's) that is great for soaking up the alcohol.

Usually I don't go to the bars when I go up there anymore. We just tailgate. However for the rare occasion that I do, we go to Keith Street to get something to eat and drink in relative peace, and then we walk over to TTT, Backstreets, Esso, or Mellow to pregame it.

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

War_Eagle_Atlanta — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:03:08 -0000

Ben Prather, is that you?

Re: Who are the most undeserving National Champions?

TampaGator — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:59:13 -0000

"...suspension...for recruiting violations...", compliments of good ol' Charlie Pell, RIP.

Yeah, we got summa' that. Here's the part that sticks in my craw about that whole mess: guess who turned us in?

Ala-f$%&n-bama....the very program from whence cheat'n Charlie dun learnt his trade. Don't get me wrong; we got what we had com'n to us; we bought every bit of that kick in the nuts the NCAA layed on us....

...but St. Paul "Bear" Bryant's name goes in history annals, virginal and unblemished, while his prodigy's is smeared for eternity.

That's just wrong.

GO GATORS!!